55 minutes ago, Tom Dyson said:

I said this in an earlier thread and I know we only have one real game to base his form on this year but I think the benefits of O'mac and Lever in the same team is undeniably true. 

"The first 6 or so rounds of 2018 when Lever had just come in to the team, O'mac shut down hawkins in round 1, he shut down Hipwood in round 2, he nullified ben brown in round 3, he didn't have a great game against hawthorn but he kept riewoldt out of it in round 5, he kept daniher goaless in round 6, he kept patty mccartin to 2 points in round 7 (which was the same round that lever got injured) and while he was alright for the rest of the season he was never as dominant."

So far people have said O'mac relies on Lever or Lever relies on O'mac but i think it's safe to say that they rely on each other to both perform well.

2016 Round 1 (two point win over GWS), O'mac injured his ankle i think in the third quarter deep in our defensive fifty, it was three on one and even though he was limping about, he still tried his best to defend. I don't know about you but someone that has that much endeavour is someone I want on my team. 

He's always been one of my favourite players, keep shutting em down O'mac. 

Well said.

This thread should be called the Oscar McDonald Apology thread......this bloke has copped way to much bagging on here in the past.

Edited July 14, 20204 yr by Wadda We Sing

2 hours ago, Tom Dyson said:

I said this in an earlier thread and I know we only have one real game to base his form on this year but I think the benefits of O'mac and Lever in the same team is undeniably true. 

So far people have said O'mac relies on Lever or Lever relies on O'mac but i think it's safe to say that they rely on each other to both perform well.

 

I attended the Demons vs Dogs or Saints match at Marvel in 2018 when Lever injured his knee.  Watching from close quarters I got the sense that Lever and O Mac communicated on field really well.  They were is constant dialogue, adjusting themselves for positioning etc.

Really small sample but it stood out for me that day. sadly Lever was off shortly after.

I have confidence with this set up now and will be interesting to watch this evolve hopefully.

Great to see. I have been harsh on him - being beaten in one-on-one's by much smaller players has been my beef. Always been a very good decision maker when he gets the ball - he started this little chain of possessions with a brilliant disposal:

 

 

3 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

Great to see. I have been harsh on him - being beaten in one-on-one's by much smaller players has been my beef. Always been a very good decision maker when he gets the ball - he started this little chain of possessions with a brilliant disposal:

 

 

One of my all time favourite passages of play.  Up there with the Hannan goal from the 2018 EF.

6 hours ago, Nasher said:

According to Max Gawn it’s the other way around. Ref: radio interview with Harford and Bartel posted on MFC website.

Basic claim is that Oscar is the best reader of play in the team, that he sets up the entire backline and that Lever and May both directly benefited from this directly on the weekend. Said the challenge for Oscar is to make sure he also plays well himself. Hopefully I have interpreted and paraphrased that correctly

I was surprised when I heard it, but I doubt the skipper is lying. He’s often quite insightful in these interviews.

You beat me to it, Nasher.  I think there is certainly plenty of evidence from the game on the weekend to suggest that Oscar makes Lever a better player - it allows him to play his natural game as the third, intercepting defender while Oscar can lock down on one of their key forwards.  He spent time on both King and Day on the weekend and kept them well under control (with May also doing a terrific job on their other key forwards as well).

i found it bizarre that we came back after the rd 1 sabbatical without o mac or a second tall forward, given that we'd presumably spent the whole pre-season (and certainly the jlt matches) with a backline built around may - o mac - lever and a forward line of t mac - weed / brown

of course, it's no less bizarre than the preseason hitouts being longer games in 2020 than that which the grand final will be...

7 hours ago, Nasher said:

According to Max Gawn it’s the other way around. Ref: radio interview with Harford and Bartel posted on MFC website.

Basic claim is that Oscar is the best reader of play in the team, that he sets up the entire backline and that Lever and May both directly benefited from this directly on the weekend. Said the challenge for Oscar is to make sure he also plays well himself. Hopefully I have interpreted and paraphrased that correctly

I was surprised when I heard it, but I doubt the skipper is lying. He’s often quite insightful in these interviews.

I would agree with this. He was the reason we were able to experiment with ideas like the 4 man "diamond defence".

He does a great job of leaving his man at the right time to hit the next contest, covers ground quickly and he spoils high in the air well. Hw is also a reliable kick in defence. 

He isn't great in a muscle fight. But not many defenders are in 2020, because then they probably aren't great at zoning, closing, chasing etc.

The reason he has been whipped is because of tv viewing angles:

-When he is caught one out, and out marked, that's usually because the ball has come in too easy.

-Beaten on a lead? Often because his opponent had too much space and there was no pressure on the ball carrier.

-"His" opponent gets an easy goal out the back? Oscar has left to cover another loose man and the mids didn't work hard enough to get back. 

Is he perfect? Nah. But a lot better than he gets credit for. 

Edited July 14, 20204 yr by deanox

13 minutes ago, deanox said:

 

 

-When he is caught one out, and out marked, that's usually because the ball has come in too easy.

 

Some good points deanox, particularly about the tv angles as often you just can't tell where players start from before getting to a contest (i find it annoying when the ball is in dispute waiting for a dees player to magically come into shot) 

To the one quoted above i'd add that often he sets up by himself as the sweeper between the last defensive line and the goals and sometimes when the ball gets over that line he has to scramble to get to drop of the ball. This can make him look out of position and slower than actually he is (not that he is fast).

Jeepers an appreciation thread after one good game. We love setting our players up to fail with jinxes.

Oscar definitely does what the coaches want. My issue with that is does the coaches plan actually stack up? 

I reckon I've seen Oscar 100 times coming running up from the deep defensive position to get frontal pressure on a player running towards goal  outside of scoring range who's about to be chased down from behind, only for that player to give the easiest over the top kick or handball. 

Did he follow the game plan - yes. Did it work - not at all.

Or he'll sit deep and track the play beautifully and have clear best position to control the contest but we'll send half the backline up with him because they don't trust him to win the contest.

Last year he got sent for a preseason in the middle of the year, so he was clearly a long way off his best, so I hope this year is the continuation of some of the form his showed in 2018 and earlier, but reading the play alone won't be enough. 

34 minutes ago, binman said:

Some good points deanox, particularly about the tv angles as often you just can't tell where players start from before getting to a contest (i find it annoying when the ball is in dispute waiting for a dees player to magically come into shot) 

To the one quoted above i'd add that often he sets up by himself as the sweeper between the last defensive line and the goals and sometimes when the ball gets over that line he has to scramble to get to drop of the ball. This can make him look out of position and slower than actually he is (not that he is fast).

One noticeable change with the TV production this year is that wider shots are being used much more often. I wonder whether that's because cameras are shooting from higher up to avoid showing empty grandstands or whether the TV producers have heard the complaints that close ups don't show enough of the game (or both). Whatever the reason, we can now see much better how the game is being played. I wonder whether Demonland's newfound appreciation for Oscar has come about because we now have a greater understanding of his role because we can see it and therefore understand it better.

3 hours ago, BigFez said:

One of my all time favourite passages of play.  Up there with the Hannan goal from the 2018 EF.

Mine too! 

Also on my list along with with those two, is the passage of play from the 2018 SF, where Gunston hit the post, and we went right up the other end from the kick in for a goal by ANB.  BT: "Cant believe it, cant believe it, cant believe it, CAN NOT believe it!"  

Also this from the 2014 game vs Essendon when Salem got the goal less than a minute from the end for a 1 point win.

TMac was crucial in the chain so the "Macs" certainly have form when it comes to being involved in memorable passages!  ?

 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Jeepers an appreciation thread after one good game. We love setting our players up to fail with jinxes.

Oscar definitely does what the coaches want. My issue with that is does the coaches plan actually stack up? 

I reckon I've seen Oscar 100 times coming running up from the deep defensive position to get frontal pressure on a player running towards goal  outside of scoring range who's about to be chased down from behind, only for that player to give the easiest over the top kick or handball. 

Did he follow the game plan - yes. Did it work - not at all.

Or he'll sit deep and track the play beautifully and have clear best position to control the contest but we'll send half the backline up with him because they don't trust him to win the contest.

Last year he got sent for a preseason in the middle of the year, so he was clearly a long way off his best, so I hope this year is the continuation of some of the form his showed in 2018 and earlier, but reading the play alone won't be enough. 

The highlighted part gave me a chuckle in so far as the concept of being able to jinx a player is juxtaposed with detailed analysis.

Reminds me of how i will forensically do my horse racing form and still go with the occasional vibe bit.   

By the by i see the points you are making. And i appreciate that you acknowledge his good form in 2018.

 With Omac i reckon it is worth keeping in mind he has only just tuned 24 so there is plenty of room for improvement and as a big he is still 1-2 years away from fully bulking up. As a point of comparison Weed is only 9 months younger (and was taken nearly 50 spots higher in his draft year) 

Edited July 14, 20204 yr by binman

31 minutes ago, JTR said:

Mine too! 

Also on my list along with with those two, is the passage of play from the 2018 SF, where Gunston hit the post, and we went right up the other end from the kick in for a goal by ANB.  BT: "Cant believe it, cant believe it, cant believe it, CAN NOT believe it!"  

Also this from the 2014 game vs Essendon when Salem got the goal less than a minute from the end for a 1 point win.

TMac was crucial in the chain so the "Macs" certainly have form when it comes to being involved in memorable passages!  ?

 

Brilliant.  Melkshams left footer against the hawks in the SF 2018 was memorable too, although not in a great passage of play.

Oscar is going to surprise many on this list who lost faith in him.

He will be a powerful player when he fully develops. He’s not in his prime yet. I hope to hell that we can hold onto him.

I'm just going to quietly nudge in here - that I've always believed in Oscar, in a realistic way, going back years.

Gooooo team Oscar!

6 hours ago, JTR said:

Mine too! 

Also on my list along with with those two, is the passage of play from the 2018 SF, where Gunston hit the post, and we went right up the other end from the kick in for a goal by ANB.  BT: "Cant believe it, cant believe it, cant believe it, CAN NOT believe it!"  

Also this from the 2014 game vs Essendon when Salem got the goal less than a minute from the end for a 1 point win.

TMac was crucial in the chain so the "Macs" certainly have form when it comes to being involved in memorable passages!  ?

 

Jesus Christ you gotta give credit to Paul Roos for winning any games with this group of plodders. I forgot how horrendous our list was when he took over. 
Day and night to the list Goodwin has now. 

7 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

One noticeable change with the TV production this year is that wider shots are being used much more often. I wonder whether that's because cameras are shooting from higher up to avoid showing empty grandstands or whether the TV producers have heard the complaints that close ups don't show enough of the game (or both). Whatever the reason, we can now see much better how the game is being played. I wonder whether Demonland's newfound appreciation for Oscar has come about because we now have a greater understanding of his role because we can see it and therefore understand it better.

At the 'G I usually sit Level 2 behind the goals which gives such a clear view of the tactical set ups and battle.  The subtle shift of a zone left or right, the spare man at the contest and the positioning of the loose man.  Defensive/ offensive positioning on the far wing, etc.

None of this is apparent on tv. The wider shots help a bit, but not a lot. I'd love to see the tv change to behind the goal views more often, maybe with a close up inset of the play.

7 hours ago, JTR said:

Mine too! 

Also on my list along with with those two, is the passage of play from the 2018 SF, where Gunston hit the post, and we went right up the other end from the kick in for a goal by ANB.  BT: "Cant believe it, cant believe it, cant believe it, CAN NOT believe it!"  

Also this from the 2014 game vs Essendon when Salem got the goal less than a minute from the end for a 1 point win.

TMac was crucial in the chain so the "Macs" certainly have form when it comes to being involved in memorable passages!  ?

 

Incredible watching this, so much passion and excitement. The games this year without the crowds are so stunningly stark in comparison, its like a different world. Lets hope we can get back there. Stay safe everyone.

14 hours ago, JTR said:

Mine too! 

Also on my list along with with those two, is the passage of play from the 2018 SF, where Gunston hit the post, and we went right up the other end from the kick in for a goal by ANB.  BT: "Cant believe it, cant believe it, cant believe it, CAN NOT believe it!"  

Also this from the 2014 game vs Essendon when Salem got the goal less than a minute from the end for a 1 point win.

TMac was crucial in the chain so the "Macs" certainly have form when it comes to being involved in memorable passages!  ?

 

How about Jordie McKenzie’s handball in that passage? MFC were definitely taking the .... when they gave Oliver no. 13, they look exactly the same.

On 7/13/2020 at 2:38 PM, Grr-owl said:

Is this thread about the footballer or a new Robert Ludlum novel?

Robert Ludlum only ever wrote one new novel. Then he repeated it 27 times.

When AC/DC were asked in an interview , "What do you say to critics who say you've just made the same album 17 times?"

Reply-"That's total [censored]-We've done the same album 19 times".

13 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

I'm just going to quietly nudge in here - that I've always believed in Oscar, in a realistic way, going back years.

Gooooo team Oscar!

I respectfully volunteer to be captain of team Oscar.

In terms of experience i was previously captain of team Anthony 'Spud' Dullard, like Omac an effective but much underappreciated big defender (and occasional ruckman) who played his last game in 1981. A 

(as an aside i I just checked Spud's page on demonwiki - the single greatest website in the history of the internet - and was amazed that he also wore number 28, a fact i'd completely forgotten. Sorry Spud.

And further he holds the club record for games wearing number 28 - 108. Omac is on 74 so all things being equal he will break that record. And when he does i might have little Team Oscar celebration and invite Spud. I can't see Omac passing Spuds 49 goals but with some luck maybe he might exceed Spuds 10 career Brownlow votes though he might need to get wriggle on)

For many years team Oscar felt like a very small team. Growing in numbers now it seems. Little Goffy and handful of others can say we were into Oscar before he got big. 

But if he gets too popular i might have to find a new, unfashionable, but cool team. Like when i was into Hunters and Collectors (down there in that cavern where heaven grows) before they went mainstream and went off them once they did  - i mean Holy Grail, please!.

Any ideas of who the next underground, alternative player for the true believers might be? personally I'm thinking of joining team Smith.

 

oi @binman - do you agree that human frailty is one of the greatest oztrayan albums of the 1980s?

only i'd have ahead of it would be the triffids' born sandy devotional

one of my favourite player for a short period of time was chief collins, also a fine #28

we clearly have a 'thing' for giving #28 to unfashionable defenders - o mac, joel macdonald, glenn molloy, john howat, jamie duursma, your mate spud dullard

2 hours ago, binman said:

I respectfully volunteer to be captain of team Oscar.

In terms of experience i was previously captain of team Anthony 'Spud' Dullard, like Omac an effective but much underappreciated big defender (and occasional ruckman) who played his last game in 1981. 

 

I think you've earned the position @binman.
I was also a fan of Spud, particularly his work in the back pocket where his marking saved us many a goal. Reckon it was Bobby Skilton who said Spud could have been a terrific CHF if he's only got off his arze and put in a bit at training.

An old workmate of mine used to play in the DVFL and would occasionally get called up to play for Preston in the VFA. Big unit he was. Ruckman. One such occasion he played against Williamstown when Spud was ruckman in residence. I asked him on the Monday how he went and he described rucking against Spud as spending an afternoon hurling yourself at a brick wall.

Dear Oscar,

Lyrics changed accordingly 

Everybody needs a little time away
I heard him say
From each other
Even players need a holiday
Far away from each other

I owe you now
It's hard for me to say I'm sorry
I just want you to stay

After all that we've been through
I will make it up to you
I promise to

And after all that's been said and done
You're just a part of the team I can see it through

Couldn't stand to be kept away
Just for the day
From your great play
Wouldn't want to be swept away
Far away from the defender that we love

I owe you now
It's hard for me to say I'm sorry
I just want you to know
I owe you now
I really want to tell you I'm sorry
I can see it clearly now

After all that we've been through
I will make it up to you
I promise to

And after all that's been said and done
You're just a part of the team so just play on

After all that we've been through
I will make it up to you
I promise to

34 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

oi @binman - do you agree that human frailty is one of the greatest oztrayan albums of the 1980s?

only i'd have ahead of it would be the triffids' born sandy devotional

 

I do indeed whatwhatsaywhat  - the hunner's high water mark. Brilliant, clean production (horns sound great). Some of their best song writing and every track tight and punchy. All killer no filler.

Somewhat controversially i don't reckon there are that many great Australian albums. Lots of great singles (and i reckon My pal by GOD sits at the op of that list) but oz bands have always had to make their money from playing live and have not had the time or money generally to spend long period in the studio.

That said i'm with you Born Sandy Devotional would have to be at the top, or very close to it, of my list of great oz albums. A near perfect record.