Welcome to Demonland: Blake Howes

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, Grimes Times said:

left hand bounce, right foot kick and did he kick it to himself in the last play??

How good was he drilling it to himself?! On a serious note good to see he can move fwd and be a leading target.

[Demonland 74,430]

 

AFL Draft 2021: Demons thrilled as they secure their two main targets

[Engorged Onion 10,226]

2 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

AFL Draft 2021: Demons thrilled as they secure their two main target

What an odd opening statement...

"Melbourne has enjoyed a rare win at the national draft when it secured two of its top first-round targets exactly 20 picks apart across two nights."

[adonski 13,267]

6 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

What an odd opening statement...

"Melbourne has enjoyed a rare win at the national draft when it secured two of its top first-round targets exactly 20 picks apart across two nights."

Rare in terms of getting both its targets with an average draft hand. 

It's just poorly worded.

[Matt 424]

Paywall. Can someone put the article up?

[adonski 13,267]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

Paywall. Can someone put the article up?

Rival recruiters have lauded the reigning premier’s draft haul after snaring versatile 193cm tall Jacob Van Rooyen at No. 19 and tall wingman Blake Howes at 39.

The Demons had Howes right in the mix with their first selection and then, after opting for Van Rooyen as part of a close call, tried to strike a trade with Adelaide when Howes was still available at pick 36.

 

[mauriesy 7,444]

12 minutes ago, adonski said:

Rival recruiters have lauded the reigning premier’s draft haul

If the rival recruiters thought our draftees were that good, how come no-one selected them (especially Howes) earlier than what we did?

[Mach5 4,768]

8 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

If the rival recruiters thought our draftees were that good, how come no-one selected them (especially Howes) earlier than what we did?

I’m similarly suspicious, but could it be due to needs?

[adonski 13,267]

7 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

If the rival recruiters thought our draftees were that good, how come no-one selected them (especially Howes) earlier than what we did?

How come teams let us grab Fritsch at pick 31, or Rivers at pick 32?

Everyone sees it differently, with picks a scarce resource 

Draft was supposed to be even between picks 15-40 odd

[Dante 2,739]

How many times have you eaten out and wished you'd ordered the steak instead of the hamburger.

 

[Fritta The Hair G.O.A.T. 511]

31 minutes ago, Dante said:

How many times have you eaten out and wished you'd ordered the steak instead of the hamburger.

 

I never regret ordering a hamburger ☺️🍔

[binman 44,824]

1 hour ago, mauriesy said:

If the rival recruiters thought our draftees were that good, how come no-one selected them (especially Howes) earlier than what we did?

My guess? 

Clubs naturally look at what the premiers are doing.

West Coast are the outliers since the dogs won the flag in 2016, in so far as the other winners have all been manic contest teams with really strong, combative midfields with game plans that emphasise territory over precision ball movement.

This model requires inside mids and contested ball winners across every line. And a key element of both the tiger's and dee's game plans is top line intercepting key defenders and rebounding half back flankers with great kicking skills (the latter is true of the dogs too). 

I wonder if the other clubs, all playing catch up except the dogs and to a lesser extent the tigers (who needed an injection of young, manic energy - and drafted accordingly), prioritised such players. And conversely had less interest in outside players, wingers and key forwards such as JVR and Howes. 

We have enough inside mids and contested ball winners. And more than enough top line intercepting defenders, not to mention rebounding half back flankers with great kicking skills.

So we can afford to target a key forward AND and winger. And seem to have done exactly that 

Edited November 30, 2021 by binman

[TRACATTACK 234]

37 minutes ago, binman said:

My guess? 

Clubs naturally look at what the premiers are doing.

West Coast are the outliers since the dogs won the flag in 2016, in so far as the other winners have all been manic contest teams with really strong, combative midfields with game plans that emphasise territory over precision ball movement.

This model requires inside mids and contested ball winners across every line. And a key element of both the tiger's and dee's game plans is top line intercepting key defenders and rebounding half back flankers with great kicking skills (the latter is true of the dogs too). 

I wonder if the other clubs, all playing catch up except the dogs and to a lesser extent the tigers (who needed an injection young, manic energy - and  drafted accordingly), prioritised such players. And conversely had less interest in outside players, wingers and key forwards such as JVR and Howes. 

We have enough inside mids and contested ball winners. And more than enough top line intercepting defenders, not to mention rebounding half back flankers with great kicking skills.

So we can afford to target a key forward AND and winger. And seem to have done exactly that 

 

Agreed, we drafted for needs and by the look of it, have come up trumps. JT is future proofing our list with these young draftees.

In all my years of being a devoted Dees supporter, and it it has been a lot of years, I have never seen such a deep and balanced list.

The fight for spots in the 1's is going to be fierce next year. By the way I am a long time Demonland viewer and first time poster.

Very excited about our event at the G this Sunday for the Melbourne faithful. Great times for our beloved club

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[binman 44,824]

Just thinking about the propensity for clubs to follow the lead of premiers, i wonder if mac Andrew going so high was related to the effectiveness of the two ruck model the dees employed to such devastating effect in 2021. 

A few years ago rucks were seemingly out of favor. Now a reasonable question is can teams win flag without a gun ruck man AND a really good back up ruck. 

[old dee 24,083]

10 minutes ago, binman said:

Just thinking about the propensity for clubs to follow the lead of premiers, i wonder if mac Andrew going so high was related to the effectiveness of the two ruck model the dees employed to such devastating effect in 2021. 

A few years ago rucks were seemingly out of favor. Now a reasonable question is can teams win flag without a gun ruck man AND a really good back up ruck. 

2 good ones will get the job done. 

[Fritta and Turner 4,696]

1 hour ago, mauriesy said:

If the rival recruiters thought our draftees were that good, how come no-one selected them (especially Howes) earlier than what we did?

I must admit I do cringe when I hear 'We didnt think a quality pick like this would be available so late in the draft'.

and think of this what if scenario...

Say every other club has a different choice for Nos 1 player including MFC who thinks it is JVR. And say all the other clubs agree the 2nd best player  is JVR. So in an uncompromised draft the Dees have pick 18 and pick JVR.

So the agreed 2nd best player in the draft goes to the  Dees at pick 18 ( I know, we think it mazing)

The humidity in Cairns is pickling my brain.

[TRACATTACK 234]

11 minutes ago, binman said:

Just thinking about the propensity for clubs to follow the lead of premiers, i wonder if mac Andrew going so high was related to the effectiveness of the two ruck model the dees employed to such devastating effect in 2021. 

A few years ago rucks were seemingly out of favor. Now a reasonable question is can teams win flag without a gun ruck man AND a really good back up ruck. 

[binman 44,824]

16 minutes ago, TRACATTACK said:

 

Agreed, we drafted for needs and by the look of it, have come up trumps. JT is future proofing our list with these young draftees.

In all my years of being a devoted Dees supporter, and it it has been a lot of years, I have never seen such a deep and balanced list.

 

We were able to do so because JT and Tim lamb have one such a brilliant job getting the foundation prices in place in the last 6-7 drafts. 

[TRACATTACK 234]

Just now, TRACATTACK said:

12 minutes ago, binman said:

Just thinking about the propensity for clubs to follow the lead of premiers, i wonder if mac Andrew going so high was related to the effectiveness of the two ruck model the dees employed to such devastating effect in 2021. 

A few years ago rucks were seemingly out of favor. Now a reasonable question is can teams win flag without a gun ruck man AND a really good back up ruck. 

Dogga is already way beyond being a good back up ruck, he is the nearly 200cm hybrid prototype of a ruck/midfielder that most clubs can only aspire to emulate atmo. As a matter of fact I would also put Maxy in the category of a ruck/midfielder. His clean hands and speed over the ground for a man his size is just awesome. They are an awesome combo that will only improve.

Maxs' insistence in leaving Dogga in the centre square in the 3rd quarter was match winning and great coaching, as was adjusting our centre square setup at half time.

Mac Andrew may very well get to that level eventually but I suspect it will take him a while. It's a shame he didn't come to us as our Academy player but I wish him well, seems like a nice young man with lovely family.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,137]

39 minutes ago, binman said:

Just thinking about the propensity for clubs to follow the lead of premiers, i wonder if mac Andrew going so high was related to the effectiveness of the two ruck model the dees employed to such devastating effect in 2021. 

A few years ago rucks were seemingly out of favor. Now a reasonable question is can teams win flag without a gun ruck man AND a really good back up ruck. 

The irony of clubs following the lead of the premiers is that teams which make it to the top have often done something different from the pack, rather than follow the leader. We employed the two ruckmen model. Richmond didn't really do this (Shaun Grigg anyone?). Whether it was "Clarko's cluster" or Richmond's manic pressure, we didn't just blindly copy what went beforehand.

 

[DeeSpencer 26,675]

40 minutes ago, binman said:

Just thinking about the propensity for clubs to follow the lead of premiers, i wonder if mac Andrew going so high was related to the effectiveness of the two ruck model the dees employed to such devastating effect in 2021. 

A few years ago rucks were seemingly out of favor. Now a reasonable question is can teams win flag without a gun ruck man AND a really good back up ruck. 

Jacko and Gawn didn’t change too many games purely in the ruck, so I still think teams can get by with serviceable ruck options against most sides.

But the ruck as a forward is something that even recently has been a liability. With the right forward mix and ball movement that liability can be flipped to become really useful. Defenders are just too good for almost all key forwards. But if you move it quickly and give a ruck a run and jump at it they’re more chance of breaking even against defenders than most key forwards. The extra height, reach and physicality makes a ruck in the forward line a weapon. Especially when you can mix and match between Jackson’s athleticism and Gawn’s reach 

[chook fowler 19,772]

1 hour ago, Doggas front teeth said:

I never regret ordering a hamburger ☺️🍔

porterhouse or ribeye? Maccas or Griil'd?

[BAMF 4,483]

On 11/29/2021 at 1:12 PM, 58er said:

Still no details on Mackies weaknesses. Really I just think you comment wildly with rash generalisations and maybe your knowledge is very shallow.

Imagine if any of our Coaches reported like this a player would not know what they were good at or not. 

Really not worth reading your posts Mach 5 as they lack critical detail . M

Might be time you just blocked him then and moved on maybe.

[binman 44,824]

11 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

The irony of clubs following the lead of the premiers is that teams which make it to the top have often done something different from the pack, rather than follow the leader. We employed the two ruckmen model. Richmond didn't really do this (Shaun Grigg anyone?). Whether it was "Clarko's cluster" or Richmond's manic pressure, we didn't just blindly copy what went beforehand.

 

Agree.

The other point of difference is our defensive system, which i'd argue that whilst it has elements of other systems (eg zones, intercepts marking etc) is unique in many ways. 

That said, whilst we didn't blindly follow the tigers or the dogs there is no question we used their template of pressure, win the contest football as the foundation of our moil.

And you could also argue that we borrowed elements of the WC and cat's game plans - specifically the ability to switch to temp/hold onto the ball mode when needed. 

 

[Fat Tony 5,337]

Drafting for needs makes a bit of sense after the top few picks because the talent pool is skewed and flattens off. That said, each recruiting team has emphasis on different things, so every club thinks they picked up a player who was better (or at least worthy) of their pick. Hawthorn would only look at good kicks in the late 2000s. The Tigers have favoured speed and pressure. We have favoured players who could win contested ball. Howes and Van Rooyen were almost certainly higher on our draft board than selected.

I think we are in a bit of a unique position with our inside midfield, ruck and defensive talent being so strong. It meant that only outside midfielders and forwards would improve our best side.