2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Steven May on SEN today -

“At Melbourne we have been trying to educate and raise awareness regarding racial vilification. The person at the Crows who came forward is extremely brave, and I don't think that would have happened a few years ago.”

[censored] I love Maysie. Serious man crush, what a guy.

I know this thread can only end one way. It’s unlikely to end harmoniously. That being said, I do need to say something.

After what’s happened over the last six years (and particularly after the insipid leadership shown during the vilification of Adam Goodes), an unmistakable line in the sand needs to be drawn. Firm moral leadership needs to be demonstrated to even remotely approach some type of marginal redemption for the deplorable treatment indigenous players in the AFL/VFL have copped from both supporters and players over the last 60 years (though with thankfully less impunity compared to the filth players like Robbie Muir, Chris Lewis and Nicky Winmar were subject to). 

I can’t remember who exactly, but someone on here incredulously intimated that racism wasn’t a problem in the AFL ‘because Eddie McGuire was gone’.

Firstly, that’s an amazingly naive comment if taken at face value. Secondly, it’s clearly contradicted by reality with this coming to light. A milquetoast response will just give license to those who are genuinely bigoted, cynical and misanthropic to push the boundaries. Thirdly, if we are to be more cynical, the above statement is more an example of how these situations get muddied by bad faith actors to so distort reality that genuine dialogue is impossible.

Racism exists in Australia and deemphasizing or pettifogging it, or engaging in ‘whataboutery’, only aggravates the legacy of pain it has created in that country. Sometimes when I come on here and read some of the commentary about race issues (see some of the commentary in the Harley Bennell/racial vilification thread of last year when one or two posters straight up said that white people were the real victims of racism these days), I legitimately cringe at the thought that our supporters of color might read it and take that image away of our supporter base, and that they might feel their perspective and life experience isn’t valued. Rather, it’s held in contempt.

There is a tendency in AFL circles when racial vilification comes up to ask how the perpetrator feels when they’ve been outed. Indeed, if people who aren’t aware of the gravity of their words do say something hideous in a fit of confusion or ineloquence, then they need to be held accountable but given support to be better (proven racists and edgelord trolls can go and get fornicated). But we always need to unequivocally stand with those being vilified first and foremost. No if’s, buts, or maybes. FMI, see Matthew Nicks’ statement earlier today.

I don’t mean to start a brawl with this last post, and I know as well @daisycutterthat your use of the ‘tar and feather and lynching’ analogy is most likely a misspoken statement. Nonetheless, it really is a TERRIBLE analogy to use in this case.

People did get tarred and feathered as well as lynched most famously in the US South pre and post civil war in the case of the latter. Alas, it usually wasn’t famous white sportsmen on the end of the rope … 😢

Edited August 6, 20213 yr by Colin B. Flaubert
Cleaned some parts up and wanted to add one more point

8 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I know this thread can only end one way. It’s unlikely to end harmoniously. That being said, I do need to say something.

After what’s happened over the last six years (and particularly after the insipid leadership shown during the vilification of Adam Goodes), an unmistakable line in the sand needs to be drawn. Firm moral leadership needs to be demonstrated to even remotely approach some type of marginal redemption for the deplorable treatment players in the AFL/VFL have copped from both supporters and players over the last 60 years (though with thankfully less impunity compared to the filth players like Robbie Muir, Chris Lewis and Nicky Winmar were subject to). 

I can’t remember who exactly, but someone on here incredulously intimated that racism wasn’t a problem in the AFL ‘because Eddie McGuire was gone’.

Firstly, that’s an amazingly naive comment if taken at face value. Secondly, it’s clearly contradicted by reality with this coming to light. A milquetoast response will just give license to those who are genuinely bigoted, cynical and misanthropic to push the boundaries. 

Racism exists in Australia and deemphasizing or pettifogging, or engaging in ‘whataboutery’, only aggravates the legacy of pain it has created in this country. Sometimes when I come on here and read some of the commentary about race issues (see some of the commentary in the Harley Bennell/racial vilification thread of last year when one or two posters straight up said that white people were the real victims of racism these days), I legitimately cringe at the thought that our supporters of color might read it and take that image away of our supporter base, and that they might feel their perspective and life experience isn’t valued. Rather, it’s held in contempt.

There is a tendency in AFL circles when racial vilification comes up to ask how the perpetrator feels when they’ve been outed. Indeed, if people who aren’t aware of the gravity of their words do say something hideous in a fit of confusion or ineloquence, then they need to be held accountable but given support to be better (proven racists and edgelord trolls can go and get fornicated). But we always need to unequivocally stand with those being vilified first and foremost. No if’s, buts, or maybes. FMI, see Matthew Nicks’ statement earlier today.

I don’t mean to start a brawl with this last post, and I know as well @daisycutterthat your use of the ‘tar and feather and lynching’ analogy is most likely a misspoken statement. Nonetheless, it really is a TERRIBLE analogy to use in this case.

People did get tarred and feathered as well as lynched most famously in the US South pre and post civil war. Alas, it wasn’t usually famous white sportsmen on the end of the rope or being humiliated… 😢

you're right colin it was an unfortunate analogy (esp in the us sense) and honestly unintentional. i should have used another epithet like "baying for blood" or something similar......bit l;ate now to correct but i will anyway

Tex always sounded like a redneck nickname... evoking an image of good ole cowboy from west texas

...RedNex probably more appropriate 

Worth watching Nicks' press conf:  emotional-nicks-stands-with-indigenous-players-in-wake-of-walker-slur especially the first 10 minutes.

Raw.  Powerful. Poignant.

Tex may be lucky to play again.

 

21 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Worth watching Nicks' press conf:  emotional-nicks-stands-with-indigenous-players-in-wake-of-walker-slur especially the first 10 minutes.

Raw.  Powerful. Poignant.

Tex may be lucky to play again.

 

But why the waterworks from Nicks?

Surely if he had set expected standards of behavior regarding racial vilification he would be angry and dissapointed at Taylor for breaching those standards. Clearly there were no standards and the complaint was not raised internally at the Crows but taken directly to the AFL.   Either someone had a grudge for Taylor or thought that raising it internally would go nowhere - which reflects poorly on the Crows culture.

More of selfish display and reverse leadership from Nicks than anything.

 

 

I remember a few years ago Taylor Walker trained in an Indigenous guernsey out of solidarity with Eddie Betts after he was abused by a spectator. It seemed like empty virtue signalling at the time and that appears to be the case.

Reminds me of Eddie Maguire taking the AFL to task for allowing Tom Jones to sing Delilah at the Grand Final... only to then publicly joke about drowning Caroline Wilson.

Edited August 6, 20213 yr by wisedog

1 hour ago, RickyJ45 said:

But why the waterworks from Nicks?

Surely if he had set expected standards of behavior regarding racial vilification he would be angry and dissapointed at Taylor for breaching those standards. Clearly there were no standards and the complaint was not raised internally at the Crows but taken directly to the AFL.   Either someone had a grudge for Taylor or thought that raising it internally would go nowhere - which reflects poorly on the Crows culture.

More of selfish display and reverse leadership from Nicks than anything.

 

 

Sorry Ricky this is a pretty poor post mate. 

Nicks is a quality person.  You neglected to mention or perhaps didn't listen to him discuss reaching out to people close to him that have been hurt by such BS in the past.

He played with Micky O and a bloke called Adam Goodes who to this day has distanced himself from the AFL since he was run out of the game. 

Six weeks is a slap on the wrist. This is disgraceful. There is talk of self reporting   , however that is hollow as Tex said it without a thought and this is the problem.

If the official doesn’t say anything …Tex goes about his business and the attitudes to race remain unchallenged.

The AFL must increase the penalty. I don’t think 22 weeks is unreasonable. 

7 hours ago, whitito said:

The AFL must increase the penalty. I don’t think 22 weeks is unreasonable. 

There is a de jure and de facto punishment involved in this. 

Listening to Nicks, there is a lot of work to be done and water to go under the bridge until Tex is accepted back as part of the Crows playing group. And it’s not guaranteed that the process they will go through will see him redeemed and re-embraced.

As @Lucifer's Herosuggested, there could be a possibility that Walker has played his last game for the Crows after this. How can he now face up to the indigenous players in Adelaide’s playing group, and maintain the type of trust required to function as their teammate? It can be done as I believe people can be better and change, but it’s not guaranteed.

The fact the Crows and Nicks have been so firm on this probably means 6 to 12 weeks plus a substantial fine is about right. Definitely a higher end suspension was required considering, as Nicks pointed out, the amount of anti-racist training they get, not to mention the Goodes/Lumumba/Do Better sagas of the last decade. This makes this absolutely appalling and flabbergasting. For crying out loud, racial vilification in the AFL started to become unacceptable in 1995 after the Long/Monkhorst incident. It’s not like he couldn’t have known.

If the Crows didn’t show the type of leadership they did, I’d agree something stronger might be needed.

I have so much respect for Matthew Nicks as a person now. He really is a man of substance and his reaction is to be commended. 

Edited August 6, 20213 yr by Colin B. Flaubert
Just wanted to add a couple more points

Mathew Nicks looked close to tears. Time for Walker to clean out his locker. Career might be cooked

I will be booing Tex next time he plays against us. I detest racism.

When the AFL world turned on Goodes - that revealed the collective character of the game and our society. This is prevalent; we are a racist society.

BUT people like that Crows staffer and players pointing out racists at games is a step in the right direction.

Next step is on us to not be comfortable with “well I don’t say those things” to “when I hear those things I confront the person and make it clear to everyone around that it isn’t acceptable.”

Any reports of what he actually said?

racists comments are not on but be interested to know if it was an aggressive vindictive racial comment or more a trying to be what would have been thought to be " funny" 40 years ago jokey type comment. Both totally unacceptable

Eddie Betts and Charlie Cameron two prominent indigenous players left the club during his tenure as Adelaide Captain…coincident or not?  

Let’s also not forget how poorly he treated Jake Lever when he decided to leave the Crows….
 

9 hours ago, wisedog said:

I remember a few years ago Taylor Walker trained in an Indigenous guernsey out of solidarity with Eddie Betts after he was abused by a spectator. It seemed like empty virtue signalling at the time and that appears to be the case.

Reminds me of Eddie Maguire taking the AFL to task for allowing Tom Jones to sing Delilah at the Grand Final... only to then publicly joke about drowning Caroline Wilson.

 

Begs the question " Why did this AFL club continue with this man as their Captain'  I remember a game a few years ago when Sloane was concussed and in his confusion refused to get off the field. It was Eddie Betts who went straight to Slaone to support him off the field while Tex was unmoved in the forward line.At the time I was thinking Eddie showed more leadership than that boofhead. Could have made a difference to the Crows culture if changes were considered then.

10 hours ago, RickyJ45 said:

Clearly there were no standards and the complaint was not raised internally at the Crows but taken directly to the AFL. 

There is a standard. Don’t make racist remarks. It’s universal and understood by everyone

There have been a few strange takes on this issue in this thread. Makes me wonder

14 hours ago, rjay said:

Don't take this the wrong way...we can work to eradicate the words but what troubles me is the thinking behind the words.

For all the enquiries and work on racist issues in the AFL It's obviously still there and at club level, not just the odd bogan in the crowd.

The words are hurtful but why do AFL players in particular still have this racist thinking? I'm guessing Tex is not the only one by the way, that would be impossible to believe. So whilst he's been caught out voicing his thoughts others will be harbouring the same thinking.

Footballers are an extension of society, just that they get more publicity. Moronic NRL behaviour is not exclusive to those players. They are a reflection of some quarters.

Walker is this also, which is the very sad aspect of this. There's plenty more like him around. Why is the Govt. stalling on the Statement to the Heart Issue? They understand large parts of the Australian public are ambivalent to this issue at best.

Someone earlier said here he should clean out his locker. Spot on and a test here for the Crows 'culture change'

Matthew Nicks comments were heartfelt and probably a reflection of his closeness to Adam Goodes.

I hope, and am sure, the Dees are looking after our's such as AA full back S. May.

14 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

He does now and its certainly not to be envied Et.

I'm casting my mind forward to the next GF when the retired players do a lap of the arena saying goodbye and letting fans acknowledge them.

Walker will find out the esteem in which he is/was held as a player/skipper by the afl public.

Should be silence or maybe turning of backs. on him en masse.

I am sick of 'remorse' and heartfelt apologies from grown men and women, especialy when I reflect on the class of our Neville jetta, May, Davey, Farmer etc. and how the Dees have embraced this issue.

His legacy now will be the lousy leadership against the Tiges in 2017, jake Lever commentary, and this.

1 hour ago, Wrecker46 said:

I will be booing Tex next time he plays against us. I detest racism.

I don’t think booing Walker (or any other sportsman for that matter) is helpful. To me booing is another negative aspect of the game that has intensified in recent times but should be nipped in the bud. All booing achieves is setting one section of the crowd against another and risk unsettling players not actually targeted. It is low-key ‘lynch mob’ mentality. We should stick to applauding great moments in a game.

6 week ban puts him 3 weeks into next season.  Wonder what his contract term is- didn’t he just get another year?  Don’t know what was said, but huge kudos to the official for doing what was right rather than what was easy.  Given how clearly out of social standards this is, might be hard for him to get past this one. Not a good look, and will impact his legacy I reckon.

The biggest cultural problem the Crows have is Tex Walker and always has been.

Ordinary when Lever left and ordinary when Lever returned there to play at AO. Ordinary during the aftermath of the ill-fated camp a few years ago. Ordinary when he gave Fritsch an absolute gobful before he took a set-shot this year. and very ordinary with these remarks. There are plenty of other examples over the years.

He's just an ordinary individual whom i never liked or respected. 

2 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

There is a de jure and de facto punishment involved in this. 

Hi Colin! Please if you will, explain what these terms mean. 

6 minutes ago, BDA said:

The biggest cultural problem the Crows have is Tex Walker and always has been.

Ordinary when Lever left and ordinary when Lever returned there to play at AO. Ordinary during the aftermath of the ill-fated camp a few years ago. Ordinary when he gave Fritsch an absolute gobful before he took a set-shot this year. and very ordinary with these remarks. There are plenty of other examples over the years.

He's just an ordinary individual whom i never liked or respected. 

Not just ordinary.. bog ordinary