Dees on Brink of Another Trade Disaster

[Half forward flank 1,022]

10 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

He was a NSW Giants academy player so all they have to do is match our first round bid which was pick 3 with their first rounder, pick 17 to get Greene. That’s the rules. I am sick of these academies, the draft has become a compromised joke against clubs like us. 

The GIANTS have welcomed another GIANTS Academy graduate to its senior list with Canberra's Tom Green selected with pick 10 in the 2019 NAB AFL Draft. Green was bid on by Carlton at pick 10 but being a GIANTS Academy product, the GIANTS matched the bid using picks 41, 56, 59, 67 and 71.Nov 27, 2019

OK, thanks. I see how it works now.    It would be intersting to know what they would have matched our number 3 with though. The example above is matching number 10 pick. 

[poita 3,902]

The North trade was a dumb trade at the time and it looks even dumber now that a bottom four finish is all but guaranteed.

Pickett will be a good player if he can put on some weight so he is not pushed off the ball so easily, but he is icing on top of a non-existent cake. 

Jackson was a blatantly poor selection who fits none of our needs, present or future. Whether he is an undersized ruckman, an oversized midfielder, a speculative key forward prospect or all three, he was simply the wrong choice for a club with so many glaring holes in its list.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

9 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Ahhh we could've bid on him with pick 3 and there was strong mail that the Giants would pass him up to get Jackson. There was no reason not to bid on Green if we wanted Green. GWS no the academy rules as well as anyone.

Anyway, Green wouldn't help us all that much right now. He'd be whacking away at half forward and fighting for on ball time and we'd just have a bigger log jam of contested ball mids with average kicks. That's no reason not to draft him but people upset we didn't based on his current form aren't watching our team play!

That doesn't excuse the Jackson pick if it was for needs and the recruiters talked themselves in to Jackson being a key forward when his forward craft looked a long way off. He's a ruck and will be ready to play as a ruck quicker than a lot of people think and he might be very good very quickly. But he might also be a good example of why you don't draft for need.

As I said mate, the combination of knowing they wouldn't end up getting him and deciding to draft for needs meant we didn't go for him.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

10 hours ago, DubDee said:

Young looks a dead set start. 6 foot 2, big body for a kid, amazing kicking and great awareness and decision making

Jackson will have to be very good to justify we taking him over Young

And watch Melbourne supporters give him zero time to develop as well.  Have a look at our ol' mate Poita - already calling him a 'blatantly poor selection' even though the kid has been part of one senior game.  Classic.

[spirit of norm smith 16,589]

Agree. Revisit after 2022.  
 

Interesting to look at 2016 draft. The one we didn’t pick until 3rd round Mitch Hannan. 

24 of top 30 played with this weekend gone. A very good draft. Some are now seriously top players. Tim English at pick 19 and Jy Simpkin at pick 12 look steals. It takes min 3 years for start of an assessment imo.  
Pick 7 the Suns got in 2016 for the 2015 pick swap for Dees to get Weideman. Suns chose Scrimshaw (who already has gone to Hawks due to inability to settle at GC) but looking impressive and excellent foot delivery !!! Scrimshaw, Florent or Simpkin would probably have been our options. 

Hannan #46 ?? 3rd rd   51 games * 
Dion Johnstone ?? 4th rd ❌
trade. Hibberd #29 #59 ?? 61 games * 
 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

11 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

I agree going for a ruckman was just plain stupid by Melbourne as usual. We already have the best ruckman in the league. Why on earth did we need another ruckman?

And Pruess still on the list W as a lumpy back up.  Im sure Jackson will be a good player at some point but is he a ruckman?  A forward?  Im not sure he is either.  Maybe that's a good thing.

But Young would have slotted in pretty much straight away and lifted our awefull kicking skills substantially off HB almost immediately.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

To me this is not feedback about MFC. This is feedback about the Media Circus itself. They are desperate, Melbourne orientated and unaware of how to handle the present situation. Their focus now has to be primarily on an interstate platform where they are faced in reality with a dispirited group of players that they, the gutless media ( job conscious hacks) cannot even state what they , the players, are thinking. We all know what they are thinking, fold it up and think of something else to do. And kick fox out the door........

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

the notion that gw$ were ever going to let green slip from their grasp is absurd

there are two more green brothers coming thru their fallacy of an academy selection

the effective trade of our first round pick in 2020 for pickett will, in effect if not necessarily result, look to be an absolute disaster if we continue our current form line

it's a classic demons delight!

[Supermercado 2,802]

Get back to me when we're a few years down the track from North's pick. More than anyone we should know that a pick means nothing unless you get the right player.

[Demon3 2,541]

I just went and did some historical research.. found 3 articles without even trying saying Steven May is basically teh missing link for Melbourne..  AFL media are the most unaccountable, hypocritical, sensitive, hyperbolic sensationalist group going around. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

And watch Melbourne supporters give him zero time to develop as well.  Have a look at our ol' mate Poita - already calling him a 'blatantly poor selection' even though the kid has been part of one senior game.  Classic.

Im pretty sure most supporters get the rookie/tall vs time to develop situation Wise.

No doubt there'll always be a few exceptions.

[Clintosaurus 7,861]

AFL journos are the worst. They completely forget everything they ever said about something/someone and when called out on it, completely deny ever saying it even when there is documentary proof.

No point getting triggered about what they say - they have to talk about someone.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

43 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

But Young would have slotted in pretty much straight away and lifted our awefull kicking skills substantially off HB almost immediately.

Salem, May, Lockhart, Rivers, Jetta (when playing) all decent kicks. Our back half is not where we need to improve our kicking. We need to improve our kicking further up the ground. We actually exit the defensive half pretty well, it's the next 2 kicks that us down

[Wiseblood 24,637]

8 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Im pretty sure most supporters get the rookie/tall vs time to develop situation Wise.

No doubt there'll always be a few exceptions.

True - however, I note that you're already lamenting that we didn't select Young, even though both of their careers are in their absolute infancy.  Yes, I get that you haven't written Jackson off by any stretch, but already you're looking longingly in the direction of another player from that same draft, even though it's extremely early days.  That's where it starts.

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

9 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

True - however, I note that you're already lamenting that we didn't select Young, even though both of their careers are in their absolute infancy.  Yes, I get that you haven't written Jackson off by any stretch, but already you're looking longingly in the direction of another player from that same draft, even though it's extremely early days.  That's where it starts.

 

I had a preference at the time Wise given what "i believed" (rightly or wrongly) was lacking in our stocks.

Im still sticking to that call.  That doesn't mean a thing though.  They might both be stars and we win regardless.  They might both be busts.  One might be a bust.  Who knows.

I'm no writing LJ off by any means.  Yes he might take some more time and happy to allow for that.  Im not in your "Zero time to develop" bias theme.

However i am entitled to hold a view.  And my view was that Young (erratum) was likely to offer a little more a little earlier and offer exactly what we needed in terms of helping to clean up our pitiful disposal skills.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I had a preference at the time Wise given what "i believed" (rightly or wrongly) was lacking in our stocks.

Im still sticking to that call.  That doesn't mean a thing though.  They might both be stars and we win regardless.  They might both be busts.  One might be a bust.  Who knows.

I'm no writing LJ off by any means.  Yes he might take some more time and happy to allow for that.  Im not in your "Zero time to develop" bias theme.

However i am entitled to hold a view.  And my view was that Jackson was likely to offer a little more a little earlier and offer exactly what we needed in terms of helping to clean up our pitiful disposal skills.

Absolutely.  Not knocking your right to hold that view, merely commenting on where I see it potentially going down the road.  I could well be wrong in that, but that's life.

And I didn't believe you were writing LJ off - in fact, I see you as someone who isn't prone to making such quick judgements on players.  But I see LJ as the modern footballer.  He can ruck, go forward, impact the play around the ground and is very athletic for his size.  He will take time, but I can see him being exactly what we need going forward.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

45 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Salem, May, Lockhart, Rivers, Jetta (when playing) all decent kicks. Our back half is not where we need to improve our kicking. We need to improve our kicking further up the ground. We actually exit the defensive half pretty well, it's the next 2 kicks that us down

That's true,to a degree but lets run through each of those AW.

May.... usually solid short kick.  Ok / average medium or longer.

Jetta.  Great nullifier.  Probably the best short kick in the team at present.  Not sure about medium and longer but probably better than AFL average here for defenders (just a guess).  Height means he can't match up on anyone other than a medium / small forward without being exposed in the air.  Great clubman and hoping he goes on for another season or two but verging on retirement.

Lockhart:  early days, looks promising in patches.  Plenty of upside.  Kicking skills im not sure of at this point.  Someone might enlighten me.  AFL's kick rating would be handy here.  Height not quite there to defend on medium talls.

Rivers:  see Lockhart but potentially another cog up.  Again haven't paid attention to the finishing with boot.  Ditto re height on medium talls.

Imho grooming Young into the replacement role taking over from Jetta at some stage (probably) soon, likely elite kicking skills over ANY distance (a critical differentiation vs anyone listed above off HB) & tall enough to handle medium/tall forwards if required and probably medium/smalls as well.

We see things differently AF but that's all good.  You may well be on the money and i might be barking up the wrong tree.  We will never know of course.

P.S. I forgot to mention the $800k man who appears to be only capable of kicking it long down the line on most occasions.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

17 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Absolutely.  Not knocking your right to hold that view, merely commenting on where I see it potentially going down the road.  I could well be wrong in that, but that's life.

And I didn't believe you were writing LJ off - in fact, I see you as someone who isn't prone to making such quick judgements on players.  But I see LJ as the modern footballer.  He can ruck, go forward, impact the play around the ground and is very athletic for his size.  He will take time, but I can see him being exactly what we need going forward.

LJ is a very exciting prospect Wise.  As you say given enough time, put a little bit of bulk without putting on so much that he loses his athleticism and leap however and he should be right.

If he wasn't so lanky/raw at this point through the body i would even go so far as to pull the pin at some stage later this season IF T-Mac continues to flop and just slot him in for the last 6 rounds or so at FF for a run.  Risky with this group's form though and his physical size at the moment.  Might get too knocked about physically and mentally.  In a better drilled / more professional outfit that was at the top of its game and were hitting up targets coming inside 50 more often?  Maybe an option.

The way we play?  All those long bombs would probably see him knocked out or worse lol.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,510]

This is utterly ridiculous that posters are complaining about a draft that hasn't happened yet, a player that hasn't been selected yet, in a season that's only one quarter over.  As some have said, but some chose to completely disregard, we won't know if it is a good trade or a bad trade until all the players have been selected and played some games. 

Even if it is pick one, there is no guarantee that Nth picks up a better player than Pickett.  Surely Melbourne supporters understand better than most that pick numbers mean absolutely nothing.

It's amateurish, outrage generating, click-bait and the usuals are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

 

 

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Hannan #46 ?? 3rd rd   51 games * 

A bit off topic, but he's been good in his two games back. Much better than his offerings last year when he was clearly unfit/injured.

Hopefully he can continue to be a useful forward for us this year.

[dazzledavey36 55,358]

37 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Absolutely.  Not knocking your right to hold that view, merely commenting on where I see it potentially going down the road.  I could well be wrong in that, but that's life.

And I didn't believe you were writing LJ off - in fact, I see you as someone who isn't prone to making such quick judgements on players.  But I see LJ as the modern footballer.  He can ruck, go forward, impact the play around the ground and is very athletic for his size.  He will take time, but I can see him being exactly what we need going forward.

I think we all see this Wise. I think every club would love a Luke Jackson based on his raw potential. 

But right now we are losing games because our simple inability to hit targets going inside 50 and around. This has been a concern raised by many on here since mid 2018. 

My current concern is was Luke Jackson really what we needed at pick 3? And trust this is no way a blight on Jackson the footballer as I think he'll develop into a fine footballer. But I highlighted three players that should have been in our sight at that pick that fit the bill of improving the skill set of our side. Its such a glaring weakness, and yet Simon Goodwin and the recruiting staff I feel did not address this at all. let me just say I was happy we did select Jackson, but this was I suppose on the back what I thought would be an improved year and that our skills would be vastly improved.

Jackson becoming a good forward is years away down the track. He was picked on glimpses that he showed at Colts level. Glimpse that never saw him kick more then 2 goals in any games. 

Maybe I am too impatient of wanting Jackson to come in and make an impact straight away. I look at Ash, Young and now Stephens who are all playing games of AFL and contributing already (Stephens is debuting this weekend ) and bit envious of them.

Rivers and Pickett will be rippers btw.

Edited July 8, 2020 by dazzledavey36

[Little Richard 6,265]

Couldn't help myself so I had a look at the North supporters discussion over on BigFooty. Sure we're in a trash position at the moment with this years draft but their arrogance for a club arguably more insignificant than us, knows no bounds.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-death-riding-melbourne-nmfc-owns-mfcs-1st-4th-2020-picks-keep-your-eye-on-the-red-and-the-blue.1230744/page-44

Edited July 8, 2020 by Luther

[Wiseblood 24,637]

 

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

Maybe I am too impatient of wanting Jackson to come in and make an impact straight away. I look at Ash, Young and now Stephens who are all playing games of AFL and contributing already (Stephens is debuting this weekend ) and bit envious of them.

Rivers and Pickett will be rippers btw.

All fair and good points, dazzle.

I wanted to highlight this part of your post.  While those above are already playing senior footy, and in some cases (Young) contributing well, I think the club eyed someone like Rivers who could do the same thing long term.  While he was quieter on the weekend, we've already seen what a confident, dashing half back he is, and he uses the ball by foot quite well.  He may not be playing to the level of a Young, but he is showing some really, really good signs.

It's harder to find a Jackson further into the draft, which is why they may have gone for him so early.  Max isn't going to play forever, and by the time he is coming good, Max will probably be on his way out.  He can learn from one of the best ruckmen in the game, and then play there for the majority of his career in much the same fashion Grundy does.

For me, I think the club did a really good job with our drafting.  They identified need - the modern tall, the zippy, creative and clever small forward, and the dashing half back who is already showing that he understands how to play both defensively and offensively.

Your points are all valid, and of course time will tell down the line, but I think at the moment we made the right decisions.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

Fail to develop players is our issue, we need better coaches from that area. 

How we can judge the draft choices from 2019 at this point is beyond me. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Ethan Tremblay

[The Stigga 1,094]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Fail to develop players is our issue, we need better coaches from that area. 

How we can judge the draft choices from 2019 at this point is beyond me. 

Agree, the reality is we had Pick 3 last year used it on a player, who should be our next Judd or Buddy.