BACKLINE

B: ? , MAY, ? 

HB: ?, ? , ?

 

We have major problems down back the only consistent player we have is May.

Jetta is finished and his replacement in Lockhart plays like a VFL player.

Lever has been a disaster it teaches you to never give big bucks to a player that plays like a poor man's Jason Cloke.

Salem has been disappointing hasn't improved at all maybe a spot on the wing or half forward can rejuvenate him.

O.McDonald is a spud he can play a handful of good games but when he's bad he's awful, Smith is developing can't expect too much from him.

Hibberd has been good but he only has 1 year max left in him and his replacement in Rivers is developing.

 

CENTRE LINE

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, ?

FOLL: GAWN, ? , VINEY

 

Our major problem in the midfield is our kicking skills no one can hit a target.

Langdon has been a good pick up even though his skills are sub par can't blame the Dees for picking him up.

Petracca is the only one stepping up we have 2 of the top 5 players in the league in him and Gawn just shows how bad the rest of the team is when we are 14th on the ladder.

Tomlinson has been a disaster he was poor at GWS and he has been poor here an absolute recruiting blunder.

Gawn has been out of form the last 2 weeks but I'm sure he can back to the form that makes him one of the top 5 players in the league.

I don't think we can have Oliver and Viney in the same team I'd prefer Viney because he can barely kick but Oliver can't kick at all trade him while he's worth something before his trade worth is very little like Brayshaw.

 

FORWARD LINE

HF: BENNELL, ?, ?

F: ?, ?, FRITSCH

 

Our forward line is our biggest problem we have no key talls, Jackson is developing can't expect too much from him, T.McDonald has been a disaster play him down back or not at all, and Weideman is an enigma don't know what to expect from him.

Bennell is the class we need even though he's not fit enough ATM.

Pickett is developing so can't expect too much from him.

I'm not sure of Melksham he's a great kick but he goes missing too often.

I'm a fan of Fritsch he wasn't great against Port but he's our leading goal kicker and has a lot more to give.

 

INTERCHANGE

?, ?, ?, ?

 

Vandenberg is the only viable option on the bench and maybe Melksham the rest aren't up to AFL standard.

Harmes and Brayshaw have lost the plot.

Sparrow and Jordon are developing.

The rest are VFL players.

 

So we only have 7 to 9 good AFL players the rest are developing or they are a joke, so if you think I'm unhappy about the way the club is going especially Jason Taylor's spot you would be right. The club has to put most of the players on the trade table and start again.

 

 

 

 

Why didnt you post this after the hawks game? 

I disagree with about 80% of your commentary

Great idea for review, perhaps not best done after the years worst performance, as Thursday night I don’t think I would have picked more than 2-3 players!!

Backline - no backline would have held up against how easily the ball was brought in on Thursday. 
Back six:

Definite: May, Lever, Hibberd, Salem

Structural: OMac (Thursday night aside, backline is definitely more settled and structured when he plays)

Developing: Lockhart, Rivers, Smith

At moment I’d stick with Lockhart

Middle:
Wing: Langdon Not sure about other side maybe VDB for aggression

Tagger: Harmes just put him on oppositions best mid, he had a great season doing this, let him play the role. When guy he is tagging goes off ground so does Harmes

Centre/Rover: Petracca/Oliver/Viney/Brayshaw with each of Petracca/Oliver/Viney/Brayshaw rotating in Forward Pocket/Flank

Ruck: Max supported by Jackson
Forwards

Weideman just give him the rest of the season at FF

Jackson Plays rest of season / 2-3 game breaks replaced by TMac role of Forward/Ruck

Melksham / Bennell highly skilled

Petracca/Oliver/ Viney/ Brayshaw share forward role

Pickett  rest of season, this week off and two other rest breaks Spargo to backup

Bench: Rivers, Brayshaw, Smith, possibly Tomlinson 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, @WERRIDEE how would you define "Team Structure". You've called the thread "The Team Structure" then commented on the quality of individual players broken into forward, back, midfield and interchange.... 

Just now, ArtificialWisdom said:

Just out of curiosity, @WERRIDEE how would you define "Team Structure". You've called the thread "The Team Structure" then commented on the quality of individual players broken into forward, back, midfield and interchange.... 

What would you call it then?

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

What would you call it then?

I'm not trying to be a smartarse (maybe a little). But I would describe team structure as the roles and their purpose within our 22. In theory you should be able to write up our whole structure and what each role entails without mentioning a single player name. Different teams have different collections of roles and it is a very fair discussion to have that our structure is not working well enough and needs to change. But I would describe this thread as a rebranding of "Our Best 22" without that title because you're disappointed (and rightfully so) with player performances on Thursday

While we are on team structure, how on earth have we had pretty much all of last year, all pre season to get the right structure and team balance, and yet here we are again talking about the same problem.

Its like when we went in with the one key forward at the start of the year with TMac and left Weideman. Blind Freddy could tell it was a recipe for disaster. Every single supporter but the coaches could see it was never going to work. ?‍♂️

2 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

BACKLINE

B: ? , MAY, ? 

HB: ?, ? , ?

 

We have major problems down back the only consistent player we have is May.

Jetta is finished and his replacement in Lockhart plays like a VFL player.

Lever has been a disaster it teaches you to never give big bucks to a player that plays like a poor man's Jason Cloke.

Salem has been disappointing hasn't improved at all maybe a spot on the wing or half forward can rejuvenate him.

O.McDonald is a spud he can play a handful of good games but when he's bad he's awful, Smith is developing can't expect too much from him.

Hibberd has been good but he only has 1 year max left in him and his replacement in Rivers is developing.

 

CENTRE LINE

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, ?

FOLL: GAWN, ? , VINEY

 

Our major problem in the midfield is our kicking skills no one can hit a target.

Langdon has been a good pick up even though his skills are sub par can't blame the Dees for picking him up.

Petracca is the only one stepping up we have 2 of the top 5 players in the league in him and Gawn just shows how bad the rest of the team is when we are 14th on the ladder.

Tomlinson has been a disaster he was poor at GWS and he has been poor here an absolute recruiting blunder.

Gawn has been out of form the last 2 weeks but I'm sure he can back to the form that makes him one of the top 5 players in the league.

I don't think we can have Oliver and Viney in the same team I'd prefer Viney because he can barely kick but Oliver can't kick at all trade him while he's worth something before his trade worth is very little like Brayshaw.

 

FORWARD LINE

HF: BENNELL, ?, ?

F: ?, ?, FRITSCH

 

Our forward line is our biggest problem we have no key talls, Jackson is developing can't expect too much from him, T.McDonald has been a disaster play him down back or not at all, and Weideman is an enigma don't know what to expect from him.

Bennell is the class we need even though he's not fit enough ATM.

Pickett is developing so can't expect too much from him.

I'm not sure of Melksham he's a great kick but he goes missing too often.

I'm a fan of Fritsch he wasn't great against Port but he's our leading goal kicker and has a lot more to give.

 

INTERCHANGE

?, ?, ?, ?

 

Vandenberg is the only viable option on the bench and maybe Melksham the rest aren't up to AFL standard.

Harmes and Brayshaw have lost the plot.

Sparrow and Jordon are developing.

The rest are VFL players.

 

So we only have 7 to 9 good AFL players the rest are developing or they are a joke, so if you think I'm unhappy about the way the club is going especially Jason Taylor's spot you would be right. The club has to put most of the players on the trade table and start again.

 

 

 

 

Agree on Lever, called it a while ago about the Cloke similarity. His build or lack of development speaks to his style of play. It takes less courage to just punch the ball rather than put your body on the line and try and mark. Did you see him when he was totally clear and fisted to the boundary. In school footy you woulda got called out for not having a go. I was an average footy player who never thought I could make VFL but if someone had told me to spend my whole junior footy career just punching the ball, I had grown to Levers height and could point a bit, who knows.

The issue I have with structure is at selection.
We finally played two talls, played good footy, then this week we played three.
if goody doesn’t know his game plan with required structures....then there is no guessing why the players look like deer in the headlights. ? ? 

completely disagree re yr assessment of lever; he's no more or less a failure as a recruit as may

backline is set to be built around may, lever, lockhart and salem with other spots up for grabs - at the moment hibberd and o mac are the incumbents, but i'm hoping that rivers and perhaps petty can take those roles

your assessment of oliver is absurd; he's clearly one of our best midfield players in a long, long time

our core inside trio should be gawn, oliver, and petracca - we need viney to be a part of that make-up as when he's firing he's excellent, but we definitely need someone with the ability to break away from packs and kick with accuracy from the centre square make-up; trac is arguably that role, but he seems to prefer dinky little handballs in the telephone box too often as well

langdon is obviously one wingman and there's a yawning gap to fill on the other side; i have completely convinced myself that brayshaw for polec makes sense, but given that that is unlikely then perhaps it will be someone that we recruit in that not too distant future

38 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

completely disagree re yr assessment of lever; he's no more or less a failure as a recruit as may

backline is set to be built around may, lever, lockhart and salem with other spots up for grabs - at the moment hibberd and o mac are the incumbents, but i'm hoping that rivers and perhaps petty can take those roles

your assessment of oliver is absurd; he's clearly one of our best midfield players in a long, long time

our core inside trio should be gawn, oliver, and petracca - we need viney to be a part of that make-up as when he's firing he's excellent, but we definitely need someone with the ability to break away from packs and kick with accuracy from the centre square make-up; trac is arguably that role, but he seems to prefer dinky little handballs in the telephone box too often as well

langdon is obviously one wingman and there's a yawning gap to fill on the other side; i have completely convinced myself that brayshaw for polec makes sense, but given that that is unlikely then perhaps it will be someone that we recruit in that not too distant future

Why don't they try Salem on the wing and Rivers down back?

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

Why don't they try Salem on the wing and Rivers down back?

no idea

i guess they like salem behind the ball as the set-up man

I agree with a lot of what you have to say but don't blame too many players.  The coaching has to take most of the heat as they are the ones in command.

Does Goodwin know before the game how bad we are going to be on the day?  Does he sense the mood?  Does he get them up for the challenge?  What does he do when they realise we have not come prepared?  Does he have another strategy when the current one is failing badly?

Werridee might have to review his profile. His favourite players include TMac, Oliver and Jones. None of them fits into his team.

TMac looks done, but it's obvious to me why we played him Thursday,. We have Weid who is still not reliable and Jackson who's a first year player, if they're both off then who do you play through. It was a gamble, it didn't work, but I see why it was tried.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:02 AM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

no idea

i guess they like salem behind the ball as the set-up man

My guess would be they don’t think he has the leg speed of tank for a wing role, which I would agree with. 

Structure wise I echo thoughts of others that this scathing analysis came after our worst loss and not after one of our wins or close loss to Brisbane, therefor it’s been looked at our worst and not at our best. 

I wasn’t against the trial of three tall forwards but you could strongly argue that doing it against the top team was extremely poor timing. In any case I feel that it has been proven to be the wrong approach. Up forward for the rest of the year I think we should be using Weid at FF and Jackson as a roaming HF/ruck, looking towards them building cohesion together. TMac looks done to me, so if there needs to be changing in personnel than I’d give Brown a crack. For me our forward line looks something like this:

HF Melksham/Hannan Jackson Bennell/AvB

F Fritch Weid Pickett

Defence I think you’re being extremely harsh, against Brisbane it held up very well and against Port it had to endure an onslaught of easy balls coming into the 50. I feel like our biggest quandary comes with Nev clearly starting to lose his legs. Lockhart is doing ok for a young player but like many other Melbourne players has very suspect disposal. But our structure has look 100x better since OMac’s return and anyone that doesn’t see that has blinkers on that can only see Oscar as a liability. He’s not a world beater but he is a solid defender that is surrounded by May (who is playing well) and Lever (who until Port was starting to look a lot more like what we got him for. Hibberd had been getting back into form but like others looked awful vs Port. For me our back line looks something like this:

HB Salem Lever  Hibberd
B Lockhart/Nev May Oscar

Rivers and Smith provide development in the background, Harmes is going back there but I don’t think that’s his long term position. 

I won’t go deeply into the centre, I think we know who generally goes in there and most of the time they win the ball. It’s just some god awful disposal that hurts us. 

Thursday was a disgraceful night, we have Adelaide and North coming up to try to turn things around. It’s now or never. 

Edited August 2, 20204 yr by Pates

On 8/1/2020 at 11:06 AM, Half forward flank said:

Agree on Lever, called it a while ago about the Cloke similarity. His build or lack of development speaks to his style of play. It takes less courage to just punch the ball rather than put your body on the line and try and mark. Did you see him when he was totally clear and fisted to the boundary. In school footy you woulda got called out for not having a go. I was an average footy player who never thought I could make VFL but if someone had told me to spend my whole junior footy career just punching the ball, I had grown to Levers height and could point a bit, who knows.

I was taken aback that he punched it rather than mark it - he was the only player going for the ball - a bad look.

On 8/1/2020 at 12:02 PM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

no idea

i guess they like salem behind the ball as the set-up man

Yeah but he only does dinky 15-25m kicks.

I don’t think TMac is done yet. He played like he was sore last week. If that’s the case, or unless he did something very early in the game, he shouldn’t have played.

I reckon Weideman is the most overrated player on the list.  He has had several pre-seasons now to bulk up his upper body and strengthen his grip but clearly that hasn’t happened.  He gets pushed off the ball and out of position way too easily. He is not physically strong enough to successfully compete with some of the competitions key defenders.  Harry Petty has more upside.
 

 I notice some guys potting young Jackson. He is going to be very good once he properly adjusts to the tempo of the game and grows in confidence. I would keep banging the games in to him.
 

Oliver pizzes me off with those in close handballs.  Rather than handball, I’d prefer to see him just kick the ball, even blindly.  Just slam it on the boot. At least that gives us some chance of getting the footy. Those cute little handballs mostly impose more unnecessary pressure upon team mates.  Further, he needs a spell out of the midfield. Throw him down forward for half a game.  There is no doubting his ball winning ability but that’s all for nought if the subsequent disposal is sh1te.

On 8/1/2020 at 8:58 AM, WERRIDEE said:

BACKLINE

B: ? , MAY, ? 

HB: ?, ? , ?

 

We have major problems down back the only consistent player we have is May.

Jetta is finished and his replacement in Lockhart plays like a VFL player.

Lever has been a disaster it teaches you to never give big bucks to a player that plays like a poor man's Jason Cloke.

Salem has been disappointing hasn't improved at all maybe a spot on the wing or half forward can rejuvenate him.

O.McDonald is a spud he can play a handful of good games but when he's bad he's awful, Smith is developing can't expect too much from him.

Hibberd has been good but he only has 1 year max left in him and his replacement in Rivers is developing.

 

CENTRE LINE

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, ?

FOLL: GAWN, ? , VINEY

 

Our major problem in the midfield is our kicking skills no one can hit a target.

Langdon has been a good pick up even though his skills are sub par can't blame the Dees for picking him up.

Petracca is the only one stepping up we have 2 of the top 5 players in the league in him and Gawn just shows how bad the rest of the team is when we are 14th on the ladder.

Tomlinson has been a disaster he was poor at GWS and he has been poor here an absolute recruiting blunder.

Gawn has been out of form the last 2 weeks but I'm sure he can back to the form that makes him one of the top 5 players in the league.

I don't think we can have Oliver and Viney in the same team I'd prefer Viney because he can barely kick but Oliver can't kick at all trade him while he's worth something before his trade worth is very little like Brayshaw.

 

FORWARD LINE

HF: BENNELL, ?, ?

F: ?, ?, FRITSCH

 

Our forward line is our biggest problem we have no key talls, Jackson is developing can't expect too much from him, T.McDonald has been a disaster play him down back or not at all, and Weideman is an enigma don't know what to expect from him.

Bennell is the class we need even though he's not fit enough ATM.

Pickett is developing so can't expect too much from him.

I'm not sure of Melksham he's a great kick but he goes missing too often.

I'm a fan of Fritsch he wasn't great against Port but he's our leading goal kicker and has a lot more to give.

 

INTERCHANGE

?, ?, ?, ?

 

Vandenberg is the only viable option on the bench and maybe Melksham the rest aren't up to AFL standard.

Harmes and Brayshaw have lost the plot.

Sparrow and Jordon are developing.

The rest are VFL players.

 

So we only have 7 to 9 good AFL players the rest are developing or they are a joke, so if you think I'm unhappy about the way the club is going especially Jason Taylor's spot you would be right. The club has to put most of the players on the trade table and start again.

 

 

 

 

Complete overreaction 

Same as your disrespect for Garry  Lyon.

On 8/1/2020 at 11:18 AM, Gunna’s said:

The issue I have with structure is at selection.
We finally played two talls, played good footy, then this week we played three.
if goody doesn’t know his game plan with required structures....then there is no guessing why the players look like deer in the headlights. ? ? 

In the space of 7 games since the restart, we have played with 1 tall, 2 talls and now 3 talls, which does give the impression goodwin is just throwing darts and hoping something works at this stage.

10 hours ago, Pates said:

My guess would be they don’t think he has the leg speed of tank for a wing role, which I would agree with. 

Structure wise I echo thoughts of others that this scathing analysis came after our worst loss and not after one of our wins or close loss to Brisbane, therefor it’s been looked at our worst and not at our best. 

I wasn’t against the trial of three tall forwards but you could strongly argue that doing it against the top team was extremely poor timing. In any case I feel that it has been proven to be the wrong approach. Up forward for the rest of the year I think we should be using Weid at FF and Jackson as a roaming HF/ruck, looking towards them building cohesion together. TMac looks done to me, so if there needs to be changing in personnel than I’d give Brown a crack. For me our forward line looks something like this:

HF Melksham/Hannan Jackson Bennell/AvB

F Fritch Weid Pickett

Defence I think you’re being extremely harsh, against Brisbane it held up very well and against Port it had to endure an onslaught of easy balls coming into the 50. I feel like our biggest quandary comes with Nev clearly starting to lose his legs. Lockhart is doing ok for a young player but like many other Melbourne players has very suspect disposal. But our structure has look 100x better since OMac’s return and anyone that doesn’t see that has blinkers on that can only see Oscar as a liability. He’s not a world beater but he is a solid defender that is surrounded by May (who is playing well) and Lever (who until Port was starting to look a lot more like what we got him for. Hibberd had been getting back into form but like others looked awful vs Port. For me our back line looks something like this:

HB Salem Lever  Hibberd
B Lockhart/Nev May Oscar

Rivers and Smith provide development in the background, Harmes is going back there but I don’t think that’s his long term position. 

I won’t go deeply into the centre, I think we know who generally goes in there and most of the time they win the ball. It’s just some god awful disposal that hurts us. 

Thursday was a disgraceful night, we have Adelaide and North coming up to try to turn things around. It’s now or never. 

Agree, it's time to give Brown a crack.

11 hours ago, cantstandyasam said:

I was taken aback that he punched it rather than mark it - he was the only player going for the ball - a bad look.

Normally that happens under perceived pressure and go for the safe option of the punch. it is also a symptom of a lack of talk from the players around him that he had no pressure and time to mark.  

Our midfield is our structure.

Midfield is generally 8 players. 4 in the middle, 2 wings the high HFF and the attacking HBF. 

Gawn/Oliver/Petracca/Viney/Langdon are the main 5, Salem/Brayshaw/Harmes/AVB/Jones/Melksham/Bennell etc are the players that come in and out of that system when either playing a role or rotations.

It all revolves around Gawn winning the Ruck. Vs Brisbane 2nd Qtr and Vs Port The opposition sharked the ball or waited for us to take the ball and dispossess and spread from there. We have no plan to counter this, or they can't execute. 

This I believe has a knock on effect on the structure of the other 4 mids. They are all at sea. Our defenders are then caught in a decision making process to defend space or the man. Also if other mids are too slow to react or too slow anyway they are out of position for turnovers either for or against.

May/Salem being left footers hugging that boundary is so easily defended against.