Footy has always been more than just raw stats and calculations 

There aren't measures for heart, toughness, leadership, ability to play to a team system etc etc. 

  On 17/02/2022 at 00:25, MrFreeze said:

Footy has always been more than just raw stats and calculations 

There aren't measures for heart, toughness, leadership, ability to play to a team system etc etc. 

Yes there is. It's called "games won", possibly a measurement Champion Data is unfamiliar with. 

  On 15/02/2022 at 00:50, Sir Why You Little said:

Steven May is not an Elite Defender. 
Brodie Grundy is an Elite Ruckmen, Max isn’t 

Salem in September? I mean that’s when it really counts 

Jackson, L. (6) Did you notice his work?

K.K. Pickett??

footscray [censored] the bed under pressure apart from Treloar and Bontempelli

Caleb Daniel had a Performance in the GF he would rather forget

Champion Data are not well…Sick…

Treloar got 2 lucky goals, soft as butter in the middle during our goal rushes and gave up the chase on Sparrow when he dropped the big one. 

A severely overrated front runner. Very similar to his boyfriend Dunkley

Give me Max over Grundy or Nicnat anyday.

Stringer elite but Wines or Max isn't. 🤣

  On 17/02/2022 at 01:24, Wizard of Koz said:

Treloar got 2 lucky goals, soft as butter in the middle during our goal rushes and gave up the chase on Sparrow when he dropped the big one. 

A severely overrated front runner. Very similar to his boyfriend Dunkley

Those 2 goals weren’t lucky. They were clever. 
Treloar had a crack, a lot of his teammates couldn’t say that

Just to add further salt in the wound CD has Nic Nac as the #1 player in the comp.

  On 17/02/2022 at 01:31, Sir Why You Little said:

Those 2 goals weren’t lucky. They were clever. 
Treloar had a crack, a lot of his teammates couldn’t say that

Rubbish. One was a result of the Petty tackle and he fumbled it. Right place right time and the other was nothing clever. Soft front runner at best. Looks like he is giving it all but scratch below the brian taylor hysteria and you will see him, for what he is. Treloar, Bailey Smith, Dunkley. They all gave up. And wasnt it fantastic. 

  On 17/02/2022 at 01:35, djr said:

Just to add further salt in the wound CD has Nic Nac as the #1 player in the comp.

Please tell me that Dangerfield was scored lowly. Then we've got something to work with:

Nic Nac, Paddy whack...

  On 17/02/2022 at 01:47, Wizard of Koz said:

Rubbish. One was a result of the Petty tackle and he fumbled it. Right place right time and the other was nothing clever. Soft front runner at best. Looks like he is giving it all but scratch below the brian taylor hysteria and you will see him, for what he is. Treloar, Bailey Smith, Dunkley. They all gave up. And wasnt it fantastic. 

No Treloar was very quick reactions with those 2 goals in the 2nd Quarter. 
At that stage he hadn’t given up. Now Libratore gave up much earlier than Treloar!!

  On 17/02/2022 at 01:35, djr said:

Just to add further salt in the wound CD has Nic Nac as the #1 player in the comp.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/02/17/the-best-player-in-the-afl-in-2021-by-some-margin-according-to-champion-data/

This article just explains how clueless Champion Data are about the game. Apparently, to be elite you just need to win contested possession in the forward half of the ground, and kick and handball straight.

Still doesn't explain why Nic Nat is the best player in the league according to CD, as his kicking efficiency is 42% and overall disposal efficiency is 63%, both in the lowest (Below Average) category.  

It does explain why the elite category is full of front runners and Carlton defenders.  

  On 17/02/2022 at 02:00, Sir Why You Little said:

No Treloar was very quick reactions with those 2 goals in the 2nd Quarter. 
At that stage he hadn’t given up. Now Libratore gave up much earlier than Treloar!!

agreed on libba

  On 14/02/2022 at 07:16, Demonstone said:

I don't know what their definition of "elite" is, but it's comical that they could include such plodders and no-names as Jeremy Finlayson, Sam Switkowski, Lincoln McCarthy, Zac Williams, Nick Hind and Dylan Moore.  Jack Sinclair gets the nod but his team mate Jack Steele does not.  The whole thing is risible.

I could not agree more (although I don't know if I knew that the word "risible" existed before this post. Thank you for introducing me to it).

  On 14/02/2022 at 09:05, DeeSpencer said:

I don’t really get the hate.

They clearly state they list the elite players in each position, not overall.

They’ve decided Gawn was just behind the best rucks.

The likes of Darcy and Hickey don’t have back ups. Gawn does. No doubt that impacts his statistical value.

Nic Nat is a clean hit out machine. That gets him huge stat points even if he does little else. Because clear centre clearances are worth gold, as we learned in the granny. 

Its ok to see what they do and don’t value, it can be a way to learn about the game.

It may not be "hate", but you don't really get why people find this list of players a bit on the nose?

Look at @Demonstone's post above for starters.

Their system results in Jeremy Finlayson being ranked "elite" in the key forward group but Harry Mackay and Jeremy Cameron not. Finlayson couldn't hold his spot in the GWS best 22 last year and was dropped for the last month. "Elite"?

Their system results in Dylan Moore and Sam Switowski being ranked "elite" in the general forward group but Charlie Cameron, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti and Michael Walters not.

Jack Steele had an incredible 2021 but somehow went backwards in the rankings?

The point is this: whatever Champion Data is measuring, they're way off the mark to the point that these rankings are pointless.

They’ve now named Nic Nat the number one players in the game last year 😂

  On 17/02/2022 at 01:35, djr said:

Just to add further salt in the wound CD has Nic Nac as the #1 player in the comp.

Supposedly number 1 player "by some way" too! He can certainly have an impact on matches, but he's nowhere near the number 1 player in the comp. He's not even top 20. Just goes to show how broken Champion Data's algorithm or rating system is.

I mean not a direct correlation, but the Eagles peaked and won a flag when Nicnat was out injured and then turned to trash again when he returned :P 

  On 17/02/2022 at 01:35, djr said:

Just to add further salt in the wound CD has Nic Nac as the #1 player in the comp.

No wound here for me. Champion data really do embaress themselves and hurt their credibility when they put out these rankings. Just should just record the stats and leave it at that

Edited February 17, 20223 yr by Bates Mate

  On 17/02/2022 at 22:51, Bates Mate said:

No wound here for me. Champion data really do embaress themselves and hurt their credibility when they put out these rankings. Just should just record the stats and leave it at that

I think they like to build their profile a bit at this time of year.

Go by the adage of there being no such thing as bad publicity.

In fact  they would probably be better off following the words of  Mark Twain...

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Nic Nat ahead of Maxy ha, what a joke.  Nic is so inconsistent it’s not funny.

Nic couldnt hold Maxs bags. Appalling. 

  On 17/02/2022 at 02:00, Sir Why You Little said:

No Treloar was very quick reactions with those 2 goals in the 2nd Quarter. 
At that stage he hadn’t given up. Now Libratore gave up much earlier than Treloar!!

The only bloke in a dogs jumper that gave his all was Bont no more no less!

  On 18/02/2022 at 08:24, picket fence said:

The only bloke in a dogs jumper that gave his all was Bont no more no less!

Garbage. Duryea, Roarke Smith, Bont and Treloar were all good. 

 

  On 18/02/2022 at 09:13, dee-tox said:

Garbage. Duryea, Roarke Smith, Bont and Treloar were all good. 

 

I'm not sure why I'm retorting , but Doggies were insipid . 

Matthew Scarlett would never have been "elite". Just a bloke who stopped his opponent from being elite. Every time.

So CD have a guru who dreams up the characteristics of an effective player. CD put those measures into numbers. Nic Nat ends up the best player in the game and Zac Williams is elite.

The next step would be for CD to query the assumptions they've relied on, or how they have translated them into an algorithm.

But no. Computer doesn't lie. Nic Nat is elite and by a far way!

  On 17/02/2022 at 22:51, Bates Mate said:

No wound here for me. Champion data really do embaress themselves and hurt their credibility when they put out these rankings. Just should just record the stats and leave it at that

Nailed it. 

  On 14/02/2022 at 09:05, DeeSpencer said:

I don’t really get the hate.

They clearly state they list the elite players in each position, not overall.

They’ve decided Gawn was just behind the best rucks.

The likes of Darcy and Hickey don’t have back ups. Gawn does. No doubt that impacts his statistical value.

Nic Nat is a clean hit out machine. That gets him huge stat points even if he does little else. Because clear centre clearances are worth gold, as we learned in the granny. 

Its ok to see what they do and don’t value, it can be a way to learn about the game.

I think the point about Max having an “elite” backup in Jackson is a good one. Jackson did almost half the ruck work in the GF (including of course almost all of the critical third quarter) and this of course affects the stats on which the elite judgements are made.

l think though to make Champion data classifications more relevant there should be some consideration in things like leadership and game-changing plays for which Max is renowned, and is the best in the competition. 
 

Without that, l agree, CD judgements are a bit off.

 

Mongrelpunt’s assessment of champion data which is spot on.

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2022/2022/02/15/mediocre-data-the-elite-list-bombs-again/

  On 19/02/2022 at 08:03, Dees2014 said:

I think the point about Max having an “elite” backup in Jackson is a good one. Jackson did almost half the ruck work in the GF (including of course almost all of the critical third quarter) and this of course affects the stats on which the elite judgements are made.

l think though to make Champion data classifications more relevant there should be some consideration in things like leadership and game-changing plays for which Max is renowned, and is the best in the competition. 
 

Without that, l agree, CD judgements are a bit off.

 

I'm sure they would do it if there was an indisputable quantitative measure.