In addition to the ducking, tilt of the head, dropping knees that lead to the 'head high' there are the 'holding' frees where a player lets go of the ball as the tackler touches him and leans back ditto when going for a mark a player leans back.  Then there is the allowing of 'throws' when players scoop the ball out double handed - they are not hand-balls, which is a real skill.

Buckley recently talked about 'dropping his centre of gravity' when commentating a Pies game.  Generally that s 'dropping the knees, so no free.  He also said players are training to use two hands when close to the ground ie scoop/throw the ball.

Players are becoming very adept at these tricks.

The genie is out of the bottle and there is no going back.  If the AFL don't stop the Weightman's of the world (and we have a few players who are also guilty) dubious frees will take over the game.  We will end up with a lot more of them and a lot more 'dissent'.

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

In addition to the ducking, tilt of the head, dropping knees that lead to the 'head high' there are the 'holding' frees where a player lets go of the ball as the tackler touches him and leans back ditto when going for a mark a player leans back.  Then there is the allowing of 'throws' when players scoop the ball out double handed - they are not hand-balls, which is a real skill.

Buckley recently talked about 'dropping his centre of gravity' when commentating a Pies game.  Generally that s 'dropping the knees, so no free.  He also said players are training to use two hands when close to the ground ie scoop/throw the ball.

Players are becoming very adept at these tricks.

The genie is out of the bottle and there is no going back.  If the AFL don't stop the Weightman's of the world (and we have a few players who are also guilty) dubious frees will take over the game.  We will end up with a lot more of them and a lot more 'dissent'.

in terms of ducking or lowering your centre of gravity etc i like to split it into 2 categories

1. ducking/weaving etc away from the tackler, to avoid a tackle and break free. i consider this legitimate

2. ducking into a tackle. this is staging for a free and a free should not be played. it is either play on or holding the ball if there is prior. i would also like to see umps caution players who do this.

Edited April 22, 20223 yr by daisycutter

I'm still grateful the free kick count was in our favor in the Granny.

 

7 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Unbelievable that a  player openly admits he 'creates' the free..  Surely the AFL and umpires should take note.  It is not a skill!  It is cheating.  It is staging or exaggeration and not in the spirit of the game..

The amount of staging for frees is out of control.  Coaches are openly talking about training players on how to draw free kicks.  Now we have Hardwick saying they will go to umpires to learn how to draw free kicks!!  hardwick-says-tigers-must-learn-how-to-win-frees

The playing for frees is spoiling the game as a spectator.  Surely, the AFL realise all this is making a mockery of the rules. 

This is a bloke who was drawing and giving away free kicks from when he touched a football.

5 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Dale Lewis is a good example, thanks. However, I'm completely out of the loop when it comes to the "common knowledge" you refer to.

Vladimir Putin famously took one Oligarch (Khodorkovsky from Gazprom) to court for corruption and kept him in a cage in the corner of the court room. It sent a blunt message to all of the other Oligarchs that they needed to co-operate with Putin or else.

The AFL aren't that bad (yet) but the point is you only need to do it once for everyone to get the message, 

3 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

In addition to the ducking, tilt of the head, dropping knees that lead to the 'head high' there are the 'holding' frees where a player lets go of the ball as the tackler touches him and leans back ditto when going for a mark a player leans back.  Then there is the allowing of 'throws' when players scoop the ball out double handed - they are not hand-balls, which is a real skill.

Buckley recently talked about 'dropping his centre of gravity' when commentating a Pies game.  Generally that s 'dropping the knees, so no free.  He also said players are training to use two hands when close to the ground ie scoop/throw the ball.

Players are becoming very adept at these tricks.

The genie is out of the bottle and there is no going back.  If the AFL don't stop the Weightman's of the world (and we have a few players who are also guilty) dubious frees will take over the game.  We will end up with a lot more of them and a lot more 'dissent'.

Showing my age here but the definition of a handball used to be a clenched fist hitting a ball held in a stationary palm

Dont know when that definition changed but you never used to see over the head handballs or the crow throw before 1990 or so.

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Showing my age here but the definition of a handball used to be a clenched fist hitting a ball held in a stationary palm

Dont know when that definition changed but you never used to see over the head handballs or the crow throw before 1990 or so.

A lot of the time most of the balls momentum comes from the hand holding the ball not the fist. 

7 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Showing my age here but the definition of a handball used to be a clenched fist hitting a ball held in a stationary palm

Dont know when that definition changed but you never used to see over the head handballs or the crow throw before 1990 or so.

Len Smith's Fitzroy flick pass in the 1950-1960 era ... then the clenched fist was introduced but all that now seems forgotten.

1911 official rules:
Law 12.
What constitutes, a throw? Answer : When there is any doubt that the ball has not been hand-balled fairly it must be considered a throw, and a free kick awarded accordingly. Handball is when the ball is clearly held in one hand and knocked with the other hand.

1925 amendment:
Handball rule clarified. Ball to be punched out not just struck. (Flick pass was permitted previously.)

1928 official rules:
Handball
(6) Handball is where the ball is clearly held in one hand and punched with the closed fist of the other hand.

1934 amendment:
Handball rule altered. The ball could be held in one hand and knocked with the other (ie the flick pass was again permitted).

1944 official rules:
Handball.
(6) Handball is where the ball is clearly held in one hand and knocked with the other hand.

1966 amendment:
Flick pass outlawed. Ball had to be struck with a clenched fist.

2015 official rules:
Handball: the act of holding the football in one hand and disposing of the football by hitting it with the clenched fist of the other hand.

(2022 rules same definition as 2015.)

 

 

 

The rules from 1911 show how much the modern game has degenerated with respect to handball.

Umpiring is obviously exceptionally difficult, you see half the vision, have to make snap decisions and have the crowd noise in the background calling for a free for their own team!

The rules seem very technical and interpretation changes from season to season, week to week. 
Three things I would do are:

1. Swearing at umpire decision 50m otherwise nothing re head nods arms flapping.

2. Staging, each game reviewed for staging and players fined $5k or $10k, would stop them pretty quickly. That Hawkins wasn’t fined was a disgrace, gives him approval to stage as much as he likes.

3. Go back to one umpire, plenty of frees would be missed, but at least remove inconsistency of Interpretation between umpires. Only need 9 umpires instead of 27, hopefully we have 9 good ones!

Another pretty standard Bulldogs umpiring result 24 to 10

Doggies thew it and dropped it all day.

 

Strange to say, but glad the crows won

Just another +14 for the Doggies there. How long until this farce gets the proper attention it deserves?

I know the free kick count doesn’t need to be even or close for that matter, but when it’s a pattern of favoritism and by the end of the season one team has nearly 200 more free kicks than another, then surely it needs to be addressed?!

I’m lost why it isn’t discussed more. I don’t think the media are in fear of losing accreditation. With what Hardwick and Weightman said this week, if there was ever a time to discuss it, it would have been now. 

35 minutes ago, CYB said:

I’m lost why it isn’t discussed more. I don’t think the media are in fear of losing accreditation. With what Hardwick and Weightman said this week, if there was ever a time to discuss it, it would have been now. 

What did they say?

Can't imagine that the DuckDogs have admitted they have a sweetheart deal with the umps.

17 minutes ago, faultydet said:

What did they say?

Can't imagine that the DuckDogs have admitted they have a sweetheart deal with the umps.

In an interview on SEN Breakfast, Weightman admitted he has the ability to win free kicks, but believes that is part of his on-field repertoire and he is not breaking any rules.

“I think I do have an ability to draw free kicks and I think that’s a skillset rather than a flop or whatever you call that," Weightman said.

1 hour ago, ding said:

In an interview on SEN Breakfast, Weightman admitted he has the ability to win free kicks, but believes that is part of his on-field repertoire and he is not breaking any rules.

“I think I do have an ability to draw free kicks and I think that’s a skillset rather than a flop or whatever you call that," Weightman said.

Jesus.

A skillset rather than a dog act, bend-your-knees-while-throwing-your-head-back pansy effort at cheating.

Weightman, Hunter, Matheison, Selwood, Spargo and their ilk make me want to spew.

Should be a free and 50m every time they do it.

On 4/23/2022 at 12:09 PM, Mazer Rackham said:

1911 official rules:
Law 12.
What constitutes, a throw? Answer : When there is any doubt that the ball has not been hand-balled fairly it must be considered a throw, and a free kick awarded accordingly. Handball is when the ball is clearly held in one hand and knocked with the other hand.

1925 amendment:
Handball rule clarified. Ball to be punched out not just struck. (Flick pass was permitted previously.)

1928 official rules:
Handball
(6) Handball is where the ball is clearly held in one hand and punched with the closed fist of the other hand.

1934 amendment:
Handball rule altered. The ball could be held in one hand and knocked with the other (ie the flick pass was again permitted).

1944 official rules:
Handball.
(6) Handball is where the ball is clearly held in one hand and knocked with the other hand.

1966 amendment:
Flick pass outlawed. Ball had to be struck with a clenched fist.

2015 official rules:
Handball: the act of holding the football in one hand and disposing of the football by hitting it with the clenched fist of the other hand.

(2022 rules same definition as 2015.)

 

 

 

The rules from 1911 show how much the modern game has degenerated with respect to handball.

Thanks for this. Can I ask where you it all from ? 

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Thanks for this. Can I ask where you it all from ? 

I have copies of rules from different eras. They're hard to find. I got the really old ones from state libraries.

In the modern era I have rules for every year from 2015 on. Often they are not on the AFL web site. Nearly always I get them from regional comps such as the QAFL or from umpires web sites.

Strangely enough, the "amendments" part IS from the AFL web site. Normally allergic to publishing anything about the rules -- and they let it go out of date when they do -- they have a page summarising the rule changes over the ages, without publishing the rules themselves. They really don't care.

I still have a little booklet (12 x 7.5cm) from 1964 titled "Laws of the Australian National Game of Football", distributed by the manufacturers of Viscount Cigarettes (!), with the approval of the Australian National Football Council.

As you might expect, the rules are few and quite straightforward.  As you might also expect, the booklet contains advertising for Viscount which in those days sold for 3 bob (30 cents) for a pack of 20.

A handball is defined as "holding the ball in one hand and hitting it with the other hand".

6 pence (zac) for a chocolate coated ice cream and a tray (3thpence) for an icy pole.

We got the rub on Sunday night. Come at me if you truly disagree. 

5 minutes ago, Skuit said:

We got the rub on Sunday night. Come at me if you truly disagree. 

I was anxious to check the count because it genuinely felt like a 5-35 free kick count given that the avg game has us 10-15 lower than our opponents. 

4 minutes ago, CYB said:

I was anxious to check the count because it genuinely felt like a 5-35 free kick count given that the avg game has us 10-15 lower than our opponents. 

What was it? I'm not suggesting they were incorrect, but it felt like we had a lot go our way, especially during an important stretch in the game. 

28-19. It was more lop-sided in the first half.

richmond - as hardwick himself acknowledged - are incredibly ill-disciplined at and around the contest and their backline is making old-fashioned holding and defensive spoiling errors which result in fairly obvious free kicks being given