On the Couch - The Red Zone

[Rednblueriseing 824]

3 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Clayton Oliver is a star and may yet win a Brownlow

He's capable but has to work hard on his game to become a great player and great teammate 

[jnrmac 20,059]

3 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Clayton Oliver is a star and may yet win a Brownlow

Not playing like he did on Sunday he won't.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, frankie_d said:

First game of 2019. I turn up at the G, ready for a good competitive year.

Max gets the hit out from the opening bounce. Jones gets the ball and bombs it forward. Intercept mark, and transition to the other end.

As the great man sings: "Same as it ever was"

You know, the content of these discussion is interesting and informative  --- but the reason for the discussions is a sad sad reality. We are failing again. All of us on DL can see it. Except for Northey,  Daniher (at least we were around the mark most of the time),  and 2018, we have been a failure of a club. I'm old enough to have been there in '64. Northey provided me with some years of pride, as did Daniher. For the remainder of the more than 50 years since then, we have been a failure.  We've had different reasons for failure, but we have failed. 

I'm deeply unimpressed with the Chairman of the Board and the corporate bullsh$t. How could a club make a movie like To Hell and Back, and then serve up this crap. Stop talking the talk - NEVER talk the talk. Just walk the walk.

I think the biggest loss is personnel is Peter Jackson. Hard as nails, smart and took no prisoners. Pert has been brought in by the board to get Club facilities sorted out - important, but right now, irrelevant. If we don't win, we are dead.

 

Good to see you on FD.  Been a while or have i missed your other posts of late?  Unfortunately under not so great circumstances.

Aside from getting the experience of Roos on board, the next appointment was always going to be super critical for the club's success or otherwise in a post Roos environment.  Especially seeing as Roos really didn't stay the required course needed to fully right the sinking ship.

As much as i would love to see SG and the boys get this right and succeed i'm really struggling to see where the turnaround is going to come from given we've been seeing the same old same old  rubbish since the Prelim 2018.  As SW is always reminding us, we never truly addressed the issues surrounding that massive fail / capitulation.

The MFC has too often done this IMO, including the '88' GF debacle under Swooper as well as the 2000 loss under Danners.  We basically went ahead with pretty much the same team into 2001 'hoping' that somehow, just maybe, the 2000 loss was an aberration.  It wasn't and we went on to miss finals that year dropping a massive nine places to 11th!  If you lose a GF by 10 plus goals your team is basically 10 plus goals behind the best in the league.  That's still a massive gap and needs to be be addressed list wise.

The same should have happened after 2018 prelim.  It needed a major review / serious look in the mirror across the entire list not just the line coaches mid 2019, but it never happened.

I still think our biggest mistake of recent times list wise was two first rounders for Lever.  No one other than maybe a G Ablett type is worth that sort of sacrifice.  Especially a defender.  We are paying for that in a big way now IMO.  Should have gone after a couple of genuine forwards.

If Brown, T-Mac and/or Weid can't find the pill and hit the scoreboard in a significant way for the remainder of the season it's time to thank them for their services and waive them goodbye.  The same goes across the board for the likes of Hunt, Melk and maybe even one or two big names of the club if they don't ship up.  A significant part of the blame no doubt lies with SG.  But if the players don't also pull their socks up from here then some will also need to pay a price for the betterment of the club.

Aside from a few years under Swooper, i am still yet to see a ruthless edge / stick taken to this club and its players.  And don't think it isn't needed.  We are like no other club in the league.  We continue to find new ways of dishing up horrid results on the field season after season, decade after decade.  A massive stick is what is needed at year's end if there is no miraculous turnaround in form.

Do Pert and the board have it in them?  Or are they just along for the ride as we've seen with so many others over the decades.  We are in desperate need of a heart and soul CEO right now a la Benny Gale.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

4 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Good to see you on FD.  Been a while or have i missed your other posts of late?  Unfortunately under not so great circumstances.

Aside from getting the experience of Roos on board, the next appointment was always going to be super critical for the club's success or otherwise in a post Roos environment.  Especially seeing as Roos really didn't stay the required course needed to fully right the sinking ship.

As much as i would love to see SG and the boys get this right and succeed i'm really struggling to see where the turnaround is going to come from given we've been seeing the same old same old  rubbish since the Prelim 2018.  As SW is always reminding us, we never truly addressed the issues surrounding that massive fail / capitulation.

The MFC has too often done this IMO, including the '88' GF debacle under Swooper as well as the 2000 loss under Danners.  We basically went ahead with pretty much the same team into 2001 'hoping' that somehow, just maybe, the 2000 loss was an aberration.  It wasn't and we went on to miss finals that year dropping a massive nine places to 11th!  If you lose a GF by 10 plus goals your team is basically 10 plus goals behind the best in the league.  That's still a massive gap and needs to be be addressed list wise.

The same should have happened after 2018 prelim.  It needed a major review / serious look in the mirror across the entire list not just the line coaches mid 2019, but it never happened.

I still think our biggest mistake of recent times list wise was two first rounders for Lever.  No one other than maybe a G Ablett type is worth that sort of sacrifice.  Especially a defender.  We are paying for that in a big way now IMO.  Should have gone after a couple of genuine forwards.

If Brown, T-Mac and/or Weid can't find the pill and hit the scoreboard in a significant way for the remainder of the season it's time to thank them for their services and waive them goodbye.  The same goes across the board for the likes of Hunt, Melk and maybe even one or two other big names of the club if they don't ship up.  A significant part of the blame no doubt lies with SG.  But if the players don't also pull their socks up from here then some will also need to pay a price for the betterment of the club.

Aside from a few years under Swooper, i am still yet to see a ruthless edge / stick taken to this club and its players.  And don't think it isn't needed.  We are like no other club in the league.  We continue to find new ways of dishing up horrid results on the field season after season, decade after decade.  A massive stick is what is needed at year's end if there is no miraculous turnaround in form.

Do Pert and the board have it in them?  Or are they just along for the ride as we've seen with so many others over the decades.  We are in desperate need of a heart and soul CEO right now a la Benny Gale.

Spot on Rusty. The MFC does not fully face up to its problems

The results are all easy to see

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Ouch! said:

No you wouldn't .... because ALL players across the comp are playing 20% less, so it's all relative to each other.... statistically shouldn't make an impact.

No it does if you are comparing averages of individuals from this year to their previous year averages without adjusting for the 20% loss of game time.  On the other hand, comparing 'team' averages against the rest of the comp (eg., differentials) is relative and no adjustment is necessary.

The 20% time differential impacts the ability of all players to rack up stats vs prior years.  it needs to be taken off when comparing an individual.  Those players who are sitting around 0% change after adding back 20% differential are basically treading water vs 2019 or prior.  Anyone down more than 20% (significantly) has gone backwards (statistically anyway).

Edited July 7, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[frankie_d 1,471]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

Good to see you on FD.  Been a while or have i missed your other posts of late?  Unfortunately under not so great circumstances.

Aside from getting the experience of Roos on board, the next appointment was always going to be super critical for the club's success or otherwise in a post Roos environment.  Especially seeing as Roos really didn't stay the required course needed to fully right the sinking ship.

As much as i would love to see SG and the boys get this right and succeed i'm really struggling to see where the turnaround is going to come from given we've been seeing the same old same old  rubbish since the Prelim 2018.  As SW is always reminding us, we never truly addressed the issues surrounding that massive fail / capitulation.

The MFC has too often done this IMO, including the '88' GF debacle under Swooper as well as the 2000 loss under Danners.  We basically went ahead with pretty much the same team into 2001 'hoping' that somehow, just maybe, the 2000 loss was an aberration.  It wasn't and we went on to miss finals that year dropping a massive nine places to 11th!  If you lose a GF by 10 plus goals your team is basically 10 plus goals behind the best in the league.  That's still a massive gap and needs to be be addressed list wise.

The same should have happened after 2018 prelim.  It needed a major review / serious look in the mirror across the entire list not just the line coaches mid 2019, but it never happened.

I still think our biggest mistake of recent times list wise was two first rounders for Lever.  No one other than maybe a G Ablett type is worth that sort of sacrifice.  Especially a defender.  We are paying for that in a big way now IMO.  Should have gone after a couple of genuine forwards.

If Brown, T-Mac and/or Weid can't find the pill and hit the scoreboard in a significant way for the remainder of the season it's time to thank them for their services and waive them goodbye.  The same goes across the board for the likes of Hunt, Melk and maybe even one or two big names of the club if they don't ship up.  A significant part of the blame no doubt lies with SG.  But if the players don't also pull their socks up from here then some will also need to pay a price for the betterment of the club.

Aside from a few years under Swooper, i am still yet to see a ruthless edge / stick taken to this club and its players.  And don't think it isn't needed.  We are like no other club in the league.  We continue to find new ways of dishing up horrid results on the field season after season, decade after decade.  A massive stick is what is needed at year's end if there is no miraculous turnaround in form.

Do Pert and the board have it in them?  Or are they just along for the ride as we've seen with so many others over the decades.  We are in desperate need of a heart and soul CEO right now a la Benny Gale.

Thanks Rusty. Were you referring to your circumstance - if so, I hope they've evened out. I'm in pretty good shape, and waking up in the morning is a bloody highlight!!

 

 

[jumbo returns 6,741]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Not playing like he did on Sunday he won't.

You and I both know that he is better than that

[jumbo returns 6,741]

3 hours ago, Rednblueriseing said:

He's capable but has to work hard on his game to become a great player and great teammate 

Great teammate - definitely agree! 

Is there enough trust amongst our players?

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

20 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

17 other Coaches seem to have worked it out 6/6/6 (and quickly) U.H.

Goody is struggling badly....

He has got serious work in front of him, right now

The Media are on him...

It's about utilising the players strengths ots not a hard concept to grasp.

Contested ball team (we were no.1 for a reason) less contests = worse team.

The coach is one part on a team. If the players cant execute you dont have a lot of options. 

If you dont get the concept there is no point discussing it. You dont have to be a geniusto work out our players arent skillful.

[Deemania since 56 6,634]

20 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Frost was embarassing the Lever camp. They had to act. 

That would not surprise me. Frosty went from a learning footballer to a reliable excitement machine on the backline, improving in skills and contribution on the median curve very nicely. He'd also chase down errant opposition forwards - gave them panic attacks that fluffed their kicks and handballs - enabling a Demon to take possession (if Frosty didn't at that spot on the ground). Whoreform knew it, inflating his opportunities to get him. The MFC hierarchy fell for it all.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

16 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

It's about utilising the players strengths ots not a hard concept to grasp.

Contested ball team (we were no.1 for a reason) less contests = worse team.

The coach is one part on a team. If the players cant execute you dont have a lot of options. 

If you dont get the concept there is no point discussing it. You dont have to be a geniusto work out our players arent skillful.

But that’s 18 months ago

We are still playing the same way

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

35 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But that’s 18 months ago

We are still playing the same way

No we're not, it's as simple as that.

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

2 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

No we're not, it's as simple as that.

 

We are playing the same way as post Preliminary Final. 
That game cracked us open

[picket fence 17,146]

9 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Clayton Oliver is a star and may yet win a Brownlow

AGREE and has been unfairly CRUCIFIED by many here and in the media!

I'm backin ya son!

[Earl Hood 6,086]

Well it has been interesting to read Demonland comments, then Garry Lyon, Fox Sport analysis about our problems. I took that on board and sat down to watch a replay of our first half debacle against Richmond. I watched 50 minutes of footy but stopped and rewound our every foray forward into our forward zone and that uses up time. But when you freeze frame critical moves you see time and time again what we aren’t doing. That is consistently NOT picking the right option to pas the ball for advantage for the team structure we have. 
 

On paper the fix is easy, it is not about poor kicking skills, it is about decision making. Looking at all our forward attacks over again the issue is all about the ball carrier not being able or wanting to pick out the closest open option and particularly options on either side of you! So many times we have free players on the outside of the ball carrier but they only look inside and then kick long to a contest. When a kick sideways means the defenders have to reset. I cannot believe our coaches are not able to get our players into stopping and evaluating the best short free option. 

On the other hand we are playing with blinkers on and move forward in straight lines to obvious contests and wonder why TMacc gets swamped by defenders. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Earl Hood

[chookrat 4,247]

23 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

healy: "it's not the effort, it's the execution"

"win the ball, don't create damage"

lyon: "i watch this side every single week - they can't kick"

gerard healy reckons we desperately need weed to step up; brown says he needs someone to work with him to develop...justin plapp is meant to have that job hahahahahaha

two main gfx:

and

 

At the risk of making excuses, last year is not a good comparison given the lack of players and need to play players out of position week to week with our revolving door of injured players. We were without players in our best 22 more than 30% more than the next worst team which meant we lacked any ability to build cohesion.

This season has all over the place with Richmond and West coast being poor and us a game behind and having only played two weeks in a row for the first time v Richmond. Let's see how we go over the next 5 games to see how we go with some degree of continuity and more than 4 weeks of training together as a team.

[Hogan2014 390]

Seems like players are running around as if they can only see 2vs1 or 3vs1 & ignore loose players....

Is this game plan or a lack of vision??

[D4Life 2,469]

At start of season if you said we lose to:

West Coast in Perth 4-5 goals

Richmond at MCG 4-5 goals

& Geelong at MCG close loss

Beat Carlton

It wouldn’t be the end of the season 

Demons win this week after picking Bennell for skill , Weideman marking target & Jetta better decision making! The season will stArt to look different!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, frankie_d said:

Thanks Rusty. Were you referring to your circumstance - if so, I hope they've evened out. I'm in pretty good shape, and waking up in the morning is a bloody highlight!!

 

 

Not my circumstances more the club's FD.   Although it hasn't exactly been smooth going at my end either.  What can we do.  It's one crazy year that's for sure.

About the only thing that hasn't changed through all the mayhem that is 2020 is the MFC's consistent ability to find new ways of ripping the heart out of its fans!

[Ethan Tremblay 30,856]

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

At start of season if you said we lose to:

West Coast in Perth 4-5 goals

Richmond at MCG 4-5 goals

& Geelong at MCG close loss

Beat Carlton

It wouldn’t be the end of the season 

Demons win this week after picking Bennell for skill , Weideman marking target & Jetta better decision making! The season will stArt to look different!

It doesn’t sound too bad on paper but in my opinion it’s not the losses themselves that are the concern. It’s the way we’ve played during those games that are the worry. Our opposition hasn’t been particularly good either, we’ve just been worse. We fail to execute even the most basic of skills and look like a rabble. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Ethan Tremblay

[Dr. Gonzo 24,209]

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

At start of season if you said we lose to:

West Coast in Perth 4-5 goals

Richmond at MCG 4-5 goals

& Geelong at MCG close loss

Beat Carlton

It wouldn’t be the end of the season 

Demons win this week after picking Bennell for skill , Weideman marking target & Jetta better decision making! The season will stArt to look different!

It's not necessarily the results, it's the way we've been playing.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

Does Jonno Brown still live in QLD? Can we get him COVID cleared and working with Weid while we're up there?

[D4Life 2,469]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's not necessarily the results, it's the way we've been playing.

I agree aside from one quarter against Carlton, our poor ball use and turnovers have made us look very ordinary at best. I’m not sure what is driving team selection, but doesn’t seem to be skills and structure.

Weideman has to play the next 6-8 weeks at Probably FF,  sit Kossie next to him, and let TMAC get moving at CHF.

VDB while tough and hard, is slow, poor skills and slow to make decisions, Lockhardt has some ability but very slow decision maker, Jetta gets another chance to see if he still has it, or time and injuries have got to him.

Bennell highly skilled has to play replacing Hunt!

Melksham last chance and has to watch video 50 times from near wing/HFF where he burns player running past him and then tries fend off man on mark and  gets tackleD & caught holding the ball!!

Most worrying aspect of team is skill execution which kills any team strategy. But fact we are still ordinary on kick in strategy is a concern!

could go through the whole team on the weekend other than Petracca & Hibberd, on things they can improve.

[dee-tox 4,835]

4 minutes ago, D4Life said:

I agree aside from one quarter against Carlton, our poor ball use and turnovers have made us look very ordinary at best. I’m not sure what is driving team selection, but doesn’t seem to be skills and structure.

Weideman has to play the next 6-8 weeks at Probably FF,  sit Kossie next to him, and let TMAC get moving at CHF.

VDB while tough and hard, is slow, poor skills and slow to make decisions...

One thing VdB is not is slow. For his size is one of the quickest blokes going around.

[Lucifers Hero 39,747]

13 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Great teammate - definitely agree! 

Is there enough trust amongst our players?

Good question!

Not sure what happened to 'team first play' and esprit de corps embedded in 2018.  This year I've noticed selfishness come back into the team particularly in the forward line.  Missed each time.  Melksham was taking crazy angled pot shots from the boundary without even looking for a team mate.  Last week TMac was 40 - 50m but signalled to a free player in the goal square (I think Melksham) that he would go for goal.  Thankfully, he kicked it.

So I wondered whether the pressure has players going self-protective and worried about their stats and own performance and the team suffers as a result.  Then trust is lost. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero