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Following Viney's 2 game suspension (and arguable drop of form) - it would seem as though we have a hole in our midfield for a third on-baller. Why haven't we given Gus a go back on the ball in the position he dominated in 2018? He has past the worst of his concussion and James Jordon has played very well as that defensive wingman in the past. Is there something I'm missing?

Everyone remembers Gus' game against Adelaide where he racked up 37 possessions and 3 goals - wouldn't be the worst tactical change come finals time. Looking at what his brother is doing over at Freo, we all know Gus can match it and go one better!

It also allows Tracca to spend more time as that dangerous Dusty-type player up forward as Oliver's midfield workload would be shared with Gus.

Edited by trucka
another point
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2 minutes ago, BDA said:

If it ain't broken don't fix it

Finals is a different brand of footy. No one wants to be too predictable. I reckon we could do worse than having Gus in the guts as a finals wildcard with Tracca as a goalsquare forward. I can't think of a better on-ball combo than Oliver-Gus-Harmes with CP5 forward (given Jordon plays that wing role so well). Just my opinion of course.

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He makes us too slow on transition. There’s a lot of footage over 2019-20 with Brayshaw in the midfield where he can’t go with his opponent. It’s one of the reasons he’s playing defensive wing. He’s responsible for 2/3rds of his side of the ground, and doing such a good job. I love what he’s done this year. It’s working really well and doesn’t need to change.

We need more spark, burst and versatility in the middle if anything. More bursts of Kozzie and Jordan.

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52 minutes ago, trucka said:

Following Viney's 2 game suspension (and arguable drop of form) - it would seem as though we have a hole in our midfield for a third on-baller. Why haven't we given Gus a go back on the ball in the position he dominated in 2018? He has past the worst of his concussion and James Jordon has played very well as that defensive wingman in the past. Is there something I'm missing?

Everyone remembers Gus' game against Adelaide where he racked up 37 possessions and 3 goals - wouldn't be the worst tactical change come finals time. Looking at what his brother is doing over at Freo, we all know Gus can match it and go one better!

It also allows Tracca to spend more time as that dangerous Dusty-type player up forward as Oliver's midfield workload would be shared with Gus.

Gus has been really important on the wing this season. It is a hard position to play that involves a lot of defensive spread and and pressure acts that can go unnoticed (although not by the coaches). And he has had to work hard to learn how to play the role so well. 

Defensively has improved out of sight. He gets involved in a lot of contests, and importantly many of them in the the back half. Interestingly he is averaging 7.2 contested possession a game this season, which is only marginally less than his career average of 8. By way of comparison Salem averages 5.5 contested possession a game this season.

And I reckon his marking is increasingly important in stopping teams transition.  

The other thing is that Gus is not not in Tracc's league as a mid. Few are. Apart from his brilliance, tracc is possibly the strongest mid in the AFL and the best and getting a possession off when being tackled and fighting his way through tackles. He is worth two mids.

This is key to our set up of allowing the opposition an extra at the contest  and having our extra behind the ball. We would lose too may clearances if tracc played less time as a mid and more time up forward. And so would struggle to implement our preferred set up. Which in turn would impact on our ability to win intercepts in the back half.

 

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5 minutes ago, binman said:

Gus has been really important on the wing this season. It is a hard position to play that involves a lot of defensive spread and and pressure acts that can go unnoticed (although not by the coaches). And he has had to work hard to learn how to play the role so well. 

Defensively has improved out of sight. He gets involved in a lot of contests, and importantly many of them in the the back half. Interestingly he is averaging 7.2 contested possession a game this season, which is only marginally less than his career average of 8. By way of comparison Salem averages 5.5 contested possession a game this season.

And I reckon his marking is increasingly important in stopping teams transition.  

The other thing is that Gus is not not in Tracc's league as a mid. Few are. Apart from his brilliance, tracc is possibly the strongest mid in the AFL and the best and getting a possession off when being tackled and fighting his way through tackles. He is worth two mids.

This is key to our set up of allowing the opposition an extra at the contest  and having our extra behind the ball. We would lose too may clearances if tracc played less time as a mid and more time up forward. And so would struggle to implement our preferred set up. Which in turn would impact on our ability to win intercepts in the back half.

 

That is why we need a completely defensive minded contested midfielder in stoppage. JJ has the tank to roam the defensive wing and will work harder then Brayshaw in the spread. 

Brayshaw has the contested and stoppage craft and now with his improved attitude towards role playing, will be an ideal candidate to play that defensive role in the centre and stoppages - he wont do the stupid things like trying to take on 3 tacklers. He is smart and will help the team transition from in-to-out. If there is a tag involved, then Brayshaw probably stays on the wing and JJ or Harmes come in... nevertheless it would be worth experimenting to see if we could do something a little less predictable come finals. 

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10 minutes ago, binman said:

Gus has been really important on the wing this season. It is a hard position to play that involves a lot of defensive spread and and pressure acts that can go unnoticed (although not by the coaches). And he has had to work hard to learn how to play the role so well. 

Defensively has improved out of sight. He gets involved in a lot of contests, and importantly many of them in the the back half. Interestingly he is averaging 7.2 contested possession a game this season, which is only marginally less than his career average of 8. By way of comparison Salem averages 5.5 contested possession a game this season.

And I reckon his marking is increasingly important in stopping teams transition.  

The other thing is that Gus is not not in Tracc's league as a mid. Few are. Apart from his brilliance, tracc is possibly the strongest mid in the AFL and the best and getting a possession off when being tackled and fighting his way through tackles. He is worth two mids.

This is key to our set up of allowing the opposition an extra at the contest  and having our extra behind the ball. We would lose too may clearances if tracc played less time as a mid and more time up forward. And so would struggle to implement our preferred set up. Which in turn would impact on our ability to win intercepts in the back half.

 

Exactly right.  He is averaging 5 + intercepts a game, which by a quick glance is one of the highest by a non defender in the league. 

He's incredibly important in our game plan to slow up the opposition rebounds reading the play so well, cutting off passes and defensive spread. 

Our system really matters to Goodwin and he's been one of the key aspects of success of our system this year. Id be a little surprised if Goodwin suddenly went with this route now when it doesn't appear the system is broken. 

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24 minutes ago, CYB said:

nevertheless it would be worth experimenting to see if we could do something a little less predictable come finals. 

Pre season is the time to experiment.

Three weeks out from a finals campaign is not. 

If we beat West Coast, we will have beaten every team in the top 8. So we know we have a game plan, systems, set up and structure that works against the best teams, and therefore in finals. Why on earth would they want to change any part of tjhat system tat this satge of the season? 

And i don't understand what the issue is with predictability, or why we would want to charge players role to be less predictable.

I suspect we will introduce some minor tactical tweaks and set plays in the finals to create some new looks or disrupt opposition planning.

But given their focus on the importance of each player playing their assigned role, and how hard player must work to make their role second nature, i can't see the logic of changing anyone's role at this stage of the season

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21 minutes ago, CYB said:

That is why we need a completely defensive minded contested midfielder in stoppage. JJ has the tank to roam the defensive wing and will work harder then Brayshaw in the spread. 

Brayshaw has the contested and stoppage craft and now with his improved attitude towards role playing, will be an ideal candidate to play that defensive role in the centre and stoppages - he wont do the stupid things like trying to take on 3 tacklers. He is smart and will help the team transition from in-to-out. If there is a tag involved, then Brayshaw probably stays on the wing and JJ or Harmes come in... nevertheless it would be worth experimenting to see if we could do something a little less predictable come finals. 

His stoppage craft is second to none. Has a strong kicking efficiency and a natural ability to win the ball. I don't see any harm in taking a punt for finals and playing Gus in his natural, best position. Particularly with the suspension and drop of form in Viney and Jordon's ability to play strongly as a defensive winger. 

Just as a glance - 2018 3rd in the Brownlow, on-baller Angus Brayshaw was ranked elite for metres gained, inside 50s, score involvements and contested marks. He can still play that critical role of locking the ball in attacking 50 as a defensive on-baller whilst significantly bolstering our stoppages and effective disposals. We need our highly effective and damaging players to lead high our midfield possessions if we are going to have the luxury of resting Trac up forward to shake up the forward line - I say look no further then Gus. 

I am not discrediting the superb wing role he's played this year. I would just love to see him have a larger role in winning possessions closer to the footy. 

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4 minutes ago, binman said:

Pre season is the time to experiment.

Three weeks out from a finals campaign is not. 

If we beat West Coast, we will have beaten every team in the top 8. So we know we have a game plan, systems, set up and structure that works against the best teams, and therefore in finals. Why on earth would they want to change any part of tjhat system tat this satge of the season? 

And i don't understand what the issue is with predictability, or why we would want to charge players role to be less predictable.

I suspect we will introduce some minor tactical tweaks and set plays in the finals to create some new looks or disrupt opposition planning.

But given their focus on the importance of each player playing their assigned role, and how hard player must work to make their role second nature, i can't see the logic of changing anyone's role at this stage of the season

Perhaps you're right. Maybe it's correct to play the brand that's lead us to being so high on the ladder. I just think it's worth a shout just outside of finals - probably safer to experiment with this closer to the pre-season but it's certainly worth experimenting at some stage. 

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Its a no from me.

Especially after his best game for a while.

Wouldnt mind seing Spargo have a shot.

Hes fearless.

Gets the head high free

His disposal is first class.

Just a thought.

Edited by leave it to deever
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I thought Kozzie was ok running through the middle earlier in the season as well.
Like Bradshaw on wing, his sweeping work gives us a lot of repeat 50 entries.

 

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2 minutes ago, allanjakovich said:

Does anyone here actually think Viney, JJ or Harmes are satisfactory starting on-ballers in a team that genuinely fancies themselves as a potential premier? You're kidding yourselves - good depth players at best.

#getgusintheguts

 

 

Look at the dogs M3 - bont, libba, MCCRAE 
look at the lions M3 - neale, zorko, LYONS
look at the cats M3-  dangerfield, selwood, GUTHRIE
I just think if we've got the quality, flaunt it. Instead of the dees third midfielder being Harmes or Viney (who is struggling with fitness and form at the moment, not to mention suspension - albiet i still love him at his best) it could be a bloke who came third in the brownlow and has proven quality in the position in BRAYSHAW. I love the sounds of the dees M3 being - oliver, trac and BRAYSHAW

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7 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I thought Kozzie was ok running through the middle earlier in the season as well.
Like Bradshaw on wing, his sweeping work gives us a lot of repeat 50 entries.

 

Did it on the weekend and it certainly got him involved more.

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2 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

Any chance of Declase coming in to play on the wing with Gus in the middle?

That’s what I’d do. Declase kicking looked iffy though would be the only hesitation. But Gus does belong in the middle, so its an opportune time to play him back there.

Edited by KingDingAling
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