2 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

David King would have got it right at some stage during the year. I may be mistaken (not a word you'll hear from many working in the media, by the way) but King seems to adopt positive and negative views of every team throughout the year, depending on what snippet of Champion Data he is looking at in isolation. His approach is consistent with what a former boss of mine used to say - set your targets after you've seen where the arrows have landed. 

Yep, he’s the flip-flop man, seemingly unaware we can see him doing it. 

Gruff the Crime Dog: “don’t get beat by what you know!”

What if it’s too [censored] good, Kingy?

1 hour ago, DeesignerAU said:

What articles have you read or vision have you seen from so-called experts that makes your blood boil?

There was an article by Garry Buckenara about the status of Melbourne's list not more than 12 months ago which makes me fume.

You can read the article here - https://www.myheartbeatstrue.com/beat-the-paywall/from-the-archive-recruiting-guru-gary-buckenara-analyses-melbourne-demons-list-after-the-2020-afl-season/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't forget to check https://www.myheartbeatstrue.com/ for all the latest demon news

What a terrible article, couldn't be so far off the mark. Even before winning the flag I would  have disagreed with so many of those points.

1 hour ago, DeesignerAU said:

Some would read the article as how much we were able to turn the club around in 12 months. Most importantly don't let it trigger you Lord Nev

I'm not 'triggered' mate, certainly not enough to start a thread about it and definitely not 'fuming'.

  

2 hours ago, DeesignerAU said:

What articles have you read or vision have you seen from so-called experts that makes your blood boil?

There was an article by Garry Buckenara about the status of Melbourne's list not more than 12 months ago which makes me fume.

 

Edited September 29, 20213 yr by Lord Nev

Mark Maclure will probably find something to carp on about. He's never had a good word for the Dees.

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Meh. Plenty of articles said we would win the flag in 2019. Where's the thread for proving them wrong?

We all make comments and predictions that end up being way off, sadly we don't get paid for it here, but why not just enjoy the good vibes and the amazing team we now have rather than go digging up some space filler articles for hindsight bashing?

 

Easy fix Nev - don't open this thread.

There are any number of peanuts in the media who have got things completely wrong about the dees. 

And many on here have parroted those same peanuts (apologies for the alliterative mixed metaphors) and used their arguments to bolster their own wrong headed arguments.

And that white noise of [censored] almost has disastrous consequences as there is no doubt it almost resulted in Goody getting axed. 

I don't need to go back 12 months either to find examples of so called experts (almost universally ex players) making ill informed comments that were based on their own preconceptions of the club, issues they have with the club or key personnel at the club, and their complete lack of understanding of what Goody was doing. 

And it drives me nuts, becuase even some passionate demons fans as evidenced by this forum, swallowed the [censored].  

Just once recent example was the almost universal lack of proper pre game analysis of the grand final and likely outcomes. So many 'experts' had the game as a toss of the coin when all evidence suggested we were clear favorites. And that a blow out was very much on the cards.

No surprise that the betting odds reflected that reality. We were 1.65 to win. And only 5.50 to win by more than 39 points. The betting pools are in the tens of millions for the GF. Most of that is money from professional punters. Who lose money if they get it wrong. Unlike the footy experts. 

An even more recent example is the 'one goal from breaking narrative' around the third quarter. The dogs were fantastic in the first 10 minutes of that quarter and their pressure was off the charts (210 at the 10 minute mark). But unlike the second quarter we were matching them for pressure.

We were struggling to transition it into our forward half and had to repel multiple inside 50s from them. But that's what we do. As the stats clearly show (lowest EVER opposition scores to inside 50 ratio at only 35%) no team is better at dealing with opposition inside 50s, and no team is more comfortable with the ball in their defensive half. We have shown this all season.

We have also shown in the last six weeks that our offence can be devastating. For Pete's sake we had just decimated one of the best defences the AFL in the prelim, having touched up the lions in the QF. And of course we had run down a 44 point lead in just over a quarter against the cats in round 23. 

And we are the fittest side in the AFL by a mile and as a result our record in last quarters this season - and even more so in the finals - is simply phenomenal

All this is basic knowledge. And the experts should have been pointing all this out- before, during and after the game.

Why? Because that is their jobs. And it would help fans, neutral and otherwise understand what was was likely to happen, what was happening and what happened. 

And they should have pointed out that the issue wasn't us folding, the issue was that the Dogs threw everything at us and could only score two goals for all that work. Given all the evidence i note above, the dogs were the team that was on the brink. They simply had to to put more goals on the board in the third. Two was never going to be enough - and so it proved. 

And i'm not being harry hindsight. In my match preview post in the game day thread i noted:

• 'We are fitter and stronger than the dogs and will run out the game better. As we have shown all season, if the dogs have a lead at 3 quarter time they will struggle to hold us off. Conversely if we have a lead, which i expect we will, we will be very hard to run down.....

  The major issue for the dogs is that we are unlikely to concede more than 70 points. Which means they have to keep us under 70 points to win. On a perfect deck, in perfect conditions and with our offensive weapons' and ability to generate repeat inside 50s on back of forward half pressure, they will struggle mightily to do so.' 

Unless they are driving an agenda or are well out of order, I don't have an issue with fans getting things wrong about the dees. We all have had to develop our own coping mechanism to deal with our decades long lack of success.

Catastrophizing was no doubt helpful for some, just as my relentless optimism that each season was a new dawn has helped me for 40 years (and driven my demons mate nuts and given non demons mates plenty of fodder for getting stuck into me).

But people paid to express opinions about our club should be held to account when they are lazy, do not do the work and allow their own agenda to colour what they write or say in the media. 

Note, that i didn't say they have to be right, Being wrong is ok. Just not when that opinion is based on a quick sand of [censored]. 

So I for one am going to take this thread as opportunity to vent some of my frustration and highlight some of the so called experts who i think got things egregiously wrong. 

 

 

Edited September 29, 20213 yr by binman

1 minute ago, binman said:

Easy fix - don't read the article

💁‍♂️

If you go back to 2016 he said almost identical things about the Tigers and I'd recommend you all try find this and have a read.

It is actually now a good thing for Buckenara to not rate you, as you will likely win the flag the next year.

He is honestly a complete joke of a list analyst and has no clue.

15 minutes ago, binman said:

Easy fix Nev - don't open this thread.

There are any number of peanuts in the media who have got things completely wrong about the dees. 

And many on here have parroted those same peanuts (apologies for the alliterative mixed metaphors) and used their arguments to bolster their own wrong headed arguments.

And that white noise of [censored] almost has disastrous consequences as there is no doubt it almost resulted in Goody getting axed. 

I don't need to go back 12 months either to find examples of so called experts (almost universally ex players) making ill informed comments that were based on their own preconceptions of the club, issues they have with the club or key personnel at the club, and their complete lack of understanding of what Goody was doing. 

And it drives me nuts, becuase even some passionate demons fans as evidenced by this forum, swallowed the [censored].  

Just once recent example was the almost universal lack of proper pre game analysis of the grand final and likely outcomes. So many 'experts' had the game as a toss of the coin when all evidence suggested we were clear favorites. And that a blow out was very much on the cards.

No surprise that the betting odds reflected that reality. We were 1.65 to win. And only 5.50 to win by more than 39 points. The betting pools are in the tens of millions for the GF. Most of that is money from professional punters. Who lose money if they get it wrong. Unlike the footy experts. 

An even more recent example is the 'one goal from breaking narrative' around the third quarter. The dogs were fantastic in the first 10 minutes of that quarter and their pressure was off the charts (210 at the 10 minute mark). But unlike the second quarter we were matching them for pressure.

We were struggling to transition it into our forward half and had to repel multiple inside 50s from them. But that's what we do. As the stats clearly show (lowest EVER opposition goals to inside 50 ratio at only 35%) no team is better at dealing with opposition inside 50s, and no team is more comfortable with the ball in their defensive half. We have shown this all season.

We have shown in the last six weeks that our offence can be devastating. For Petes sake we had just decimated one of the best defences the AFL in the prelim, having touched up the lions in the QF. And of course we had run down a 44 point lead in just over a quarter against the cats in round 23. 

And we are the fittest side in the AFL by a mile and as result our record in last quarters this season - and even more so in the finals - is simply phenomenal

All this is basic knowledge. And the experts should have been pointing all this out- before, during and after the game. Why? Because that is their jobs. And it would help fans, neutral and otherwise understand what was was likely to happen and what was happening. 

And they should have pointed out that the issue wasn't us folding, the issue was that the Dogs threw everything at us and could only score two goals for all that work. Given all the evidence i note above, the dogs were the team that was on the brink. They simply had to to put more goals on the board in the third. Two was never going to be enough - and so it proved. 

And i'm not being harry hindsight. In my match preview post in the game day thread i noted:

• 'We are fitter and stronger than the dogs and will run out the game better. As we have shown all season, if the dogs have a lead at 3 quarter time they will struggle to hold us off. Conversely if we have a lead, which i expect we will, we will be very hard to run down.....

  The major issue for the dogs is that we are unlikely to concede more than 70 points. Which means they have to keep us under 70 points to win. On a perfect deck, in perfect conditions and with our offensive weapons' and ability to generate repeat inside 50s on back of forward half pressure, they will struggle mightily to do so.' 

Unless they are driving an agenda or are well out of order, I don't have an issue with fans getting things wrong about the dees. We all have had to develop our own coping mechanism to deal with our decades long lack of success.

Catastrophizing was no doubt helpful for some, just as my relentless optimism that each season was a new dawn has helped me for 40 years (and driven my demons mate nuts and given non demons mates plenty of fodder for getting stuck into me).

But people paid to express opinions about our club should be held to account when they are lazy, do not do the work and allow their own agenda to colour what they write or say in the media. 

Note, that i didn't say they have to be right, Being wrong is ok. Just not when that opinion is based on a quick sand of [censored]. 

So I for one am going to take this thread as opportunity to name and shame 'experts' who got things egregiously wrong. 

 

 

I like this post a lot. (Except for the last line. It seems to diminish the value of the rest of the excellent post.)

7 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I like this post a lot. (Except for the last line. It seems to diminish the value of the rest of the excellent post.)

Good point, well made. Fixed

Any chance of changing this thread title to "Seriously Bucked Up" ?

Edited September 29, 20213 yr by TRIGON

Btw, @DeesignerAU, brilliant website, perfectly suited to this week! 

Did he seriously say put clarry up for trade???????

hahahahahahahahaha 😂 😂 😂

CRYSTAL BALL

I was wrong about Melbourne. Since 2018 I’ve been waiting to see them kick on since making the preliminary final, I thought they were ready to challenge for a premiership in 2019 and 2020.

But I now believe this group can’t win a premiership and a major change in direction is needed in their list management and recruiting strategies, and a big list cull and rebuild to find players that bring those four non-negotiable traits – skills, footy smarts, competitiveness and character.

 

WE MUST ENSURE THAT GARY BUCKENARA PREDICTS WE WILL HAVE A MASSIVE PREMIERSHIP HANGOVER

Like many analysts he doesn’t look into the future he looks at the present. It means that all he’s doing stating what would appear obvious to most football fans and not people with genuine analytical knowledge. Montagna to his credit rates us from the start of the year and a few scoffed at him. 

But Buckenara’s biggest facepalm call is surely suggesting we trade out Oliver! I mean c’mon the guy was an out and out gun last year that needed more support. Calling Petracca a B-grader as well was boldly dumb. 

Ah well stuff him, he can eat his words now!

Is this the same Buckenara that has rated Geelong's list as having 9 A graders and 16 B graders in today's paper?

4 hours ago, AllMyTeamsAreWank said:

I've been trying to find a similar article that's headline was "what do Melbourne stand for?" Pretty sure it was John Ralph who wrote it, but haven't been able to track it down. Was written after the dogs beat us in preseason and we had a huge amount of players out for that game. 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2021-preseason-western-bulldogs-vs-melbourne-demons-live-scores-updates-aami-community-series-stats-video-stream/news-story/8a6979278fffb2104f9746e99238bba1

 

This one?

1 hour ago, Demonised said:

Mark Maclure will probably find something to carp on about. He's never had a good word for the Dees.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-melbourne-soft-culture-mark-maclure-urges-demons-to-set-standards-simon-goodwin-contract/news-story/39f33e49dc7216989d1da137e265c4e8

 

‘Stand up and set some standards’: Mark Maclure urges Dees players to help fix ‘soft culture’

5 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-melbourne-soft-culture-mark-maclure-urges-demons-to-set-standards-simon-goodwin-contract/news-story/39f33e49dc7216989d1da137e265c4e8

 

‘Stand up and set some standards’: Mark Maclure urges Dees players to help fix ‘soft culture’

Ironic that his old side are the ones who need to fix a soft culture.... actually a soft culture is probably not strong enough words to represent their culture.

4 hours ago, Webber said:

Not just fabulously wrong, but so sure he was right. 
I’d also love to hear how other perennial ‘Dees haters’ feel about this premiership - Leigh Matthews, Mark Maclure, Mick Malthouse immediately spring to mind. 
And how much I’d love a compilation of David King’s ignorant mis-readings of our qualities and our chances through the year. Mr. Weekly Reactionary himself. 

Dunstall one of the worst of all.  Nick 'little nick' Del Santo right there as well.  He's a loser anyway.  Won nothing the clown.

As for David King?  Refuse to listen to him.  As in if he is on a show with others I mute him when he speaks.  Context gets lost sometimes but it doesn't matter.  Just a fat, daily chicken-parma consuming, gambling addict.

 

The binman media awards scoring system:

One peanut:

Often got it very wrong, but no apparent agenda and all in all pretty harmless

Two peanuts:

More often than not got it very wrong, possible agenda, failed to do the required research and all in all pretty hopeless

Three peanuts:

The highest award.

Counterintuitively sometimes gets it right, but just as likely to contradict themselves a few days later - and sometimes even in the same sentence.

But consistently gets it wrong and often doubles down on the wrongness.

Often appears to have an obvious agenda or axe to grind. Almost always cannot get past their preconceptions, suffers terribly from confirmation bias and looks for every opportunity to find evidence that supports that bias.

Confuses spouting stats with analysis.

Highly likely to be an overweight ex footballer who like to wear open necked pastel shirts that at first glance might suggest they are super built.

Edited September 29, 20213 yr by binman

14 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-melbourne-soft-culture-mark-maclure-urges-demons-to-set-standards-simon-goodwin-contract/news-story/39f33e49dc7216989d1da137e265c4e8

 

‘Stand up and set some standards’: Mark Maclure urges Dees players to help fix ‘soft culture’

We are being critical of comments like this but this is exactly what the club did, same as the first article. All the journos were doing was stating the bleeding obvious, we had to become ruthless and stop accepting losing, we had to improve our forward line, we had to get the reward for ruck domination and had to improve our disposal and decision making.  

Guess what we did improve on all these areas and we get the ultimate result.  

Edited September 29, 20213 yr by drdrake

Speaking of peanuts and being wrong.

Where in the world is Olisik and Dr. D?

Gone back to their actual clubs? Over to Saintsational to troll St Kilda fans?

I know this isn't from this year, but my hatred for BT has made me dig this one up again 

https://www.zerohanger.com/demons-wont-make-finals-brian-taylor-22854/

16 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Stand up and set some standards’: Mark Maclure urges Dees players to help fix ‘soft culture

The worst mainstream comments person on radio. Just one of so many times he’s shot off his irrelevant mouth. The truth is his Dee-bagging has always allowed him to feel better about his Blues. That’s where it comes from. 

7 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Dunstall one of the worst of all. 

The old Dunstall maybe. Completely turned around now. I have face to face experience (just after round 23 game) of him lauding this year’s Dees. Also, watch him with Whateley on Monday’s AFL 360. He’s never been so enthusiastic about a team’s performance.