what jvr did for a big stretch of games in the middle of the season as the #1 tall forward in our set-up was extraordinary for a kid of 20 years of age

i'm expecting him to become a serious target, if he's not one already

  On 16/07/2023 at 11:00, adonski said:

I just can't see us winning the flag without a BBB/JVR combo. They might not be setting the world on fire but at least they're legit KPF's.

I actually think Grundy has had a solid year, and there's a world where he and Max both co-exist and play good footy, but I'm beginning to think that won't be this year. 

I can't see a premiership where Max has to shoulder primary ruck duties for 9-10 more games. Sure he was great on Friday night but that's because he's been rested. Brodie will be back.

2024 won’t be 2023.

And as Max ages, how he goes forward, not the other way around, will determine the partnership and his time left in the game.

  On 16/07/2023 at 05:18, Redleg said:

Peter Wright says hello to all the doubters that say ruckmen can’t play forward. The Pies Cox also gives a big hi. Charlie Dixon also sends greetings. Luke Jackson joins in.

Ben McEvoy often played forward scoring goals.

Just as a few examples.

But then Damien Barrett says it can’t happen and Sunday panel agree, so it can’t then.

Peter Wright was always drafted as a forward more then a ruckman. His career at the Suns was always 70% forward and the rest as a relief ruckman.

Similar with Charlie Dixon. He's always started his career up forward with spurts in the ruck.

One thing about Peter Wright, Charlie Dixon and that stands out ahead of Grundy is that they've got the natural forward craft to go along with their strong contested marking.

This is their strength where as Grundy lacks these traits that you need in a solid key forward.

  On 16/07/2023 at 22:22, dazzledavey36 said:

Peter Wright was always drafted as a forward more then a ruckman. His career at the Suns was always 70% forward and the rest as a relief ruckman.

Similar with Charlie Dixon. He's always started his career up forward with spurts in the ruck.

One thing about Peter Wright, Charlie Dixon and that stands out ahead of Grundy is that they've got the natural forward craft to go along with their strong contested marking.

This is their strength where as Grundy lacks these traits that you need in a solid key forward.

Just as a discussion point, how can we say absolutely that Grundy can’t play forward, when he has played mainly as a ruckman and hasn’t been tried in that role? It may not work, but it might. He would be a hard matchup for the opposition.

My Pies’ mates who have seen him play for 10 years, say he is more a ruck rover than a ruckman. Remember someone else described that way?

We have seen him pick up the ground ball, run and bounce, take marks up forward and kick about 10 goals so far this year.

JVR is smaller than Grundy, less experienced and not dominating yet. BBB has lost some of the little mobility he had and goes out of the game and has kicked only a few goals in the last few games. Tom Mac is injured and Schache is obviously not being considered.

BBB and JVR kicked one goal between them against the Lions.

I can’t believe that Grundy can’t offer similar up forward atm, or at least the same as BBB or JVR. He is strong, fit and experienced. He is a fair kick for goal. He is also the perfect chop out for Max and a better forward ruck than our two forwards. Him playing there saves JVR being belted and exhausted and affecting his main role as a forward.

All I am saying is this can work for a while. It is not an impossibility like some pundits in the media are saying.

Edited July 16, 20231 yr by Redleg

I think it can still work but the undeniable fact is that both players have played their best as a sole ruck. Will be an interesting run home for numerous reasons but I feel like this sub-plot will get alot of attention 

 

  On 16/07/2023 at 10:36, Macca said:

Well neither Brown or JVR are setting the world on fire right now so they are both close enough to being off the boil as we speak 

Not sure either player is safely in the team and would any of us be surprised if either player is dropped over the next 1-3 weeks? (on their current form)

So if Grundy has been flagged to make a return within the next 3 weeks it stands to reason that Brown or JVR will make way (unless they both start producing - unlikely)

Melksham stays and Fritsch will slot in on the other flank once he's fit

I reckon that's the plan ... could be wrong but I can't see Grundy playing the rest of the season in the 2's

He may not be a natural forward but is he any worse than Brown or JVR with their current form?

He'd be a tricky match-up for the opposition with his mobility & rucking ability whilst forward

Of course, it's a whole different conversation if our current KPF's were Neitz & Schwarz

Agreed. Max needs a chop out and Grundy is more capable at doing this than Jvr. Bbb has shown some good form and Jvr has been off the boil somewhat. 

So Grundy in for Jvr. Simples. Thats two very tall talls in Bbb and Grundy.

Fritta and Milk. Two very hard match ups.

Spargo makes room for Fritta.

 

  On 16/07/2023 at 22:46, Redleg said:

Just as a discussion point, how can we say absolutely that Grundy can’t play forward, when he has played mainly as a ruckman and hasn’t been tried in that role? It may not work, but it might. He would be a hard matchup for the opposition.

My Pies’ mates who have seen him play for 10 years, say he is more a ruck rover than a ruckman. Remember someone else described that way?

We have seen him pick up the ground ball, run and bounce, take marks up forward and kick about 10 goals so far this year.

JVR is smaller than Grundy, less experienced and not dominating yet. BBB has lost some of the little mobility he had and goes out of the game and has kicked only a few goals in the last few games. Tom Mac is injured and Schache is obviously not being considered.

BBB and JVR kicked one goal between them against the Lions.

I can’t believe that Grundy can’t offer similar up forward atm, or at least the same as BBB or JVR. He is strong, fit and experienced. He is a fair kick for goal. He is also the perfect chop out for Max and a better forward ruck than our two forwards. Him playing there saves JVR being belted and exhausted and affecting his main role as a forward.

All I am saying is this can work for a while. It is not an impossibility like some pundits in the media are saying.

Look, I don't think it's impossible, but you do need to understand that he's been programmed his whole AFL career as a genuine number 1 ruckman.

Its going to take a while for him to adjust to being a full time forward. He'll need to learn about certain leading patterns, timing of when to lead and not too, body on body position etc. It's those little things that'll take time to adjust.

I like how the club is being bold about this. They've identified that it hasn't worked so let's assess other options and instead not let if fester away until the seasons done.

Still think they'll find a way to fit Grundy coming in towards the finals.

  On 16/07/2023 at 22:49, Demonland said:

 

Best motivation you can get, someone telling you that you can’t do something.

What all these commentators seem to be missing is the fact Gawn probably only has a good year or 2 left in him as the primary ruck, at which point Brody will take the helm while Gawn spends his twilight years up forward. 

Edited July 16, 20231 yr by Smokey

These journos will forever be plotting and predicting our down fall. Our forward line was on 'life support' until it wasn't. We were at risk of dropping out of the top 4, until we weren't. 

I see no reason why he couldn't produce a game like JVR did against Brisbane. Follow leading patterns, bring the ball to ground, and ruck in the forward line and the occasional centre bounce. I also see him being able to lead up the ground and link up from forward 50, leaving space and opportunity for other forwards, just like TMAC did in past years. 

I don't think he will ever become a great contested mark, or develop crafty forward skills but that doesn't mean he can't work in a forward 50 role. 

Barret is a slug and I will enjoy seeing these journos dumbfounded when we hold up another cup this year. 

  On 16/07/2023 at 23:15, Smokey said:

What all these commentators seem to be missing is the fact Gawn probably only has a good year or 2 left in him as the primary ruck, at which point Brody will take the helm while Gawn spends his twilight years up forward. 

Correct.

Gawn will be 32 in December and Grundy just turned 29.

Max would have a pretty banged up body by now. 

Edited July 16, 20231 yr by Redleg

  On 16/07/2023 at 22:49, Demonland said:

 

 More certain is that Nathan Buckley is not a premiership player or coach and he never will be. 

That quote isnt what anyone on here wants to hear but Bucks would know Grundy very well

Whether it works or not is yet to be seen, but the media are acting like we think Grundy will suddenly become Tom Hawkins and win a coleman.

The club obviously just want him to slightly improve his forward craft, so he can do an adequate job down there and then take relief ruck for the remainder of the season.

There is absolutely no reason he can't learn the basic running patterns etc. and then create a contest, which is essentially what JVR is doing right now as a forward in his infancy.

Grundy is an intelligent person, so one would think he can pick up the basic requirements pretty easily.

  On 16/07/2023 at 22:49, Demonland said:

 

nathan buckley will never win a premiership, as a player or a coach

  On 16/07/2023 at 23:26, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

That quote isnt what anyone on here wants to hear but Bucks would know Grundy very well

We're talking about Bucks... I rate him very highly as a player... A coach not so much.

Be seated ppl...fair warning.  I rate Goidwin easily over Buckley.  Buckley accomplished sfa at Pieland.   Maybe he doesn't know as much as he spouts.

Both Goodwin and especially Choco eclipse him for success.  Maybe they have an idea or 5 . 

Im going to back our FD over that failed bit of filth.

Think i need a lay down... 

  On 16/07/2023 at 09:47, adonski said:

 

He'd need BBB or JVR to really go off the boil

 

  On 16/07/2023 at 10:06, Macca said:

The truth is that Brown & JVR aren't any better than Grundy up forward ... not on their current output

 

 

  On 16/07/2023 at 10:36, Macca said:

Well neither Brown or JVR are setting the world on fire right now so they are both close enough to being off the boil as we speak 

 

Agree 'Macca', neither are on the boil at the moment.

...we're trying to manufacture a forward line and Grundy might be our best bet.

He's more physical than the other 2 at this stage and a big part of the role will be to hit the pack and bring the ball to ground if he can't mark it.

If Goody can make this work then we are a shot...

  On 16/07/2023 at 23:40, rjay said:

 

 

Agree 'Macca', neither are on the boil at the moment.

...we're trying to manufacture a forward line and Grundy might be our best bet.

He's more physical than the other 2 at this stage and a big part of the role will be to hit the pack and bring the ball to ground if he can't mark it.

If Goody can make this work then we are a shot...

I had a dream that at the first l bounce in the 2023 granny Max takes the centre bounce and it ends up with Nick Daicos who is smashed into next week by Grundy running in from CHB. Grundy then goes forward and clunks a few. C’wood come back but we win 🏆. Buckley and Barrett lose power of speech for a week.

  On 16/07/2023 at 23:40, rjay said:

 

 

Agree 'Macca', neither are on the boil at the moment.

...we're trying to manufacture a forward line and Grundy might be our best bet.

He's more physical than the other 2 at this stage and a big part of the role will be to hit the pack and bring the ball to ground if he can't mark it.

If Goody can make this work then we are a shot...

I agree and I reckon we made the right move in giving Brown & JVR a chance to prove themselves as a pair and as individuals

But by doing that, there wasn't a spot for Grundy (for now) ... he gets to get a rest from being first ruck in the seniors whilst hopefully playing well as a forward at a lower level

It's a bold experiment but it might work

If we can somehow sort it all out before the finals, we'll be doing well

  On 16/07/2023 at 23:07, Redleg said:

Best motivation you can get, someone telling you that you can’t do something.

Imagine if motivation from his former coach helped us win a flag 🙃

  On 16/07/2023 at 22:22, dazzledavey36 said:

Peter Wright was always drafted as a forward more then a ruckman. His career at the Suns was always 70% forward and the rest as a relief ruckman.

Similar with Charlie Dixon. He's always started his career up forward with spurts in the ruck.

One thing about Peter Wright, Charlie Dixon and that stands out ahead of Grundy is that they've got the natural forward craft to go along with their strong contested marking.

This is their strength where as Grundy lacks these traits that you need in a solid key forward.

You're possibly right but we had to something ... our KPF's aren't firing and Max forward wasn't working either

So do nothing and it's probably more of the same or do something and maybe we'll get a positive result.  Maybe

I reckon the MC came to the realisation that our forward line marking strength was negligible and we weren't a dominant force in the ruck either

We could have reversed roles (Gawn/Grundy) but we've chosen a different pathway

It could be that either Brown or JVR fires then one makes way for Grundy who  comes in and competes hard ... and right now, that's a better result than neither of our KPF's firing

Not forgetting that Grundy is a proper ruckman

Buckley said we would battle to even make the 8 from here so his opinion isn't worth....

We aren't asking Brodie to be Tom Hawkins. We want him to play ruck/forward. The media can't seem to get that. They think we want him to play forward for 100% game time. As for Buckley, he hates us, (the feeling is mutual) last week he said we can't win it because we can't score. We have scored 69 points less than the pies this year. He is clueless. He was a great player, but a failed coach.