NON-MFC: Round 22, 2022

[spirit of norm smith 16,459]

Simply Max King lost it for the saints. 0.5.
Lost confidence? His technique was flawed.  Leaning back. Too casual.  
 

Heartbreaking for their supporters.  I was even getting angry at how simple shots were missed.

 

Professional full time footballers (athletes) paid big $$$ to kick a footy 25 metres through two wooden sticks. And they can’t. Ffs. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,833]

How good was Rayner tonight and how ordinary were Brisbane?

[deebunked 285]

12 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Yeah, but you want to go to see them at the G yeah? Enjoy the experience?

Youre  correct,  however Melbourne must finish  4th so we take Geelong  at the MCG.  Its called September finals. We will win that game. You want to play Swans at the SCG in finals woth all the baggage that goes with it?  You might be right. I'll take Geelong at the G.

[dazzledavey36 54,942]

Another reason why Ratten is delusional.

I would kill for someone of Matty Lloyd's ilk in helping Sam Weideman and Jacob Van Rooyen about forward craft or even with our goal kicking.

 

[dee-tox 4,835]

26 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm not even talking about that..

If you and the 3 others who liked it would have any small idea you would know I'm talking about his coaching career thus far at St Kilda.  Max King has nothing to do with this.

As a collective, his record at St Kilda has been poor. Their recruitment has been a shambles and they are simply no where near challenging anytime soon. Their depth is made up of recycled players who are handy in playing a role against bottom 4 teams but steuggle against the rest.

There's going to be a significant drop next year and I'll be surprised if Ratten last the journey.

So what I know of Ratten is he was a brilliant midfield coach at Melbourne under Daniher. A premiership winning senior assistant at Hawthorn. Did a relatively good job at Carlton all things considered and at the Saints saw them play finals for the first time in eight years. I agree with you on some of the list management decision (Hill, Crouch, Jones, etc) but the blame shouldn't be all on him.  Same coach that has some of the kids (Wanganeen Milera, Windhagen, etc) playing decent football. 

And by the way, if you're resorting to ad hominem attacks after a relatively innocuous comment (saying if I had any small idea) your argument can't be too sound or you have a few issues! I think it could be the latter.

[Spargonicus 539]

Bad kicking loses matches. Missing easy goals, especially set shots can be damaging on so many levels.

kills momentum, esp with the 6/6/6 rule, where you can get on a run. Gives the possession back to the opposition (kick out), where they can control tempo for a bit. Hurts morale esp with multiple missed shots, and then the team has to get back on the horse doing lots of defensive running.

going coast to coast for a 12 pt turnaround is even worse. Happened at least twice last night.

Get the few easy ones, St Kilda wins that, no problem. Like us vs Collingwood.

[BDA 22,755]

8 hours ago, Redleg said:

We could still end up at the SCG if Swans gain a couple of %.

Swans have an excellent record at the MCG. Not the end of the world if we have to play them up there

[BDA 22,755]

9 hours ago, mauriesy said:

Watts was a good kick for goal.

I'd have a lot more confidence if Wattsey was lining up for goals than most of the current team

[—coach— 3,496]

8 hours ago, deebunked said:

Youre  correct,  however Melbourne must finish  4th so we take Geelong  at the MCG.  Its called September finals. We will win that game. You want to play Swans at the SCG in finals woth all the baggage that goes with it?  You might be right. I'll take Geelong at the G.

With our away record this year, I’m not too worried about playing anywhere really, it’s the MCG where we’ve struggled in the second half of the season. But who knows what to expect from us from here, could be brilliant and it won’t matter where we play, or could be patchy and we get rolled when we shouldn’t.

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,246]

2 hours ago, Spargonicus said:

Bad kicking loses matches. Missing easy goals, especially set shots can be damaging on so many levels.

kills momentum, esp with the 6/6/6 rule, where you can get on a run. Gives the possession back to the opposition (kick out), where they can control tempo for a bit. Hurts morale esp with multiple missed shots, and then the team has to get back on the horse doing lots of defensive running.

going coast to coast for a 12 pt turnaround is even worse. Happened at least twice last night.

Get the few easy ones, St Kilda wins that, no problem. Like us vs Collingwood.

They are actually 11 point turnarounds.

Sorry, I'll see myself out.

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

Two things I noticed from last night.

1. However bad our MFCSS gets at times, we should all be thanking our lucky stars or deity of choice that we we aren’t Saint supporters. That is one tough gig.
2. Unlike many clubs, StK don’t seem to be able to bring the best out of players they trade for.  Very few playing last night seem to have improved since moving there.  Higgins, Howard, Crouch, Hill, Jones, Wood all arguably played better before moving to the saints as did Hannebery and Ryder who didn’t play last night.  Long term “good” teams improve players they trade for.

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

9 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

Two things I noticed from last night.

1. However bad our MFCSS gets at times, we should all be thanking our lucky stars or deity of choice that we we aren’t Saint supporters. That is one tough gig.
2. Unlike many clubs, StK don’t seem to be able to bring the best out of players they trade for.  Very few playing last night seem to have improved since moving there.  Higgins, Howard, Crouch, Hill, Jones, Wood all arguably played better before moving to the saints as did Hannebery and Ryder who didn’t play last night.  Long term “good” teams improve players they trade for.

agreed on 1, but i think their best players remain imports

i'd say some have got better since getting to the aints, including some you mentioned - steele has become their best player, by some margin, while howard and higgins have got more playing time and thus got better and wood is a better player at the aints than he was at the kangas

what they've definitely done is recruit a heap of players past their prime and expected them to be key players - hannebury, hill crouch, jones - or as stop-gap measures who are still miles better than their own developed secondary options, like ryder

their development of talent has been pretty bad throughout the modern era 

[Maldonboy38 6,403]

I rate Ratten highly as a coach, and believe both St Kilda's system and their basic personnel is fine. They lack a dominant gorilla back man and have too many B grade midfielders with the same skill set. 

They have been monstered by injuries in 2022, and by appalling trade decisions over a 4 year period. 

As for goal kicking - every AFL team is having the same problem: i.e. losing games by doing everything right to win but missing goals. The 18-players-all-playing-midfield mindset of modern footy, where a network of players moves all over the ground in a defensive grid, is destroying the glorious art of goal kicking. But it is fixable. Look at Fritsch. Max King is a gun with a fixable problem.

[george_on_the_outer 7,591]

23 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

agreed on 1, but i think their best players remain imports

i'd say some have got better since getting to the aints, including some you mentioned - steele has become their best player, by some margin, while howard and higgins have got more playing time and thus got better and wood is a better player at the aints than he was at the kangas

what they've definitely done is recruit a heap of players past their prime and expected them to be key players - hannebury, hill crouch, jones - or as stop-gap measures who are still miles better than their own developed secondary options, like ryder

their development of talent has been pretty bad throughout the modern era 

Fairly good assessment there WSW.  

It was probably a good move by Ratten to bring in a lot of experience, since the Aints were so bad, and had little talent available.  It keeps the fans happy and gives them hope, and keeps him in a job....in the short term!

But as you say, Crouch, Jones, Hannebury and Hill are all past their best, and probably the same for Ryder.  Plus these players are costing a bucketload.  Then when you have Howard, Higgins and Wood in the side,  1/3 of their match day side is "blow ins".

Big contrast to what Melbourne did by bringing in only a few older outsiders like Lewis, Cross, Vince, to be able to provide stability while the younger talent develops.  Then you bring in one or two ready made players with 5 years plus careers in them, but over a couple of years, and to fill specific roles.  May, Lever, Hibberd, Melksham. 

At the moment those younger Saints players can't get in the side, or St.Kilda don't have the draft picks left to be able to access and develop talent long term.  Now they face another cliff as these older players drop off even further. 

When that happens, I'm with @dazzledavey36...Ratten won't last, and the cycle will be repeated at St.Kilda.

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by george_on_the_outer

[layzie 33,805]

That was some dumb shiz the Saints pulled last night.

Edited August 13, 2022 by layzie

[Redleg 40,925]

1 hour ago, Winners at last said:

They are actually 11 point turnarounds.

Sorry, I'll see myself out.

Not when you kick them out on the full.

[deebunked 285]

The saints need to return to Moorabbin so they can drench  the ground  overnight and turn it into a mud heap before games. Even then they were still putrid in the 70's and 80's but atleast they'll have somekind of home ground advantage. They have nothing at the moment. Cant even beat Lions in Melbourne. Sad.

Marvel is their 'home ground' ??

[leave it to deever 17,511]

14 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Something about Max's kicking for easy set shots at goal 🤔.

[censored] [censored] [censored] !!!

Yea...no point him marking up fwd the way he's kicking. Bring it to ground yep but we want GOALS.

I thought he turned it all around against cars h and a game and prelim and seemed to love kicking them...almost skipping after giving high 5s.

Gone back to his old poor  self of set shots. 

If he is accurate it makes a huge difference

 

I wouldn't want him kicking after the siren for a win.

 

Other than that I feel bad for the criticism of the big guy who bleeds red and blue.

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

agreed on 1, but i think their best players remain imports

i'd say some have got better since getting to the aints, including some you mentioned - steele has become their best player, by some margin, while howard and higgins have got more playing time and thus got better and wood is a better player at the aints than he was at the kangas

what they've definitely done is recruit a heap of players past their prime and expected them to be key players - hannebury, hill crouch, jones - or as stop-gap measures who are still miles better than their own developed secondary options, like ryder

their development of talent has been pretty bad throughout the modern era 

I had forgotten about Steele and he is a good player but I don’t think he has exceeded expectations that were on him when he came in from GWS where it was the extremely stacked midfield that was denying him opportunity.  Howard’s trajectory was AA when at Port where he was in the leadership group (and captained once).  Higgins while sometimes very good is very inconsistent, no different to when he was at Richmond.  And looking at Wood’s averages for goals and disposals there is very little reason to say he is now a better player than at North (1.2 goals and 12.9 disposals at North, 0.6 goals and 14.5 disposals at Saints).  No one will be writing articles about any of them when they retire saying how their move to the Saints was the making of their careers.

[1964_2 2,357]

Is fun watching “Naughts” knowing he will be at the mfc next year.

Imagination running wild, trying to work out if he will fit in best with BB, TMac, Hogan or Larkey  :) 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

How did we lose to the Dogs? 

[Diamond_Jim 12,588]

2 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

How did we lose to the Dogs? 

was about to ask the same thing

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

2 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

was about to ask the same thing

Wouldn’t it be funny if they lost today…Blues would breathe a little easier.

[BDA 22,755]

Giants the better team but their forward 50 delivery letting them down

[deebunked 285]

How many sides have played  their A game against us this season then they turn putrid the next week and some for weeks after.

There's been a few of them.

What the hell has happened to the crows?

Theyre almost as irrelevant as GWS.

Played in a GF not long ago. North might knock them off at AO today.