16 minutes ago, binman said:

Childish gotcha rubbish nev.

But, if you are going to bother using quotes from two different posts of mine to make some sort of point, at least quote me correctly.

I did not say he is not in form.

In the very quote you picked, I said he was not in GREAT form.

Please don't bother rebutting, but they are two different things.

So, I could say something like Brown is in form, but not great form.

The point I  making is his form is at a level that his coach deems acceptable.

You don't think he us performing at the required level, which is fine.

No disrespect intended, but I'll go with the premiership coach on this one.

But just like your numerous posts defending his form based on your interpretation of the nuances around it, there is also nuance around his continued selection (and selection in general). I'm not sure why you highlight one and ignore the other.

Clearly Brown is historically our best forward, at least out of the options available. So getting him into form/better form/great form (whatever way you choose to define it) is important in the run to finals yeah? That would already give him an edge on Mitch or Sam. Then, add onto that the lack of 'great form' of those other two and really it makes BBB the current best option in the circumstances. There's more to selection than just doing the job vs not doing the job, clearly there's lots in between and context around future planning.

And come on mate, the 'I'll go with the premiership coach' line is a cop out. Nowhere did I say Brown should not be playing this week, even in the changes thread I had Weid definitely coming out and maybe Mitch.

But should Brown have a poor game and Weid/Mitch perform ok for Casey then let's revisit this next week and see what Goody decides.

Edited July 7, 20223 yr by Lord Nev

25 minutes ago, binman said:

Childish gotcha rubbish nev.

But, if you are going to bother using quotes from two different posts of mine to make some sort of point, at least quote me correctly.

I did not say he is not in form.

In the very quote you picked, I said he was not in GREAT form.

Please don't bother rebutting, but they are two different things.

So, I could say something like Brown is in form, but not great form.

The point I  making is his form is at a level that his coach deems acceptable.

You don't think he us performing at the required level, which is fine.

No disrespect intended, but I'll go with the premiership coach on this one.

The selective quoting is a low act. Always appreciate your considered posts and replies Bin. 

Edited July 7, 20223 yr by Ethan Tremblay

1 hour ago, binman said:

Spot on. He does that sort of work mutiple times a game.

Goody doesn't mind which player scores, just that one does. They are a collective.

In that example it is trac, but it doesn't happen without Brown's involvement. Didn't get a stat for it, but Brown played his role and because he did we scored.

Role execution and selflessness (for instance no Hollywood attempt at a screamer).

The key point is he continues to be selected.

That is sufficient evidence for me that he is executing his role to goody's satisfaction.

Tonight's game is a legitimate blockbuster. We are primed and will be desperate to make a statement.

If his performance was as poor as some are suggestingd, does anyone seriously think goody would select him for this game? When he had two fit forwards in weed and m brown (who both played alright in tbe previous match) he could select instead?

Surely goody has earned a bit more credit than that to suggest he is willing to play an under performing player in the hope he will suddenly perform well or he could play him back into form.

If goody is ok with bb's performance, im ok with his performance.

BBB definitely executes his role in team.

If he gets a free every 2nd week (and he should number of times he gets blocked or arms punched vs golden elbows treatment of Hawkins) and takes one extra mark every 2nd week, should add to nearly an extra goal per week and everyone will be quiet about BBB!

Last week he kicks that snap means 3 goals for game and everyone happy.

He isn’t too far off solid form, hopefully it is training loads as he came home strong last year when he came back into the team.

52 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

But should Brown have a poor game and Weid/Mitch perform ok for Casey then let's revisit this next week and see what Goody decides.

No, lets not. 

Not sure about anyone else, but I think I’ll read another topic for a while - at least until this one gets interesting again.

3 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Not sure about anyone else, but I think I’ll read another topic for a while - at least until this one gets interesting again.

Good idea but don't bother with the Luke Jackson contract thread - nothing to see there 😀

34 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Not sure about anyone else, but I think I’ll read another topic for a while - at least until this one gets interesting again.

Brother 1:-  “Mum, my brother pushed me”

Brother 2:-   “No I didn’t, he pushed me” 

Mum:-   “Ok boys, I get you are nervous about tonight’s game. Both go to your rooms and relax for a while” 

:) 

Edited July 7, 20223 yr by 1964_2

17 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Agree, would have kept Mitch in this week to try and help Ben find form.

And left out whom?

2 minutes ago, monoccular said:

And left out whom?

Probably Bedford, who I like and has shown some good signs, but just seemed the likely call if so.

TBH I was a little surprised that we ditched both talls, however, our Match Committee set the Kpi’s and if the players don’t meet them it’s Sayonara baby.!!!

21 hours ago, deejammin' said:

I think this is our best 22 for now. With the possible exception of TMac returning this is a super strong side. Let’s get the job done!

I agree. If we had a 2nd key forward in form, or at least performing a role, then I'd leave Bedford out, but that's not where it's at currently. Geelong are missing Stewart & Kolodjashnij from their preferred backline and the weather is showery so I think going small makes sense.

20 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

 I would suggest that much like the last two weeks, one of the rucks will rest forward so it’s really no different. Brown will have a much better time with Gawn in the goal square than he did with Mitch Brown and Weideman down there.

With Gawn spending so much time forward, having Mitch Brown/Sam Weideman as well as BBB makes us too tall IMV. We don't need 3 talls flying together. I think both BBB as well as Bayley Fritsch will benefit. Certainly Mitch Brown & Sam Weideman haven't impacted the scoreboard when they've been in the side. 

19 hours ago, CYB said:

It’s going to be a wet ball so going shorter up forward makes sense. Our ground ball game has to be on. 

There's going to be the occasional shower, it's not going to be a slog in the rain, but I do agree the wind and  slightly slippery conditions aren't going to help the tall forwards. Why would our ground ball game not be on?

17 hours ago, Larry, Moe or Curly said:

If he's getting confidence back in his knee and with his aerobic ability, could run some great leading patterns and apply forward pressure; he's played as a back, knows how to tackle.

I can't see the logic of this at all. Tommo 's either in the side as a back or not at all. TMac's move up forward was out of desparation at the time. If we're that desparate (which we're not) I'd prefer to move Petty forward (he's had experience there in 2019) and either bring Tomlinson or Rivers into the side.

Edited July 7, 20223 yr by Sydney_Demon
Typo

22 hours ago, binman said:

Weed will come back into tge side soon enough.

Why Binman if we keepwinnng with Bedford in kicking goals.

Not much height up fwd but plenty of speed and skill.

9 hours ago, binman said:

My take on Ben Brown.

Is he is great form? No.

Will he be dropped if he has a poor game stats wise this week. No

Is his form over the last 5-6 games related to being fatigued. Yes, the eyes suggest that is the case.

He was more mobile and energised against the lions, but noticeablely sluggish in the other games, including last week. For example, he struggled to jump in those games.

To be honest any assessment of his game based on stats is next to useless. 

Have people not been listening to goody over the last few years? 

Goody has made it crystal clear that in terms of the expectations on performance there are three fundamentals - selflessness, team first and role execution.

Those are the club's KPIs.

So, judging a player on numbers is all well and good but goody has said literally dozens of times that players are not judged on them.

Sure you could dismiss that as spin, but then you have posters periodically calling for, say kozzie or spargo  to be dropped because they have had mutuple weeks in a row with single figure disposals and/or no goals.

Thankfully such calls are less frequent now, because people now better understand that spargs and kozzie's role is pressure - and that is visible.

So, I try to assess performance on tbe metrics the club uses.

Of course, we don't know exactly what Brown's role is. 

But we can have a pretty good guess (to be clear this a guess, so please don't come back with a how would you know spiel)

First and foremost, his role is to be involved in aerial contests - up forward and up the ground. These contest invariably imvve big packs of talls, including our talls.

The number one priority is bringing the ball to ground. A mark, either up forward or on tbe hbf is a total bonus. 

The next part of his role is the incredible up and down the ground running he dies. This is critical on a number of fronts. It means, foe example that May's standard 60 metre kick out goes to a pack that includes at least two of our talls.

Again, the key here is that the opposition don't mark it. If we can't  mark it, our mids and defenders know where it will likely hit the ground (watch how brown palms it forward if he can't mark it) and win the resuting ground ball.

The running he does also means he can create one on ones on the wing for a bail out kick, or a long searching lead from the 50 yp to the wing, or turn us opponent  around and runs back inside 50.

But his running also messes with the opposition defensive system. On a basic level, if his direct opponent, always a big, has to go with him and if he is not as fit, may blow up.

But Brown's run also stretches the defence and messes with their structure and zone.

For example they need to decide whether his opponent goes with him up the ground, or as we usually do stay inside 50.

If they go with him we have forced Brown's opponent to go one on one with him. And then they also have one less defender inside 50, which messes with their ability to set up an effective defensive zone

If they dont go with him, his opponent has to make sure they hand off to a teamate when he goes up the ground, and there needs to be another handoff as he runs back towards our goal.

All game. Up and down the ground. And all game the opposition have to sort out how to cover him.

For context, brown is in the all tome top 10 of distance converd in a game (sculls heads the list). That was whilst he was at the roos. And no doubt is a key reason why we recruited  him. Brown is regularly, with langdon and nibbler, in our top 3 distance covered in a game.

And that's it. If he does all that to goody's satisfaction he has executed his role. And could do so without recording a single disposal. 

And playing rhat role is also completely team first and selfless. Which is Goody's non negotiable 

It's also a role that is super impacted by fatigue.

So what about goals you might ask. Surely a kpi of a forward is to kick goals. For fans maybe, but not goody.

Again, as Goody has pointed out he doesn't judge individual forwards on the goals they kick. They are part of a collective. Which was partly his point when he said the forward line had had 60 scoring shots in the last two games.

Brown is part of that forward line. 

But if you do want to judge him on goals, well I'm not sure why tbe fact he kicked two last week seems not to register - or worse are perhaps discounted because one was a crumb and the other right at tbe end of the game.

BB will get fresher and fresher and will remain a critical cog in tbe machine.

Look Rubbish Binny . . . if you persist in posting nuanced and discerning content such as the above on Demonland, I'll be forced to report you to Andy and cease listening to the pods. 

On 7/6/2022 at 6:21 PM, Ham said:

B.Brown should be out.

What has he done for the last 3 quarters in this game? 

Wtf if the plan for us to always kick out to LHS from goal, so bloody predictable

 

21 minutes ago, Ham said:

What has he done for the last 3 quarters in this game? 

FCS. Go and draw and quarter him, it doesn’t solve our problem.

12 hours ago, rjay said:

 

 

I also think the knee injury he picked up in the first practice game has been an issue.

A more seasoned player can maybe deal with these things better but his mobility has suffered and along with that so has his form.

 

 Thanks 

The only thing you need to know about this thread is that Thurs night footy sucks, the end.