Behind the Draft 2020

[Mach5 4,767]

13 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

You hope the whole thing is staged.

The strategy of taking the best 2 kicks, that's nonsense. If that's how it falls then great, but you take the best 2 players.

A panicked meeting about the 3rd selection when you've had months to get an order finalised and run scenarios based on the earlier picks. Come on now.

Goody hasn't been as involved with the draft (every year but no doubt more so this year) and so isn't as enthusiastic to play up for the camera. That's what I hope that is.

 

 

Where is this panic you speak of?

I only saw Goodwin and Richardson calmly asking further last-minute questions to ensure we were making the correct selection in Rosman. They were fair questions to ask, as Carrol was probably higher on our rankings in terms of pure ability, but we had already covered off the positions he’d be in contention for with our earlier selections.  You can’t draft purely based on talent, otherwise you’d end up with a playing list of 35 inside mids; you also can’t draft based purely on needs; it has to be a balancing act between the 2 and that is what led to the last minute questioning. 

Those that knew the prospects were certain and didn’t waver.

For Goodwin it would be hard to be enthusiastic about players you know previous little about.

[Dr.D 1,771]

Some people here have lost their marbles. You think Goodwin waits until draft day to say 'oh guys, what are you doing, I don't want 2 mids under 6 feet'. Lol. You're kidding yourselves. Goodwin would say at the start of the year of the traits in a player that he likes and maybe some areas that his team has hole in. And the recruiters would weigh all of this up when selecting a player but the buck stops with the recruiters. Goodwin literally says in the video that he hasn't seen one of the players play. Yet people think Goodwin is grossly unhappy with the picks. Lol, what has humanity come to. The recruiters do this full time. They interview them, test them, re-interview, re-test. They suss out their character from all angles. And Jason Taylor is a no nonsense guy.  He wouldn't pick any player if they were timid. I 100% trust his judgment. 

[Grimes Times 1,278]

2 hours ago, 58er said:

BRFE 

You do realise that  the Cats Traded up Deliberately to pick 20 and got in first before us for Holmes That's why Holmes DID NOT appear the be in the picture ! He wasn't he was gone Pick 20 GFC!!!!

You do realise that Holmes was never in the picture for our first 2 picks and Geelong believed the media hype and Wells was spooked and used a first round pick on him.

[DeeSpencer 25,663]

1 hour ago, Mach5 said:

 

Where is this panic you speak of?

I only saw Goodwin and Richardson calmly asking further last-minute questions to ensure we were making the correct selection in Rosman. They were fair questions to ask, as Carrol was probably higher on our rankings in terms of pure ability, but we had already covered off the positions he’d be in contention for with our earlier selections.  You can’t draft purely based on talent, otherwise you’d end up with a playing list of 35 inside mids; you also can’t draft based purely on needs; it has to be a balancing act between the 2 and that is what led to the last minute questioning. 

Those that knew the prospects were certain and didn’t waver.

For Goodwin it would be hard to be enthusiastic about players you know previous little about.

Carroll has good size and skill and could play in a number of positions. He’s different to the first two picks. They’re also talking up Rosman as a tall when the plan is to develop him as a wing. A tall wing but hardly different to how Carroll could play the position.
 

If they’re seriously debating it and haven’t got their order and contingencies based on earlier picks sorted then it’s a bit of a mess. I hope they’ve asked Kelly OD to ham it up for the cameras. 

[Mach5 4,767]

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Carroll has good size and skill and could play in a number of positions. He’s different to the first two picks. They’re also talking up Rosman as a tall when the plan is to develop him as a wing. A tall wing but hardly different to how Carroll could play the position.
 

If they’re seriously debating it and haven’t got their order and contingencies based on earlier picks sorted then it’s a bit of a mess. I hope they’ve asked Kelly OD to ham it up for the cameras. 

 

Is it?

I’d also think that even if they play in the same position, they will being drastically different attributes to the table.

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

20 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Jason Taylor has been on record to say that we weren't as interested as the media made out to be on Max Holmes.

Laurie and Bowey were always first choice .

I don't think that's right DD.  They're not going to telegraph in a club video that we missed out on who we wanted.  My read is that Laurie and Bowey were always rated highly but prior to Geelong getting Holmes, they were only thinking of taking one of them.

Taylor saying "I'm happy with those two" to me sounds like he is saying, that although it's not the plan they talked about these two will be a great fit.

Love how Taylor goes about it - but just because he says we weren't that interested in Holmes as the media made out doesn't mean it's true - if he said the reports were true then he and all involved would have egg on their face.  I think he has a list of players in order of who he wants to take and essentially crosses them off the list as they go - there's no guarantees and so given the way the draft panned out, Laurie and Bowey were good gets for us at those picks.

 

[Neil Crompton 5,535]

We really don't have much to talk about, do we!

[Cards13 9,117]

3 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

love the projecting that is going on in this thread

goodwin? unhappy! richardson? clueless! taylor? loves midgets! lamb? overrules everyone!

i still maintain that drafting is an extremely inexact science; you're picking children who're 17 and hoping that by the time they're 24 they will be regular senior afl players

it's very much pot luck imo

lol talk about projecting... 

[spalding 1,128]

I really hope that Goody ends up being successful with Melbourne, but he seems to have the same bemused expression I have when I am being sold something that I'm not sure I really want.

 

[58er 6,422]

2 hours ago, poita said:

Very interesting video and thanks to the club for sharing.

I'm pretty convinced that Goodwin was unhappy with those first two picks, and this is hardly surprising given that Taylor seems overly fixated on smalls with decent skills who can't find the football.

I am very much interested in the relationship between the coach, the list manager and the recruiting manager. Surely the first two need to be setting the direction for the third - is that what is happening here?

The,Coach and list manager should be discussing their wishes with the Recruiting Manager who then with the Football Manager come up with the best strategy to get the pick No's As high as possible to get the required draft choices.

In essence  what happens is the aRecruiting staff go watching certain  players to see if they measure up etc. They are the best available then best available in wanted positions eg. Fast outside mid or small forward who crumbs and kicks goals. This assists the Club put together its 40 odd players on draft and trade periods. Ongoing discussion would be held With Coach and List Manager.

In my opinion we do not know at picks 21 and 22 if Laurie and Bowey are the best remaining footballers.  It out list needs clever speedy runners on the ball or up forward with good disposal and that was their target. They seemed very happy with both esp JT. Poita you say JT is besotted with Small's who don't get the ball!

To be fair JT has not picked a true Small until Kossie  maybe that Johnstone was one who didn't measure up. Jeffy last Garlett was good but a Blues lifeline. Charlie Spargo is on the threshold of being a regular if his development and size are as good as most track watchers are reporting.

With Kossie Charlie Laurie and Bowey we appear now to have 4 good chances of having a balanced forward line who can put some scare factor into our opponents.

Pollyanna and  DeeSpencer just say the best approach is to pick the next best footballer and speculate at or near the end of the list. That is far too general a plan and am sopleased that JT does not follow that plan as that's why our midfield is full of Goodwin bulls  who can get the ball but need some help to place it to our forwards advantage or to our runners out of defence. In trade Langdon was targeted for a Wing and I have no doubt that Rosman  will Be right in line for the other if he keeps impressing and showing that he wants that spot. 
He might well have been a speculative at pick 34 But we were only looking for 3 players from the draft and once a recruit gets to a footy Club his pick no is not his major factor in gaining momentum and adapting to the AFL Club system. Like Hubs some adapt quicker  than others.

I am so confident that the JT strategy has worked in 2019 and 2020 drafts that we will see this season first hand The choice of Best footballers along with needs and  special skills Work well  in our favour.
 

That in my opinion is all we can ask instead of just blandly picking the next best player ( another inside mid for Goody) who does not enhance our list to challenge the Tigers Cats and Lions of the AFL. 

[jnrmac 20,058]

4 hours ago, poita said:

Very interesting video and thanks to the club for sharing.

I'm pretty convinced that Goodwin was unhappy with those first two picks, and this is hardly surprising given that Taylor seems overly fixated on smalls with decent skills who can't find the football.

I am very much interested in the relationship between the coach, the list manager and the recruiting manager. Surely the first two need to be setting the direction for the third - is that what is happening here?

1, Goodwin rarely shows emotion so not sure how you come to that conclusion

2. The scenarios would have been workshopped on numerous occasions with the coach, list manager etc. I doubt there were any surprises to the team and the discussions to me looked like a little last minute 'are you sure?, everyone happy?' sort of thing. Like going to an auction where you set out at a certain price and it gets there slowly or quickly and you adjust your expectations on the run. But you still get back to your basic plan.

[dazzledavey36 54,830]

3 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

I don't think that's right DD.  They're not going to telegraph in a club video that we missed out on who we wanted.  My read is that Laurie and Bowey were always rated highly but prior to Geelong getting Holmes, they were only thinking of taking one of them.

Taylor saying "I'm happy with those two" to me sounds like he is saying, that although it's not the plan they talked about these two will be a great fit.

Love how Taylor goes about it - but just because he says we weren't that interested in Holmes as the media made out doesn't mean it's true - if he said the reports were true then he and all involved would have egg on their face.  I think he has a list of players in order of who he wants to take and essentially crosses them off the list as they go - there's no guarantees and so given the way the draft panned out, Laurie and Bowey were good gets for us at those picks.

 

Mate he even admitted this on the demonland podcast. Pretty much said Holmes wasn't their main target as it was portrayed in the media. 

If anything our main target was Finn MaCrea but he was snapped up beforehand by Collingwood. Our recruiting team thought Laurie was going to GWS at pick 16? When he was available they were extremely happy and pounced straight away.

If Holmes was still available at our 3rd choice then yes we would have jumped at it.

[Nascent 9,212]

15 hours ago, 58er said:

Nascent 

We had already done our trading up to get 2 first round selections prior to the draft!!!   You have forgotten.

vety good selections and happened the way any supporter could be pleased about.

2 best kicksxand 2 best decision makers Thank you very much and Rosman  the Big Smokey with all the ability and run in his tank!  Ready made fir a wing ( and cameos on the forward line and no doubt at half back!) 

Well done JT and team.

Let the tougher stuff reveal the beauty in these decisions.

I haven't forgotten at all and I am not upset in the slightest with our selections as I recognise I have insignificant knowledge of U18 footy compared to our recruiting team.

In 2019 we traded multiple picks including futures to secure pick 8 that would eventually be split for 10 and 28 ultimately landing us Kozzie and Rivers. However even after all that trading prior to the draft, we attempted multiple times to move up in the order. Our first attempt was to move up and try to nab a sliding Robertson, although we had little to no trade currency to be in the conversation for him, and the second was to ensure we grabbed Rivers ahead of any potential rivals. This year we saw no such attempt to trade for any player either before or after our consecutive picks. Now maybe we did and it simply wasn't included in the footage to protect club intel, but that's where my comments were coming from.  

These videos below play out the edited footage of our draft night from 2019 which I found to be more illuminating and interesting to watch. Obviously a pre-Covid world but it's interesting to see the discussion and demeanor of all involved, particularly Goody, in comparison to this years video. In my personal opinion, Goody seemed less enthused about our first two picks in 2020 but there could be a myriad of reasons for that.  I say less enthused because of the reassurance Tim Lamb and Jason Taylor were providing him, particularly when Taylor talked up the recruits during there selection and immediately after that Tim Lamb got Goody's attention again and said we've got the best two kicks in the draft, turned to Kelly O'Donnell for him to reiterate that point as well.  Or perhaps my perception of this is wide of the mark.

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Nascent

[BDA 22,742]

Wonder how Laurie and Bowey feel, watching this footage and seeing the coach question their selection?

[Mach5 4,767]

22 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

Wonder how Laurie and Bowey feel, watching this footage and seeing the coach question their selection?

 

I must have watched a different video.

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

18 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Mate he even admitted this on the demonland podcast. Pretty much said Holmes wasn't their main target as it was portrayed in the media. 

If anything our main target was Finn MaCrea but he was snapped up beforehand by Collingwood. Our recruiting team thought Laurie was going to GWS at pick 16? When he was available they were extremely happy and pounced straight away.

If Holmes was still available at our 3rd choice then yes we would have jumped at it.

You're entitled to your opinion (none of us really know) but if you think that a savy operator like Jason Taylor is going to spill the beans on a fan podcast then I don't know what to tell you.

If you listen to his interviews, he talks up the players he's drafted as if they are the best players in the draft - I don't have a problem with this as clearly he rates them very highly.  But it doesn't mean he doesn't rate other players higher - if he comes out and says "yeah we really rated Holmes and hoped he'd slip through to our first pick", it would lead to a meltdown on here - supporters would be saying we traded away next year's pick to get a player we didn't want, and for Laurie / Bowey they're essentially told the club wanted someone else.  Some players wouldn't handle that very well.

It's just not going to happen.

It's probably all mute anyway - I for one am very happy to have two great decision makers and kickers as additions to the side.  And I suspect with his freakish running ability, that Rosman has some similar attributes to Holmes - maybe we wouldn't have gone for Rosman if we picked Holmes?  It might have looked more like Holmes, Bowey and Carroll.  Who knows?

[Dr.D 1,771]

17 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

Wonder how Laurie and Bowey feel, watching this footage and seeing the coach question their selection?

you're probably the guy that thought OJ was innocent. I mean seriously, what were you watching. 

[BDA 22,742]

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

you're probably the guy that thought OJ was innocent. I mean seriously, what were you watching. 

I thought i'd take the heat of you D. It must be lonely for you being the only one making ridiculous comments all the time!

[nosoupforme 3,085]

Jason Taylor's words when Trent Rivers got through and picked by  the Dees,

 

 WE'RE GUNNA GET THE RIV !   Kick and carry that's right MCG player.   

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,165]

On 2/10/2021 at 11:14 AM, 58er said:

BRFE 

You do realise that  the Cats Traded up Deliberately to pick 20 and got in first before us for Holmes That's why Holmes DID NOT appear the be in the picture ! He wasn't he was gone Pick 20 GFC!!!!

Yes. Nothing they showed made me think that’s who we were looking at with those two picks. 

[loges 6,767]

I've come to realise, over time, there are a lot of expert body language people on this site.

[58er 6,422]

6 hours ago, loges said:

I've come to realise, over time, there are a lot of expert body language people on this site.

Unfortunately that's where it ends Loges their body language expertise ?? Is not matched by their football brains.

Talk of always going for "  the next best player " In a draft 1st Round and  not considering our desperate wants and needs is a lazy and hazardous draft selection policy. BTW who is the next best player?? 18 Clubs look at this so differently.because of their lists and needs anyway.  LJ  snd Kossie and Laurie and Bowey are our examples.
Ironically looks as though Riv at no 32 was indeed the next best player ( actually put that back to end if first round  as the next best!!).

Loved the way JT stood steadfastly firm That Rosman was the choice "He could easily ( or be ready to ) explode".

Its that X factor approach you need occasionally to get a list of all different types which I think we have really got now with 2019 and 2020 draft and trade recruits.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

On 2/10/2021 at 6:59 PM, Nascent said:

 

 

Bloody hell they were keen to get Rivers weren’t they! Thanks for that walk down Memory Lane Nascent. 

[Mach5 4,767]

On 2/12/2021 at 7:55 PM, big_red_fire_engine said:

Yes. Nothing they showed made me think that’s who we were looking at with those two picks. 

 

Id think we knew that run and carry was something we needed to top up on, and it was a case of us liking Bowery, Holmes, Rosman and others that fit that profile, but were eventually happy to get Bowey & Rosman. Laurie is no slouch either.

[58er 6,422]

3 hours ago, Mach5 said:

 

Id think we knew that run and carry was something we needed to top up on, and it was a case of us liking Bowery, Holmes, Rosman and others that fit that profile, but were eventually happy to get Bowey & Rosman. Laurie is no slouch either.

Mach 5 you didn't catch what JT said re Laurie and Bowey. Better listen again then!