Welcome to Demonland: Blake Howes

[Skuit 9,263]

2 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Although I think most clubs fans over on some forums, seem quite satisfied with obtaining players they initially wanted. Makes me wonder how much of the draft is secret handshakes between clubs sharing info on who they want, and who they will leave for other clubs. A fraternity of goodwill emerging. That's why we get trade and pick swaps done with no fuss. So we can actually form relationships that get us opportunities to trade up, and have the players we want still on the table.

There's a small clue in Jason Taylor's post-draft wrap: "We were really thrilled to get him through at that point of the draft. We didn’t expect it. It was a nice  – surprise probably isn’t the right word – but it was a really good result for us."

A bit of mixed messaging in the didn't expect it/surprise isn't the right word elements, but I get the sense they didn't expect the overall result going in - but had put in a heap of work in assessing other clubs' strategies and gaining intel to feel that there were decent enough odds in Blake slipping to around our second pick. I would assume this includes direct discussions with other clubs. 

[monoccular 16,187]

4 hours ago, John Demonic said:

@dazzledavey36Although I think most clubs fans over on some forums, seem quite satisfied with obtaining players they initially wanted. Makes me wonder how much of the draft is secret handshakes between clubs sharing info on who they want, and who they will leave for other clubs. A fraternity of goodwill emerging. That's why we get trade and pick swaps done with no fuss. So we can actually form relationships that get us opportunities to trade up, and have the players we want still on the table.

" ....secret handshakes between clubs sharing info on who they want, and who they will leave for other clubs. A fraternity of goodwill emerging. ..."    16 clubs - Freo and EssUndone excluded

3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I suspect he's got a fair bit of work to do on a lot of his game. Probably has to work on his pressure, contested ground balls, tackling etc and it looks like his kicking is hit or miss.

But I like the way he makes quick decisions from the mark, drawing opponents to hand off to runners or backing his kicking.

And his marking seems very natural. 

The wing has been a bit of a blindspot for JT, but Howes marking and athleticism both really suit the way the position is played these days. Show him Brayshaw's game in the grand  final and train him up to play like that.

Fraser Rosman (and maybe BaileyLaurie)??

[Grimes Times 1,278]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think this is a bit unfair. I think Brayshaw may be the best kick on his non-preferred side within the whole team. His right foot kicking could be better, but I've seen a lot worse.

THIS

[DeeSpencer 23,224]

4 minutes ago, monoccular said:

 

Fraser Rosman (and maybe BaileyLaurie)??

Stretch no good, Baker and Rosman not looking promising - I know that’s an early call on Rosman but he was miles off in the VFL. The 35 different options we used in 2019 like Wagner and Dunkley not working out.

JT’s been much better getting mids and flankers through the draft than wingers

It took paying top dollar for Langdon and shifting Gus to really fix it but to stay at the top we need cheaper home grown options pushing up.

 

[DeeSpencer 23,224]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think this is a bit unfair. I think Brayshaw may be the best kick on his non-preferred side within the whole team. His right foot kicking could be better, but I've seen a lot worse.

Gus has barely hit a target on his left in years. I liked it early in his career but these days it’s a myth. If he cut out the inexplicable out on the fulls his right foot would probably be serviceable. 

[Demonstone 19,321]

4 hours ago, Jontee said:

I think we are in uncharted territory.....the first Blake to play for the Dees, I think....

We had a Jason Blake and a Matthew Blake who played reserves for us, but nobody with either a Christian name or a surname of Blake has played a senior game for us AFAIK.

I'm just waiting to see Blake Howes chasing down Dan or Sam Butler so the crowd can yell out "I'll get you Butler!" (bit of a throwback for the older posters there).

[Wrecker46 2,673]

57 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Stretch no good, Baker and Rosman not looking promising - I know that’s an early call on Rosman but he was miles off in the VFL. The 35 different options we used in 2019 like Wagner and Dunkley not working out.

JT’s been much better getting mids and flankers through the draft than wingers

It took paying top dollar for Langdon and shifting Gus to really fix it but to stay at the top we need cheaper home grown options pushing up.

 

Rosman looks the goods to me.

Saying we paid top dollar for Langdon is ridiculous. We paid top dollar for May and Lever too. All 3 premiership players seem pretty cheap now.

You can afford to do that when you recruit brilliantly in other positions and need to fill a deficiency.

[DeeSpencer 23,224]

15 minutes ago, Wrecker46 said:

Rosman looks the goods to me.

Saying we paid top dollar for Langdon is ridiculous. We paid top dollar for May and Lever too. All 3 premiership players seem pretty cheap now.

You can afford to do that when you recruit brilliantly in other positions and need to fill a deficiency.

Did you watch much Casey? Apart from one game against a hapless North side Rosman looked totally lost. The traits are great but he makes Baker look good in the contest. 

Of course Langdon was worth paying for, but we don’t have the 600k+ and an early 2nd round pick to offer up for a guy like that now. We’d have to trade our first and clear cap space. When you’ve drafted Oliver, Petracca, Salem, Jackson etc you can make a move like that, if you’re constantly at the top of the ladder you can’t.

Just look at the Cerra situation. We didn’t have the draft capital to grab him even when he was available cheaply.

JT’s entire strategy with this draft was to get cheap needs based picks so we can keep the list together. If we have to make aggressive moves to fill needs we might have to push out players and that’s how you get in trouble. 

[Wrecker46 2,673]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Did you watch much Casey? Apart from one game against a hapless North side Rosman looked totally lost. The traits are great but he makes Baker look good in the contest. 

Of course Langdon was worth paying for, but we don’t have the 600k+ and an early 2nd round pick to offer up for a guy like that now. We’d have to trade our first and clear cap space. When you’ve drafted Oliver, Petracca, Salem, Jackson etc you can make a move like that, if you’re constantly at the top of the ladder you can’t.

Just look at the Cerra situation. We didn’t have the draft capital to grab him even when he was available cheaply.

JT’s entire strategy with this draft was to get cheap needs based picks so we can keep the list together. If we have to make aggressive moves to fill needs we might have to push out players and that’s how you get in trouble. 

Unfortunately, due to living in the most locked down city in the world I haven't seen much of Casey over the last 2 years.

In the rare opportunity I got to see Rosman in match simulation at training he looked good and on tv he played well in the game for Casey I watched.

You seem to always look for a negative. I don't think you understand JT's draft strategy and the fact we keep retaining and gaining players suggests we won't be pushing players out as you suggest.

[rjay 23,927]

8 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Did you watch much Casey? Apart from one game against a hapless North side Rosman looked totally lost. The traits are great but he makes Baker look good in the contest. 

Of course Langdon was worth paying for, but we don’t have the 600k+ and an early 2nd round pick to offer up for a guy like that now. We’d have to trade our first and clear cap space. When you’ve drafted Oliver, Petracca, Salem, Jackson etc you can make a move like that, if you’re constantly at the top of the ladder you can’t.

Just look at the Cerra situation. We didn’t have the draft capital to grab him even when he was available cheaply.

JT’s entire strategy with this draft was to get cheap needs based picks so we can keep the list together. If we have to make aggressive moves to fill needs we might have to push out players and that’s how you get in trouble. 

Yep, if we are going for someone like Cerra it would need to be later in their career as a free agent now.

Agree with you on Rosman, hasn't shown anything yet but also hasn't had a lot of football.

He was a spec pic so lets give him time.

Laurie on the other hand looks as though he has got something, needs a clear run at it and a few games to make a better assessment of him.

[dazzledavey36 48,912]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Did you watch much Casey? Apart from one game against a hapless North side Rosman looked totally lost. The traits are great but he makes Baker look good in the contest. 

Of course Langdon was worth paying for, but we don’t have the 600k+ and an early 2nd round pick to offer up for a guy like that now. We’d have to trade our first and clear cap space. When you’ve drafted Oliver, Petracca, Salem, Jackson etc you can make a move like that, if you’re constantly at the top of the ladder you can’t.

Just look at the Cerra situation. We didn’t have the draft capital to grab him even when he was available cheaply.

JT’s entire strategy with this draft was to get cheap needs based picks so we can keep the list together. If we have to make aggressive moves to fill needs we might have to push out players and that’s how you get in trouble. 

I watched a lot of Casey this year and this couldn't be more more further to your statement

I'm still bemused at people like yourself who are so quick to write off kids straight away after their first year in the system. Not only was Rosman's development this year stifled by Covid but he like many other kids in their first year barely had any continuity. James Jordon is a perfect example why you don't just write off first year players. JJ show much in his first year in the VFL and some were quick to question his worth as a future AFL player. He proved many wrong this year and matched it with the best midfielders in the game. 

Rosman played exactly how I expect a raw tall athletic player would after missing a whole year of footy due to Covid. He played the first 6 games this year with Casey and he grew confident with each game and was starting to hit some find. After round 6 the season was put on hold until they resumed back again at round 11. He played only 3 games after before it was called off again. How on earth can a kid gain any momentum or form through that? it was a unfair on many young kids starting out in the AFL.

Though, i am not surprised that you're once again finding ways to be extremely negative towards the club and how they're handling the list. This is you to the Tee.

Here I was thinking a premiership would give many people on here clarification that the club has pretty much gotten it right on field and off.

[Fritta and Turner 3,725]

48 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

JT’s entire strategy with this draft was to get cheap needs based picks so we can keep the list together. If we have to make aggressive moves to fill needs we might have to push out players and that’s how you get in trouble. 

I am not quite certain about cheap needs but we have really tried to keep the list together; taking the whole squad to Perth was very inclusive.

[DeeSpencer 23,224]

27 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I watched a lot of Casey this year and this couldn't be more more further to your statement

I'm still bemused at people like yourself who are so quick to write off kids straight away after their first year in the system. Not only was Rosman's development this year stifled by Covid but he like many other kids in their first year barely had any continuity. James Jordon is a perfect example why you don't just write off first year players. JJ show much in his first year in the VFL and some were quick to question his worth as a future AFL player. He proved many wrong this year and matched it with the best midfielders in the game. 

Rosman played exactly how I expect a raw tall athletic player would after missing a whole year of footy due to Covid. He played the first 6 games this year with Casey and he grew confident with each game and was starting to hit some find. After round 6 the season was put on hold until they resumed back again at round 11. He played only 3 games after before it was called off again. How on earth can a kid gain any momentum or form through that? it was a unfair on many young kids starting out in the AFL.

Though, i am not surprised that you're once again finding ways to be extremely negative towards the club and how they're handling the list. This is you to the Tee.

Here I was thinking a premiership would give many people on here clarification that the club has pretty much gotten it right on field and off.

I'm not completely writing off Rosman but he was undeniably a risk-reward gamble and I'm comfortable to say he remains as that level of a gamble. I'm completely fine with the strategy of using a pick every now and then on a potential freak, but I still think it's long odds to pay off. Hunt did nothing for 2 years and whilst it's been bumpy since has paid off. I think Rosman's around that mark. JJ was underwhelming in year 1 too, so, sure I get your point. He was a December birthday with a lot of work to do physically. Rosman walked in as the best runner on the list and with some strenght.

The premiership has made a lot of people on here act like the club can't do any wrong and are completely infallible. Any hint of criticism gets jumped on at a rate of knots. 

I think I've been more loyal to Goodwin than the vast majority on here. I think Jason Taylor is a freak, but I don't think pointing out that whilst he's clearly in the best tier in the business he's still human. That doesn't mean I wouldn't worship the ground he walks on.

And my original point for where this Rosman discussion stemmed was that Jason Taylor has been like Bradman at recruiting but the wing has been a bit of a bodyline for him. Howes is a serious talent and a fairly decent pick in a deep enough draft and with JT's record I expect him to pay off where other moves at finding wingers have yet to pan out.

If JT can keep his perfect 2nd round draft record going and fill a need with a versatile winger than he'll only go higher up as a phenomenal recruiter and the team will only be stronger.

[Dante 2,562]

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I'm not completely writing off Rosman but he was undeniably a risk-reward gamble and I'm comfortable to say he remains as that level of a gamble. I'm completely fine with the strategy of using a pick every now and then on a potential freak, but I still think it's long odds to pay off. Hunt did nothing for 2 years and whilst it's been bumpy since has paid off. I think Rosman's around that mark. JJ was underwhelming in year 1 too, so, sure I get your point. He was a December birthday with a lot of work to do physically. Rosman walked in as the best runner on the list and with some strenght.

The premiership has made a lot of people on here act like the club can't do any wrong and are completely infallible. Any hint of criticism gets jumped on at a rate of knots. 

I think I've been more loyal to Goodwin than the vast majority on here. I think Jason Taylor is a freak, but I don't think pointing out that whilst he's clearly in the best tier in the business he's still human. That doesn't mean I wouldn't worship the ground he walks on.

And my original point for where this Rosman discussion stemmed was that Jason Taylor has been like Bradman at recruiting but the wing has been a bit of a bodyline for him. Howes is a serious talent and a fairly decent pick in a deep enough draft and with JT's record I expect him to pay off where other moves at finding wingers have yet to pan out.

If JT can keep his perfect 2nd round draft record going and fill a need with a versatile winger than he'll only go higher up as a phenomenal recruiter and the team will only be stronger.

I was going to give you a face palm, but your last post is well balanced and quite fair. Just a bit more of that would be appreciated.

[Fritta and Turner 3,725]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

we need cheaper home grown options pushing up.

Totally agree; TMc pick 53, Hunt 57, Harmes was a rookie?, Fritta whilst pick 31 showed his stuff at Casey....now we dont seem to go that deep in the draft....

[Winter Dan 425]

To my mind Rosman is the future TMac replacement. 194 cm, with strong marking hands and brilliant endurance.
I think he has been out on a wing just as a waiting position. Hell I remember Chip Frawley played his first few games on a wing because he had pace. 
Rosman is a long game 

[Deestroy All 14,262]

6 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think this is a bit unfair. I think Brayshaw may be the best kick on his non-preferred side within the whole team. His right foot kicking could be better, but I've seen a lot worse.

Brayshaw uses his non preferred the most but it’s rarely a good kick. 
 

Kozzie is the best on his non preferred. 

[Wrecker46 2,673]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I'm not completely writing off Rosman but he was undeniably a risk-reward gamble and I'm comfortable to say he remains as that level of a gamble. I'm completely fine with the strategy of using a pick every now and then on a potential freak, but I still think it's long odds to pay off. Hunt did nothing for 2 years and whilst it's been bumpy since has paid off. I think Rosman's around that mark. JJ was underwhelming in year 1 too, so, sure I get your point. He was a December birthday with a lot of work to do physically. Rosman walked in as the best runner on the list and with some strenght.

The premiership has made a lot of people on here act like the club can't do any wrong and are completely infallible. Any hint of criticism gets jumped on at a rate of knots. 

I think I've been more loyal to Goodwin than the vast majority on here. I think Jason Taylor is a freak, but I don't think pointing out that whilst he's clearly in the best tier in the business he's still human. That doesn't mean I wouldn't worship the ground he walks on.

And my original point for where this Rosman discussion stemmed was that Jason Taylor has been like Bradman at recruiting but the wing has been a bit of a bodyline for him. Howes is a serious talent and a fairly decent pick in a deep enough draft and with JT's record I expect him to pay off where other moves at finding wingers have yet to pan out.

If JT can keep his perfect 2nd round draft record going and fill a need with a versatile winger than he'll only go higher up as a phenomenal recruiter and the team will only be stronger.

Every player drafted is a risk reward gamble. When you have JT the odds are stacked in your favour.

[Redlagged 806]

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I watched a lot of Casey this year and this couldn't be more more further to your statement

I'm still bemused at people like yourself who are so quick to write off kids straight away after their first year in the system. Not only was Rosman's development this year stifled by Covid but he like many other kids in their first year barely had any continuity. James Jordon is a perfect example why you don't just write off first year players. JJ show much in his first year in the VFL and some were quick to question his worth as a future AFL player. He proved many wrong this year and matched it with the best midfielders in the game. 

Rosman played exactly how I expect a raw tall athletic player would after missing a whole year of footy due to Covid. He played the first 6 games this year with Casey and he grew confident with each game and was starting to hit some find. After round 6 the season was put on hold until they resumed back again at round 11. He played only 3 games after before it was called off again. How on earth can a kid gain any momentum or form through that? it was a unfair on many young kids starting out in the AFL.

Though, i am not surprised that you're once again finding ways to be extremely negative towards the club and how they're handling the list. This is you to the Tee.

Here I was thinking a premiership would give many people on here clarification that the club has pretty much gotten it right on field and off.

 

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I watched a lot of Casey this year and this couldn't be more more further to your statement

I'm still bemused at people like yourself who are so quick to write off kids straight away after their first year in the system. Not only was Rosman's development this year stifled by Covid but he like many other kids in their first year barely had any continuity. James Jordon is a perfect example why you don't just write off first year players. JJ show much in his first year in the VFL and some were quick to question his worth as a future AFL player. He proved many wrong this year and matched it with the best midfielders in the game. 

Rosman played exactly how I expect a raw tall athletic player would after missing a whole year of footy due to Covid. He played the first 6 games this year with Casey and he grew confident with each game and was starting to hit some find. After round 6 the season was put on hold until they resumed back again at round 11. He played only 3 games after before it was called off again. How on earth can a kid gain any momentum or form through that? it was a unfair on many young kids starting out in the AFL.

Though, i am not surprised that you're once again finding ways to be extremely negative towards the club and how they're handling the list. This is you to the Tee.

Here I was thinking a premiership would give many people on here clarification that the club has pretty much gotten it right on field and off.

Anyone who takes Sparrow to task for that devastating penultimate goal in the 3rd quarter in the GF (and that deep but deadly accurate kick to Brown at the beginning of the 4th) has some serious negativity issues. On the other hand, his general point that we shouldn't automatically accept all our recruiting selections as strokes of genius is valid. Too early to make a call on Rosman. But recruiting Howes suggests we think that Rosman -  and certainly Baker - may not have long term futures. But I like Rosman  - he desperately needs to play a bit more, as you suggest. The good thing is this - there will be keen competition at the club next year.

[Demonland 65,652]

 

[dazzledavey36 48,912]

55 minutes ago, Winter Dan said:

To my mind Rosman is the future TMac replacement. 194 cm, with strong marking hands and brilliant endurance.
I think he has been out on a wing just as a waiting position. Hell I remember Chip Frawley played his first few games on a wing because he had pace. 
Rosman is a long game 

Agree.

While some may have him penciled him as a winger, i see him more of a 3rd tall defender in the Jack Gunston role. His high level work rate will enable him to be able to work up and down the ground. He's also a strong contested mark as well.

With Blake Howes coming in, I'd really like to see Rosman trial up forward over the pre season.

[BAMF 3,787]

 

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Stretch no good, Baker and Rosman not looking promising - I know that’s an early call on Rosman but he was miles off in the VFL. The 35 different options we used in 2019 like Wagner and Dunkley not working out.

JT’s been much better getting mids and flankers through the draft than wingers

It took paying top dollar for Langdon and shifting Gus to really fix it but to stay at the top we need cheaper home grown options pushing up.

 

I would say he just hasn't drafted any which is the main problem.

Stretch was an inside mid at junior level. He was a father son and I wouldn't blame Taylor for Billy not making it on the outside.

Baker with a later pick isn't looking good.

Too early to tell on Rosman.

Jordon probably should have been developing as a wing but the club put him into the inside mid role.

Taylor simply hasn't drafted any wingers or KPF to make a call in my opinion.

Edited November 26, 2021 by BAMF

[dazzledavey36 48,912]

37 minutes ago, Redlagged said:

 

Anyone who takes Sparrow to task for that devastating penultimate goal in the 3rd quarter in the GF (and that deep but deadly accurate kick to Brown at the beginning of the 4th) has some serious negativity issues. On the other hand, his general point that we shouldn't automatically accept all our recruiting selections as strokes of genius is valid. Too early to make a call on Rosman. But recruiting Howes suggests we think that Rosman -  and certainly Baker - may not have long term futures. But I like Rosman  - he desperately needs to play a bit more, as you suggest. The good thing is this - there will be keen competition at the club next year.

I questioned the Rosman selection last year especially as Jack Carroll was still available. But it made sense why he was recruited and i looked at it as a long term prospect. I think Taylor's last 3 years of recruiting is by far the best we've seen in the AFL probably since Geelong and Hawthorn nailed those picks back in the 2000's. There were some questionable picks that i was negative about when Taylor chose guys like Hulett, King, Dion Johnstone and even Lachie Fillapovic ahead of a Casey ruckman called Oscar Mcinerney.

I'll mention Jayden Hunt as another who came in as a completely raw and unknown project, his first two years he just looked completely out of his depth at VFL level but the coaching staff had other things in mind.

As I have already mentioned above, I actually think Rosman would be a much better suited to that running 3rd tall forward. 

[adonski 9,173]

Some clearer Howes footage here

 

[BDA 20,254]

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I know that’s an early call on Rosman but he was miles off in the VFL.

It is an early call. Way too early

Edited November 26, 2021 by BDA