Team first - for certain a goal

[He de mon 925]

Given that our goal kicking hasn’t been great this year, and Fritta is generally pretty accurate, I wonder if his instructions have been to back himself if he has the ball. 

[MrFreeze 1,951]

Agree with both sides

The individual incidents look very greedy and are not team first

However, overall Bayley is a great team first player who not only kicks most of our goals, he also sets up plenty of them too 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

3 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

It's got nothing to do with him being a favourite.

I just think he is being singled out for ridiculous reasons. 

Is Pickett selfish if he tries to kick a goal from the pocket? Is Trac selfish for attempting a set shot when he's generally really poor at them? Is it selfish of Oliver to try a blind handball? Is May selfish if he tries marking the footy at FB instead of punching the ball?

These guys make hundreds of split second decisions in the heat of battle. Everyone was so mad at Tmac for  marking Harmes' shot on goal earlier this year, but would have been angrier if that kick bounces in front of the line. 

How often do you yell "just go for goal" because we try passing it inside 50 and stuff around with it so much?

Fritsch is an elite medium forward. He has proven himself time and time again and delivered a performance not seen for a decade in a grand final. So he chose not to handball inside 50 a couple of times. Lets hang him for it and make all our players perfect robots. 

Everyone loves him when he kicks great goals. He is an opportunistic forward and sometimes he will make poor decisions. He is hardly alone. 

 

Edit: as for the media, please give me a break. Two weeks ago Ginnivin is a ducking cheat. This week he's being robbed of free kicks. The media are a bunch of flogs trying to feel space with rubbish. 

It's hard to argue with someone who compares Fritsch's isolated blunders with the examples you've given. The differences are so many that I can't be bothered detailing each one. 

All I know is that if you've played the game to a reasonably high level, you know when a team mate is in the right to take a shot at goal (even with a free player open depending on where they are) and when a player is not in the right position. 

Supporters miss nuance all the time and footy. And maybe you are in that category. 

Your examples don't make sense because they lack the understanding and detail of what Fritsch did wrong. 

And if people thinking I'm upping myself then go for it. But you should remember you're ignoring ex-AFL players talking about this in the media, including Jordan Lewis. 

If the general consensus from past players at the elite level is that Fritsch's selfishness is a bit of a concern but supporters on Demonland think otherwise, I know who the silly ones are. 

Fritsch needs to pull his head in. Plain and simple. 

 

[Brenno 289]

If Bailey played for any other club, every single demonlander would be agree, Fritch is hungry and regularly burns his team mates. 

I know this is a Dees fan forum but the bias in the thread is unreal. I'm reading posts comparing him to Petracca taking set shots, ridiculous jibes at the media, Coaches instructions to take shots from anywhere! These are all just excuses and deflections from a flaw bailey  has let slip into his game. Clearly this is an issues that the team and Bailey need to address. 

Sometime we have to take of our Dees glasses to see the truth! 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

21 minutes ago, He de mon said:

Given that our goal kicking hasn’t been great this year, and Fritta is generally pretty accurate, I wonder if his instructions have been to back himself if he has the ball. 

Yes, this would definitely be part of his thinking and part of why he refuses to look to pass. 

We're a team playing patchy and desperate footy and Fritsch is trying too hard to take it upon himself to kick the goal, no matter the cost. 

As I said, it's emblematic of where our team is at presently. 

I don't think anyone feels that confident at the moment, we're scrapping wins and it's getting to the pointy end with top four we'll and truly on the line. 

[dazzledavey36 54,337]

20 minutes ago, Brenno said:

If Bailey played for any other club, every single demonlander would be agree, Fritch is hungry and regularly burns his team mates. 

I know this is a Dees fan forum but the bias in the thread is unreal. I'm reading posts comparing him to Petracca taking set shots, ridiculous jibes at the media, Coaches instructions to take shots from anywhere! These are all just excuses and deflections from a flaw bailey  has let slip into his game. Clearly this is an issues that the team and Bailey need to address. 

Sometime we have to take of our Dees glasses to see the truth! 

Bang on..

[Jaded No More 68,867]

1 hour ago, Brenno said:

If Bailey played for any other club, every single demonlander would be agree, Fritch is hungry and regularly burns his team mates. 

I know this is a Dees fan forum but the bias in the thread is unreal. I'm reading posts comparing him to Petracca taking set shots, ridiculous jibes at the media, Coaches instructions to take shots from anywhere! These are all just excuses and deflections from a flaw bailey  has let slip into his game. Clearly this is an issues that the team and Bailey need to address. 

Sometime we have to take of our Dees glasses to see the truth! 

I never suggested that I like Fritta burning teammates, nor that I think the club hasn't spoken to him about it.

All I am saying is that the pile on both on here and in the media has been so blown out of proportion, as if all Fritsch does is take shots from 80m in the pocket when he has 4 teammates open in the goal square every single week.

He had 10 score involvements and 3 goal assists on the weekend. Kosi had 0 goal assists and 8 involvements as a comparison, and I think we all agree that Kosi was BOG. 

So to brand him a selfish player is just not correct. Sometimes he doesn't do the most team orientated thing in front of goal, and I have no doubt his teammates and the coaches let him know about it. But he is not some show pony who cares only about himself, and to suggest otherwise is to really diminish what he has achieved in his career to date. 

[Jaded No More 68,867]

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

It's hard to argue with someone who compares Fritsch's isolated blunders with the examples you've given. The differences are so many that I can't be bothered detailing each one. 

 

 

I am not here to argue with you. We have different opinions.

I just don't feel the need to be as arrogant as you are when presenting my opinion, as if who you are or what you've done really matters to anybody on here. But you please yourself. 

[daisycutter 29,605]

i'm sitting on the fence here. some good arguments on both sides

but think of this, if with the 4 recent cases, if he had slotted say 2 of them, and i'm sure he should have, would we be having this discussion?

the tracc one was the most blatant, but he was only about 7 metres from the goal post and might have just misjudged the likelihood of being tackled, but he still should have handballed to tracc. those close to goal, congested possessions are always panic ridden decisions  

[Demon3 2,541]

28th in the competition for goal assists.... but selfish...

A couple have been ordinary,  but its so overblown.

[pitmaster 3,513]

15 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Hahaha. 

Talk about clutching at straws. 

It was an elementary drop punt to an open player. 

Check the video. There was an opposition defender ideally situated to pressure Spargs between him and Fritter.

[58er 6,399]

On 7/18/2022 at 2:33 PM, deegirl said:

Fritsch is a hard player to love and this is one of the big reasons why.  And yes, I'm well aware of how valuable he is, but he's never going to be a favourite of mine.

You can't be serious ? 
Didn't  you love him after his great 6 goals effort in the GF? 
Well he has occasionally lost his judgement and team plays temporarily but that will stop hopefully now after about 4 bad examples.

He is too smart a footballer to keep up this. 

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

17 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

It's hard to argue with someone who compares Fritsch's isolated blunders with the examples you've given. The differences are so many that I can't be bothered detailing each one. 

All I know is that if you've played the game to a reasonably high level, you know when a team mate is in the right to take a shot at goal (even with a free player open depending on where they are) and when a player is not in the right position. 

Supporters miss nuance all the time and footy. And maybe you are in that category. 

Your examples don't make sense because they lack the understanding and detail of what Fritsch did wrong. 

And if people thinking I'm upping myself then go for it. But you should remember you're ignoring ex-AFL players talking about this in the media, including Jordan Lewis. 

If the general consensus from past players at the elite level is that Fritsch's selfishness is a bit of a concern but supporters on Demonland think otherwise, I know who the silly ones are. 

Fritsch needs to pull his head in. Plain and simple. 

 

Pro tip*: You won’t win too many arguments by telling people on this forum that you know more than them because you played “at a reasonably high level” at some stage. Unless you’re Gary Ablett, nobody’s that interested  

*if you’ll excuse the expression  

 

 

 

[Kit Walker 225]

I think it's an occasional issue with decision making not selfishness, Just exacerbated by it being in the forward 50.

Ultimately, he's 11th in the Coleman on the same goals as Harry McKay and 10 clear of our next best goalkicker, and 3rd for score involvements after Oliver and Petracca. Absolutely should be a guaranteed starter every week.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

15 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

Pro tip*: You won’t win too many arguments by telling people on this forum that you know more than them because you played “at a reasonably high level” at some stage. Unless you’re Gary Ablett, nobody’s that interested  

*if you’ll excuse the expression  

 

 

 

It's relevant on many levels across many categories. Including footy. 

I don't care what it sounds like. 

And if ex-players at AFL level are in agreement, how do you think it makes the forum supporters of Fritsch look? 

Pretty silllllly. 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

7 hours ago, pitmaster said:

Check the video. There was an opposition defender ideally situated to pressure Spargs between him and Fritter.

Hahaha. 

It's a chip kick over the top to a free player pretty much in the square. Fritsch is on an angle. Spargo has enough separation on the opposition player and should have been used for a guaranteed goal. 

Unbelievable what people see. 

 

 

[Deetention 86]

I think all our forwards need to up there decision making, not just Fritsch.
 

- Fritsch is the obvious stand out having shots from the pocket when a handball is on, Geelong are the best at this and it shows why they sit on top. Fritsch needs to change this type play ASAP...

- I’ll use BB as an example but he is not alone. Our forwards need to lead to the ball kicker a lot more... our forwards are so non-committed. It’s seems to be kick it long to a contest or directly to opposition from our midfield. It is a mindset that needs to change. Midfield to Forward connection is very ordinary.

- Kosi played his best game last week. However, I believe our crumbing forwards have been poor most games and out of position. Tackling is ok and better in some games. But they need to be more damaging on the scoreboard.

 

[jnrmac 20,055]

ALL players need to play team first or the magic stops

No exceptions. Fritsch is not exempt and is a repeat offender

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

It's relevant on many levels across many categories. Including footy. 

I don't care what it sounds like. 

And if ex-players at AFL level are in agreement, how do you think it makes the forum supporters of Fritsch look? 

Pretty silllllly. 

You’re making a very basic point - being selfish in a team-led activity is bad. 

I don’t think too many people would disagree with this, and I don’t think it requires any degree of experience as a player to understand it. It’s a tenet that applies to all kinds of life situations that involve co-operation to achieve a result (in sport, business, arts etc)  

The question being debated here is: Is Bailey Fritsch being selfish or is he doing what the coaches have asked of him?

The answer would appear to be somewhere in the middle; that he has been told to generally take his chances, but has on occasion gone too far in that direction instead of opting for something much better/less selfish.

Personally, I don’t think he’s an inherently  “selfish player” like some pundits are suggesting. I think, as other posters here have said, that his errors of judgement are being singled out right now because a couple of them have looked particularly bad.

Also I’m not so sure that ex-players are always correct when it comes to game analysis. Enough turkeys have passed through the commentary boxes over the last couple of decades to back this opinion up. 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Mel Bourne

[BW511 2,661]

Unfortunately, for Fritta, he will be judged solely on the number of goals he kicks.

Outside of that he does not contribute a whole lot, so it makes sense he wants to pump those numbers up as best he can.

I have no doubt it's been spoken about internally, even without the media attention. We are not in a position to be throwing away easy goals

[640MD 3,362]

We are second on the ladder only percentage 

this is a lower table problem.

although if Bailey kicks one goal a quarter or gives off too another player for a certain goal.

I would be quite pleased.

Of course two a quarter would be better 

and we would be far more potent.

still looking at B2B

[deegirl 1,577]

2 hours ago, 58er said:

You can't be serious ? 
Didn't  you love him after his great 6 goals effort in the GF? 
Well he has occasionally lost his judgement and team plays temporarily but that will stop hopefully now after about 4 bad examples.

He is too smart a footballer to keep up this. 

I appreciate the six goals in the GF and agree that he's a very good player.  But that doesnt mean i love him.  You think all the North fans loved Brett Allison?  All Essendon fans love Blake Caracella?  Personally I think it's the selfishness that stops him from being an excellent player.  But I'm not on the coaching panel, I'm one muppet on a MFC forum 😁  

[Redleg 40,856]

20 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Yes, this would definitely be part of his thinking and part of why he refuses to look to pass. 

We're a team playing patchy and desperate footy and Fritsch is trying too hard to take it upon himself to kick the goal, no matter the cost. 

As I said, it's emblematic of where our team is at presently. 

I don't think anyone feels that confident at the moment, we're scrapping wins and it's getting to the pointy end with top four we'll and truly on the line. 

Then on the other hand how many times have we stuffed up simple passes and fumbled etc?

Even the great Tracc fumbled, when alone in the goal square and wasted a Joe the Goose gimme.

Is it not possible that on a couple of those Fritta non passes, he just didn’t see/grasp the opportunity.

When he didn’t handball to Tracc, he was running into goal and may not have realised that a player was going to run him down, did Tracc yell “you are hot” and also Tracc was standing on the points line facing him. Fritta was in the best position to score until he was grabbed.

Maybe he didn’t notice Langdon at right angles and on the other side of the ground to him, as he ran in.

The Spargo one on Sunday was the worst.

Fritta copped a bake from Spargo and probably others and seemed upset. After that he was looking to pass every time.

He has been our best forward for a while and maybe we don’t crucify him, but coach him to be more aware.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Redleg

[jnrmac 20,055]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

He has been our best forward for a while and maybe we don’t crucify him, but coach him to be more aware.

You would have to think this is already happening

[Kent 2,906]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Then on the other hand how many times have we stuffed up simple passes and fumbled etc?

Even the great Tracc fumbled, when alone in the goal square and wasted a Joe the Goose gimme.

Is it not possible that on a couple of those Fritta non passes, he just didn’t see/grasp the opportunity.

When he didn’t handball to Tracc, he was running into goal and may not have realised that a player was going to run him down, did Tracc yell “you are hot” and also Tracc was standing on the points line facing him. Fritta was in the best position to score until he was grabbed.

Maybe he didn’t notice Langdon at right angles and on the other side of the ground to him, as he ran in.

The Spargo one on Sunday was the worst.

Fritta copped a bake from Spargo and probably others and seemed upset. After that he was looking to pass every time.

He has been our best forward for a while and maybe we don’t crucify him, but coach him to be more aware.

I'm surprised more players dont look for Langdon as he continues to run forward after clearing the ball

He is always there on his pat always ignored

Looks pretty basic to me and a half decent forward line coach would have fixed these problems