POSTGAME: Rd 09 vs Port Adelaide

[forever demons 2,224]

Why cant Goodwin let the players play like football players rather than turn them into robotic instructed players that he can move around a whiteboard like magnets.Let them play on instinct and use their natural talents to play the game,sure have a game plan but make so they can use it within their talents

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

29 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

A simple tactic and credit to them as it is another way to neutralise Max's field work; a method I hadn't seen before. 

They did their homework.  We didn't or else the dog ate it before the game and no-one thought to take a copy!  

This is the broken record we encounter every week.

Every coach has studied our "game plan". Whereas our coaches appear to know nothing about the opposition.

Every coach comes up with some strategy to thwart us. Our coaches are bewildered every time and have no answer.

When was the last time our coaches did a number on the opposition, strategy-wise?

Our coaches have had their pants pulled down so many times they might as well donate them to the Salvos. They're so used to going around bare-arsed.

 

[layzie 33,991]

Didn’t write much in this thread last night, trying to wait till the day after once all the smoke has settled on results like these.

I watched the second half of the West Coast v Collingwood game last week and with margins over 40 points this year being a bit more rare I had a slight chuckle and grin on my face. “Hey, that team is getting completely scorched and it’s Collingwood! A flag favourite! Who cares at least it’s not us for a change!”

Well… We didn’t even have to wait a full week, be careful what you wish for as a Melbourne fan because no matter how embarrassing another team’s performance is you can bet your bottom dollar we are happy for someone to hold our beer and go one better, putting our supporters in that oh so familiar position of not only sad to lose but beyond embarrassed, not wanting to show their faces in public and void of any hope once again.

We all know teams have the mulligan performance, it happens we get it. All the best sides get it blah blah blah. This team does it WAY too often. We’ve had at least 3 of them this year and it is just a habit now. In Grade 4 my teacher told us that for creative writing that we were only allowed to write one short story that included any violence. I did it anyway, by the middle of the year I had written about 3 and she politely reminded me that we were only allowed to write one. It’s a stupid and laughable example and yes I have gone a little loopy but it’s the same thing, you get 1 horribly inept performance in this game. It should be unacceptable, it should be criticised, it should be something you never aim to do again but for some reason you just keep writing violent 4^th grade quality short stories and the message doesn’t get through. For as long as I can remember Round 1 2012 straight after Jim’s passing – no ticker, Round 1 2013 against Port – No ticker, Round 1 last year – no ticker the list goes on and on and on and it seems perfectly acceptable.

For the first time almost ever I would have loved to push a button to enforce the mercy rule in the 3^rd quarter and end the game with the final score there, I had no faith at all that we were going to score and even though we got a couple it was still crappy viewing.

I think responsibility is 70% players and 30% Goodwin last night. Weak as water efforts, Under 10 level skill errors and bad bad bad decision making. Really reverted back to the panic and don’t see open players thing. Max is now completely wasted and I firmly believe half of an oppositions preparation is going into him, studying his hitouts and where they go. How do we god damn solve this issue because it’s going to keep going.

One dimensional, beat us at contested ball and win. No plan B, no ‘if X is happening we’ll do Y’ X was Port making us kick to the left hand side every time and Y seemed to be let’s keep kicking it long down the left hand side.

I’m too tired and unproductive at work to keep this going right now, big thanks to anyone who read this. Just needed to get it out, at least the podcast is on tonight. I think everyone will be impressed hearing from Adrian he’s as die hard as they come.

[Flemo56 409]

Went last night and typically wasn’t confident, honestly cannot remember the last time I was confident of a win. I left at 3/4 time disgusted at our performance, can’t add to anything that hasn’t already been said. 
It was a Melbourne home game and an official(I don’t think he was a melb official tho) at the game told me it was our decision too only have 500 ppl at the game. Bit disappointed, and I don’t now who made the decision, but we demon supporters were seated one level up in a pocket while the bloody port dills were in the prime position on a wing. We got too see the dills warm up twice rite in front of us while our lads were down the other end. Not happy jan ?. 
I’m getting too old too get upset by these performances, but I do, I’m a die hard that’ll stay that way till my day comes. Go Dee’s....too hell.....still?

[CBDees 3,167]

Disgraceful number of turnovers from our Senior players. Sometimes it seemed that Port had 36 players of the field all trying to help them kick a winning score. ?

[Waltham33 475]

Take the week off Goodwin - May can play/coach this week.  In other news, the Demonland clock tells me on 5 days and 7 hours until the next game.  Surely we cant lose to the Crows - errrr......

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

1 hour ago, Grapeviney said:

 

Yeh nah.  

Your Jesse Hogan posts were deleted because they were unsubstantiated rubbish ('he was at a party in my apartment building'), not because you had any 'inside mail' that needed censoring. You then pretended to be a lawyer when you were called out on your limited understanding of defamation and the legal risk to which you exposed the site's owners, one of whom is an actual lawyer.

Ouch..

[binman 43,759]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

A simple tactic and credit to them as it is another way to neutralise Max's field work and stop our flow on game before it could get started.  The mass corralling was a method I hadn't seen before.  

They did their homework.  We didn't or else the dog ate it before the game and no-one thought to take a copy!  

I've mad the point on the podcast last week that an issue for us is we seem not to look to switch from the back pocket. We always go down the line. And knowing that teams give us that kick to the pocket and then set up down the line.

No doubt part of it is a directive to go to max but as i noted it is also because our players are simply not confident taking the switch kick on - which is a worry because a 40 metre kick to a free player is a pretty basic skill at any level, let alone the elite level.

Makes us super predictable, means maxy gets smashed 25 times a game and even if he does mark he has to kick to a contest down the line too as every player is on that side and opposition team are happy for him to try to a kick to the corridor knowing he will almost certainly not hit the target. 

Lever is the main culprit with this (he often doesn't even look) but not the only one.

Again it is all comes back to our sub standard kicking skills. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by binman

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

A well-reasoned counter to how I felt last night and still feel, to a lesser extent, this morning.

The one key issue for us, though, is that we have these "mulligan" performances far too frequently.

We were terrible against Richmond just four weeks ago. Here we are again, four weeks later.

I agree there are opportunities in our fixture to win games and correct this season, but unlike other clubs who have had one-off shocking performances, our track record does not instil confidence that there is some sort of righting of the ship to come.

Indeed, given our history, I'd suggest we're more likely to fall flat and finish bottom 4 than we are to become a legitimate flag contender from here.

I know there was a lot of discussion about the Richmond game but I didn't see that as one of the "shockers" I was referring to. I reckon the media completely overplayed the performance in that game.

The stats in that game were level. We were never out of the game at any point. Yes the skill level and decision-making was appalling but there was good effort, we won enough of the ball, competed hard but let ourselves down with our use of the ball. The Tigers just ran rings around the Bulldogs, a team touted as a top-four chance, without Nankervis, Caddy, Prestia, Edwards, Houli and Vlaustin who all played against us. We were far more competitive than the Dogs were against a significantly stronger Richmond side.

Last night was different. It was one of those flat, lethargic, at times soft and accepting of defeat kinds of losses. That's what I'm referring to as the mulligan as we have not seen that type of performance this year. We've seen the poor skills, the lack of inside 50 efficiency, but not that.

[binman 43,759]

11 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Disgraceful number of turnovers from our Senior players. Sometimes it seemed that Port had 36 players of the field all trying to help them kick a winning score. ?

I can't recall the exact stat but at about the 13 minute mark of the first quarter one of the commentators noted we had some crazy amount of turnovers. 16 is in my mind, but whatever it is is was off the charts. It was just so infuriating to watch.

And so many of our turnovers happened on our half forward line, which in footy these days that is probably the worst spot to turn it over as(except in front of goals - and even then there should be traffic) as it gives the opposition the corridor and as attacking team is pushing forward an open space to launch an easy counter attack.

Every team employs all team zones now. One on one footy is history. No zone can defend even half the number we coughed up last night.it is only luck we didn't lose that game by 10 golas or more.

Edited July 31, 2020 by binman

[Ethan Tremblay 30,966]

Game Day!! Can’t wait to continue our good form and smash those Port pretenders tonight. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

1 minute ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Game Day!! Can’t wait to continue our good form and smash those Port pretenders tonight. 

I can't see Port scoring anything tonight

[Clintosaurus 7,861]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

I can't recall the exact stat but at about the 13 minute mark of the first quarter one of the commentators noted we had some crazy amount of turnovers. 16 is in my mind, but whatever it is is was off the charts. It was just so infuriating to watch.

I think it was 12 turnovers from 24 kicks.

I reckon Maxy must be getting tired of oppo ruckmen jumping into him with no intent to contest the bounce/ball up. Umps should be paying free kicks where the ruck has no intent to contest. It would be paid in a marking contest.

[binman 43,759]

1 minute ago, Clintosaurus said:

I think it was 12 turnovers from 24 kicks.

I reckon Maxy must be getting tired of oppo ruckmen jumping into him with no intent to contest the bounce/ball up. Umps should be paying free kicks where the ruck has no intent to contest. It would be paid in a marking contest.

He is getting smashed in every game. In marking contests and in the ruck. And his understandable frustration is starting to show.

On that, why when the game was out of reach didn't Tmac take some centre bounces and round the ground stoppages (leaving aside his lack of mobility and the fact the only time now he gets off the ground is when flying to games)?

Instead they threw jackson in there, which is fine but id rather Tmac get belted than a first year string bean.

[The heart beats true 18,145]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/478090/goodwin-slams-unacceptable-bad-loss
 

Half way down that page is a montage of our skills. We aren’t AFL standard with ball in hand, and you can carry a few of those types, but we have to carry 16 of them. WAY too much contested focus - and that’s Goodwins fault. The Port player said it during the game in an interview ‘we need to get the ball to the outside and beat them with skill’.

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

4 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/478090/goodwin-slams-unacceptable-bad-loss
 

Half way down that page is a montage of our skills. We aren’t AFL standard with ball in hand, and you can carry a few of those types, but we have to carry 16 of them. WAY too much contested focus - and that’s Goodwins fault. The Port player said it during the game in an interview ‘we need to get the ball to the outside and beat them with skill’.

After re-watching that, it honestly looks like a lot of those mistakes are just from pure laziness and lack of concentration. Oliver's kick in the centre of the ground is the best example. There was no concentration at all with that kick and was just pure laziness. I don't think you can chalk that up to just being tired, that's an attitude thing and he clearly didn't care enough about executing a basic fundamental.

 

[Lucifers Hero 40,360]

13 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/478090/goodwin-slams-unacceptable-bad-loss
 

Half way down that page is a montage of our skills. We aren’t AFL standard with ball in hand, and you can carry a few of those types, but we have to carry 16 of them. WAY too much contested focus - and that’s Goodwins fault. The Port player said it during the game in an interview ‘we need to get the ball to the outside and beat them with skill’.

That is what is so frustrating.  Other teams have been openly saying it for the whole of Goodwin's 4 year tenure. 

The teams that consistently have beaten us that way:  Sydney, Hawks, Tigers, the recent Lions, Port, Pies, GWS, Ess. 

Other well known techniques are denying us the ball:  Geelong, Eagles, Hawks.  Or put an extra tall in defence:  Pies, Richmond, Geelong.

We may pinch a game here and there against those teams but in the main they are tried and true formulas on how to beat us.

Yet after 4 years of rinse and repeat we still have no idea on how to counter them. 

Frustrating as hell.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[gregdemon 624]

If we lose to the crows the rot really sets in. ........... a must must must win !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wiseblood 24,637]

5 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

After re-watching that, it honestly looks like a lot of those mistakes are just from pure laziness and lack of concentration. Oliver's kick in the centre of the ground is the best example. There was no concentration at all with that kick and was just pure laziness. I don't think you can chalk that up to just being tired, that's an attitude thing and he clearly didn't care enough about executing a basic fundamental.

 

That video you reference re: our skills is a two minute horror show.  The Oliver kick in the middle of the ground really is the crowning turd in the water pipe.

[DubDee 26,117]

I blame myself for getting my hopes up and thinking we were a good team (again)

Will I ever learn?

[Lucifers Hero 40,360]

Can't imagine life in the hub is much fun right now...

...no way to get away from the horror show.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

1 hour ago, A F said:

This is a systems fault thing IMO. The system is too labour-intensive. Even with our alleged fitness increase, there's not enough room for error. 

It's all well and good to play the forward territory battle, but I just don't think the plan being sold is sustainable over four quarters, for 22 games a season. Even in our most dominant performance this year, we couldn't sustain it for all 4 quarters.

Some of this is concentration, some of it is stupid errors leaving our defence open, and we do go into our shells too easily, but this is year 4 of Goodwin and he's still tinkering with the best side and trying to implement the tempo game to very limited success.

Last night was mostly on the players, but for me it simply highlights the deficiencies within Goodwin's game plan and his communication.

I think the point May is making is that when you turn it over as much as we do, you continually ask your forwards and mids to double-back from aggressive forward running to provide scoring opportunities back into defensive running to help out.

So we had our forwards and mids slingshotting up and down the ground because we kept turning it over.

Which in turn meant we were exhausted and then the errors mounted.

The same thing would afflict any side turning it over as much as we do.

So much of our malaise comes down to turnovers.

26 minutes ago, binman said:

I've mad the point on the podcast last week that an issue for us is we seem not to look to switch from the back pocket. We always go down the line. And knowing that teams give us that kick to the pocket and then set up down the line.

No doubt part of it is a directive to go to max but as i noted it is also because our players are simply not confident taking the kick on - which is a worry because a 40 metre kick to a free player is pretty basic skill at any level, let alone the elite level.

Makes us super predictable, means maxy gets smashed 25 times a game and even if he does mark he has to kick to a contest down the line too as every player is on that side and opposition team are happy for him to try to a kick to the corridor knowing he will almost certainly not hit the target. 

Lever is the main culprit with this (he often doesn't even look) but not the only one.

Again it is all comes back to our sub standard kicking skills. 

Are you basing this on last night or the year overall? Because last night Lever was looking for switch/angled kicks every time he had the chance.

We had three talls plus Max last night. Repeatedly kicking down the same wing to Max is stupid. I'm not against the concept of kicking to a tall target and being content to let the ball go over the boundary line if we can't retain possession, but it shouldn't be Gawn every single time who is the target.

25 minutes ago, Scoop Junior said:

I know there was a lot of discussion about the Richmond game but I didn't see that as one of the "shockers" I was referring to. I reckon the media completely overplayed the performance in that game.

The stats in that game were level. We were never out of the game at any point. Yes the skill level and decision-making was appalling but there was good effort, we won enough of the ball, competed hard but let ourselves down with our use of the ball. The Tigers just ran rings around the Bulldogs, a team touted as a top-four chance, without Nankervis, Caddy, Prestia, Edwards, Houli and Vlaustin who all played against us. We were far more competitive than the Dogs were against a significantly stronger Richmond side.

Last night was different. It was one of those flat, lethargic, at times soft and accepting of defeat kinds of losses. That's what I'm referring to as the mulligan as we have not seen that type of performance this year. We've seen the poor skills, the lack of inside 50 efficiency, but not that.

I accept the differences between the Richmond loss and this loss, but the point is that we had a poor performance just four weeks ago that, rightly or wrongly, brought significant heat onto us.

Yet here we are again.

We need to learn to sustain effort for four quarters, and for more than three weeks at a time.

[Adam The God 30,407]

22 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That is what is so frustrating.  Other teams have been openly saying it for the whole of Goodwin's 4 year tenure. 

The teams that consistently have beaten us that way:  Sydney, Hawks, the recent Lions, Port, Pies, GWS. 

Other well known techniques are denying us the ball:  Geelong, Eagles, Hawks.

We may pinch a game here and there but in the main they are tried and true formulas on how to beat us.

Yet after 4 years of rinse and repeat we still have no idea on how to counter them. 

Frustrating.

There are certainly more ways teams can beat us than ways we can beat them, that's for sure.

[Adam The God 30,407]

14 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I think the point May is making is that when you turn it over as much as we do, you continually ask your forwards and mids to double-back from aggressive forward running to provide scoring opportunities back into defensive running to help out.

So we had our forwards and mids slingshotting up and down the ground because we kept turning it over.

Which in turn meant we were exhausted and then the errors mounted.

The same thing would afflict any side turning it over as much as we do.

So much of our malaise comes down to turnovers.

I'd agree with this if I'd seen us slingshotting backwards and forwards. We didn't. With the exception of Langdon, no one worked into space all night. So we can't then blame the hard gut running we're doing forward of the ball when we turn it over.

I think what you point out could be more applicable to us losing to Richmond or Geelong, but last night, we didn't slingshot either way.

16 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Are you basing this on last night or the year overall? Because last night Lever was looking for switch/angled kicks every time he had the chance.

We had three talls plus Max last night. Repeatedly kicking down the same wing to Max is stupid. I'm not against the concept of kicking to a tall target and being content to let the ball go over the boundary line if we can't retain possession, but it shouldn't be Gawn every single time who is the target.

Agree with the dumbness of our play last night. Bringing McDonald into the side along with still playing Jackson and Weideman, I'm sure our FD were hoping our guys would use those taller guys as outlets more often than simply kicking to Max every time down the line.

16 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I accept the differences between the Richmond loss and this loss, but the point is that we had a poor performance just four weeks ago that, rightly or wrongly, brought significant heat onto us.

Yet here we are again.

We need to learn to sustain effort for four quarters, and for more than three weeks at a time.

Absolutely agree with this. I've no sure way of knowing this other than results and what I see with my eyes on game day, but our guys seem to be comfortable with a couple of weeks of effort in a row and then they'll have a week or two off. This has been a Melbourne cultural thing for as long as I can remember and to me, it speaks to the vacuum of leadership at the club.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

There is always a reason for a comprehensive loss to Port A.  

1. They came off a 5 day break.and were beaten by St.Kilda 

2  We came off a 4 day break and were  beaten by Brisbane in a hard fought game.

3.    4 days later we play PA and and we don't get a look in . shouldn't happen when you see four PORT  PLAYERS RUNNING TOGETHER FORWARD OF CENTRE ALL ALONE  WITH NOT A MELBOURNE PLAYER IN SIGHT.That was in the second quarter.

Something wrong there.

Lets go back to 2018 25th April... round 5 Anzac day Wednesday game COLL V ESS   Win to Coll by 49 pts.

Four days  later...     29TH April  2018... Essendon   lose to Melbourne by 36 pts 

Four days  later        29TH April  2018    Coll/wood  lose to Richmond  by 43 pts.  Two winnable games lost easily.

AUSSIE RULES  is not basketball or baseball or Soccer  that back up after a few days THEY DON'T BASH AND CRASH EACH OTHER AND  TACKLE EACH OTHER WITH HIGH INTENSITY.

I can see from the word go we looked flat you could read the body language  however l am not making excuses for them.

If you want to have significant injuries during this period then we are heading the right way of encountering them.