POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs St. Kilda

[Pates 9,660]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

As I said did not see the game. Luke Jackson’s stats look ordinary. Have not seen any comment about him. How was his game.

Flashed in and out, did some good thing but not involved in the game for large periods. I thought his ruck work is improving though, he wasn’t tapping it down the throat like Max but competed strongly and staying in the contest when the ball dropped. 

He’s giving Max plenty of important chop outs and rest that make me think it worth persisting, if we drop him who goes into the middle when Max rests? TMac? Tommo? 

The only thing I’ll say is that if he doesn’t improve by the time Weid is ready and Sam puts in a strong return performance, or Majak starts killing it at Casey, then his place could be in jeopardy. But for now it’s worth putting time into his development. 

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

I'm just wondering about this.  We saw a lot of high kicks, mostly from our side, but the Saints were doing it too.  Does the ball maybe carry a bit more with the roof shut at Marvel?  That could explain the issue. 

Another random thing I noticed.  Tomlinson seems to have really soft hands.  Even full stretch with a ball you'd expect to bounce out, it just seems to nestle into his hands.  He was good last week and even better last night. 

Very happy with the team right now.  We're winning ugly.  There's still massive scope for improvement.  If we iron out those issues and otherwise keep it up, we're going to do well. 

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

19 minutes ago, BigFez said:

I have watched Pickett's goal about 20 times and I still can't work out how he just appears out of the pack.  Unreal.

[Adam The God 30,406]

11 hours ago, Stinger said:

IMO he is the best decision maker in the team, he might not be the best kick but he is up there but his decision making is what makes his skills look even better than they are. 

Glad to see Charlie get some wraps. I've long stuck up for him on here and at games - my sister isn't a fan.

His thing - that will come (is coming) with maturity - is staying in games long enough and ideally getting it more. Most of his possessions are in scoring chains. He's a very rare player in that regard. Doesn't get it lot, but when he does it usually results in a score, due to that decision making you mention, and also probably the role he plays.

His pressure has gone to another level now though, which means he's staying in games longer.

Well done, Charlie. Keep it up.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

10 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

May can’t easily out mark Max King types. Lever had his hands full on Membrey. It’s the perfect situation to sit Max back.

It’s all about versatility for Max but there’s no way he’s not a crucial part of the defensive system. 

This. It's a commonsense strategy for a specific situation.

The coaching across the first couple of games has been phenomenal.

We won playing a back half game while getting smashed at the stoppages in round 1 and then we completely nullified the Saints run and won plenty of stoppages while creating incredible forward pressure in round 2.

The skills and determination of our list have not changed over the last few years but the cohesion of the team and ability of the coaches to implement dynamic game plans across the first two weeks of this season is really exciting.

Long may it continue.

[Adam The God 30,406]

5 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

We smashed them but they were very gettable in R2 off a wet travelling match and a 6 day break. Marshall, Ryder, Hannebery and Crouch are big outs, bigger than ours.  I'm very pleased with a Good win, but keeping the lid on.

Sure, the ruckmen would help, but it's not like we smashed them in the clearances. As for Hannebery and Crouch, you can't be serious mate? Harmes is equal to, if not better, than both, and Brown and Weideman would have been our starting forwards this year had it not been for injury.

I think their injuries are being massively overplayed by a media machine that is providing itself cover for pumping up their tyres, only to see their predictions quite a way off. St Kilda could very easily be 0-2 and there's certainly no top 4 contender.

[Adam The God 30,406]

3 hours ago, willmoy said:

ANB taking first options.

ANB taking better options IMO. There was a distinct moment in the game last night where he wove through the traffic off half back, looked wide, it wasn't on, carried the ball and then made the straighter kick and we scored. It was a very notable moment, because it's the sort of moment he's historically struggled with as you imply.

2 hours ago, Sydee said:

Luke took a few nice marks , missed an easy goal (by not much I might add) made some skill errors and got out positioned by his opponent several times 

I am a big fan and think he will be a very good player but atm he looks like he lacks some confidence - hopefully he can put together a strong game this week 

He certainly wasn’t alone in the skill errors dept quarter 3 probably some of the sloppiest footy I’ve seen for a while 

I was glad to see Goodwin give Luke encouragement straight after he’d made a simple error I think he’s in good hands with our coaching group

Jackson is doing what Weideman was doing in his first season - he's basically leading himself under the ball, making it far too easy for his opponent. Weideman has fixed it, so in time, with the right coaching, Jackson will too.

If Brown or Weideman were free next week it'd be an interesting conversation at the selection table. I feel Jackson's struggled both weeks, but perhaps touch will come with continuity for him, and anyway, Brown or Weideman are weeks off. Jackson provides that little bit of brilliance as second ruck that will probably see him keep his place no matter what this season. While we wait for Brown and Weideman, Jackson must bring the ball to ground. For a guy his height, with his leap, he didn't do it enough last night. Things to work on.

[Dr.D 1,771]

are we at a point now that we can concede that Dr. was correct saying that Jackson isn't a natural forward? He's now kicked 3 goals in 8 games playing solely fwd with brief stints in the ruck. 

(For the record, Logan Mcdonald has kicked 5 in 2 games)

Edited March 28, 2021 by Dr.D

[Kent 2,914]

11 hours ago, DeeZone said:

I loved the game watching from home unfortunately but noticed that the Team is really starting to jell and do what a good team does, work, work work and look out for each other. We were able to wrestle back the lead and slow them down at will, if only we had of converted even 50% of our opportunities it could have been a percentage booster, still in my mind a great win as  I am always nervous with the Saints at Marvel Stadium. Well done Dee's.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Yes poor conversion cost us ladder position again

we must take our chances and improve the kicking for goal

It may cost us finals latter in the season

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

I'm surprised someone on here - didn't mention Dean Kent and then draw a bead to Goodwin and his retention strategy.

[Cards13 9,117]

3 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I'm surprised someone on here - didn't mention Dean Kent and then draw a bead to Goodwin and his retention strategy.

Well we won, if we’d lost they come crawling out of the woodwork. 

[titan_uranus 25,043]

8 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

This. It's a commonsense strategy for a specific situation.

The coaching across the first couple of games has been phenomenal.

We won playing a back half game while getting smashed at the stoppages in round 1 and then we completely nullified the Saints run and won plenty of stoppages while creating incredible forward pressure in round 2.

The skills and determination of our list have not changed over the last few years but the cohesion of the team and ability of the coaches to implement dynamic game plans across the first two weeks of this season is really exciting.

Long may it continue.

I don't know if I'd say the coaching is "phenomenal" (we're still putting Jones and Brayshaw on a wing), but I do agree with you that the way we've generated these two wins has been significant.

They weren't both CP/clearance/forward half dominance games, like most of our wins in 2018 were. Indeed, against St Kilda whilst we were +14 in CPs, we broke even in clearances and only had +1 inside 50.

 

[Sydee 4,529]

7 hours ago, Dr.D said:

are we at a point now that we can concede that Dr. was correct saying that Jackson isn't a natural forward? He's now kicked 3 goals in 8 games playing solely fwd with brief stints in the ruck. 

(For the record, Logan Mcdonald has kicked 5 in 2 games)

I haven't given up hope that LJ can be a very effective forward

He's played a handful of games and as we know the big guys take a bit more time - he is learning every week and with some patience and some game time we will be paid back in spades if you ask me 

Can he mark - you betcha

Is his kicking action sound - it needs a little bit of work but basically its solid in fact I'd go so far as to say its better than one JH who some predicted to be the next messiah

He will continue to improve - it may not be linear as in better each week but by the end of this season I am confident that he will be a much better player and be far more confident in his own ability (of which he has plenty)

[Sydee 4,529]

5 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I don't know if I'd say the coaching is "phenomenal" (we're still putting Jones and Brayshaw on a wing), but I do agree with you that the way we've generated these two wins has been significant.

They weren't both CP/clearance/forward half dominance games, like most of our wins in 2018 were. Indeed, against St Kilda whilst we were +14 in CPs, we broke even in clearances and only had +1 inside 50.

 

Curious - who would you play on the wing ? Please don't say Oskar Baker give me Gus or Jonesy any day of the week

AVB - love his aggression but has limitations
Hunt - rather let him settle back to HBF where I think he adds a lot of much needed pace
Bedford - love to see him succeed but just never seems to get enough of the ball
Rivers - he seems like a natural HBF to me why shift him 

 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I don't know if I'd say the coaching is "phenomenal" (we're still putting Jones and Brayshaw on a wing), but I do agree with you that the way we've generated these two wins has been significant.

They weren't both CP/clearance/forward half dominance games, like most of our wins in 2018 were. Indeed, against St Kilda whilst we were +14 in CPs, we broke even in clearances and only had +1 inside 50.

 

Yeah, amazing that our forward efficiency has been quite good given that our current forward line looks average on paper.

I agree Brayshaw and Jones aren't the answer on a wing, but I'm also skeptical of other solutions that have been thrown up.

Salem is a great 1v1 ball winner and distributor out of the back half, Hunt is one of the last guys you'd want putting the ball inside 50.

Beyond that, Baker could come in but if the wing doesn't work for him, he doesn't have the tools to play anywhere else.

ANB, maybe?

[TRIGON 4,790]

10 hours ago, picket fence said:

Gee I cannot believe it attended Pre arranged dinner party last night AND DULY MISSED THE GAME !? Busy with family and friends today. Stiil have not seen the game for the first time in a million years!! Will appraise and report tommorrow Cheers to all Landers P.F??

Bizarre behaviour for a person who risks death from venomous snakes in order to file training reports.

[Clintosaurus 7,861]

9 hours ago, A F said:

I think their injuries are being massively overplayed by a media machine that is providing itself cover for pumping up their tyres, only to see their predictions quite a way off. St Kilda could very easily be 0-2 and there's certainly no top 4 contender.

This is pretty much it. A lot of former Saints in the media and the hype before the season was massive so have to find some excuse for them when they lose.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Clintosaurus

[Demon17 5,202]

10 hours ago, A F said:

Glad to see Charlie get some wraps. I've long stuck up for him on here and at games - my sister isn't a fan.

His thing - that will come (is coming) with maturity - is staying in games long enough and ideally getting it more. Most of his possessions are in scoring chains. He's a very rare player in that regard. Doesn't get it lot, but when he does it usually results in a score, due to that decision making you mention, and also probably the role he plays.

His pressure has gone to another level now though, which means he's staying in games longer.

Well done, Charlie. Keep it up.

The Age this morning used the words"..cleverness and pressure..."   to describe Spargo's performance.

That sums it up for me. Sure he has downsides, but I never doubt his decsion making ability and courage which is essential in a team. 

[dice 712]

12 hours ago, A F said:

As for Max's game I thought he struggled for the most part. His game last week was ordinary and if he's not marking around the ground, his tap work is too predictable to cause the opposition too many headaches. Last night he was playing his loose man in defence role and if you watch the tape, he falls over multiple times or fails to kill the contest and St Kilda get scores. He needs to lift.

Give it a break mate. Gawn hardly struggled. He clearly beat his direct opponents, Hunter and McKernan. What else do you want? He had 40 hit outs, 17 disposals, 5 marks and 3 clearances. And he was scragged and had his arms chopped constantly but the umpires as usual missed all that.

[dice 712]

10 hours ago, A F said:

As for Hannebery and Crouch, you can't be serious mate? Harmes is equal to, if not better, than both

Isn't Hannebery a 3 time all Australian?

[Tom Dyson 1,633]

Anyone on here still think we should have taken Weightman over Koz?

He will definitely win one of mark or goal of the year, if not both!

Can't wait for sunday!!

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

9 hours ago, Dr.D said:

are we at a point now that we can concede that Dr. was correct saying that Jackson isn't a natural forward?

I dont think I have seen a single person say LJ is a natural forward

He is learning the craft, we all know hes a natural ruckman

[titan_uranus 25,043]

2 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Yeah, amazing that our forward efficiency has been quite good given that our current forward line looks average on paper.

I agree Brayshaw and Jones aren't the answer on a wing, but I'm also skeptical of other solutions that have been thrown up.

Salem is a great 1v1 ball winner and distributor out of the back half, Hunt is one of the last guys you'd want putting the ball inside 50.

Beyond that, Baker could come in but if the wing doesn't work for him, he doesn't have the tools to play anywhere else.

ANB, maybe?

I think our forward line efficiency this year is showing us a few things. The first is that the names on paper are actually reaching more than the sum of their parts: TMac is closer to 2018 than 2020 TMac, Spargo/Pickett/ANB are working together really well and each one has started 2021 better than 2020, and Fritsch is improving in most respects other than set shots.

The other thing it's showing me is that we are improving our overall system and ball movement. We're still not nailing all our passes inside 50 but we're trying to get the ball in the right players' hands (e.g. more kicks from Spargo, fewer from, say, Gawn) and we're generating better scoring chains because we're set up better right across the ground. The more we intercept our opponents across half back through May, Lever and Tomlinson, the more we can generate meaningful scoring chains the way we want to and planned to.

Agree re: Salem and Hunt. ANB certainly has the aerobic capacity to play the wing, but he's currently doing really well in his forward role. He, Spargo and Pickett are working together in the forward line really well.

To be fair, I think Brayshaw is probably doing better on that wing from a defensive perspective than we give him credit for. We don't see a lot of drive through the non-Langdon wing but that may well be exactly what we want.

Anyway, maybe the example I gave of the wing isn't the best example, but just as I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater when we eventually lose a game and look bad in the process, I don't think it's fair after two wins to call our previously iffy coaching "phenomenal".

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

15 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

I dont think I have seen a single person say LJ is a natural forward

He is learning the craft, we all know hes a natural ruckman

He's a natural athlete... rather than a natural in a particular position.

Hence the commentary about him being a prototype for a particular role within a team.

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

23 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Weideman will come back first from injury. He’ll go to Casey for a few weeks as will Brown. When you look at Jackson you need to look at his affect on Gawn. Combined they are a massive plus. Can we play the 3 talks and Fritsch in the same forward line? Will they try McDonald on the wing?

TMac is a great runner, sure, but not a fast or agile paceman as required on a wing. Prefer Tomlinson on the 'outer' side who is demonstrating a few more attributes than most, using space to complement speed = ball delivery