On 30/07/2020 at 10:30, Elegt said:

Get stuffed clayton. King of junk touches

Our best mid so far tonight...

  On 30/07/2020 at 10:53, rjay said:

Our best mid so far tonight...

Funny joke. Hes rubbish

  On 30/07/2020 at 10:53, rjay said:

Our best mid so far tonight...

Your kidding right?

 

  On 30/07/2020 at 11:27, dazzledavey36 said:

Your kidding right?

 

I don't think anyone's been good in the midfield tonight.

I'm a massive Clayton fan, but I can't remember him fumbling as much in a single game before.

Still, look at the midfield as a whole. They've been a hot mess tonight, including our captain.

Definition of ineffective.

  On 30/07/2020 at 11:27, dazzledavey36 said:

Your kidding right?

 

Nup, the bar wasn't high though...up to half time he was ok.

...don't really want to open this up too much for the sniper 'daz'...

My mistake for answering him in the first place.

The only consistency is the sniper taking pot shots at players all over the site tonight.

Again, any criticism of Oliver is unwarranted. Infact it is borderline blasphemy and I'm sure Dr D will be along soon to remind everyone.

The most important measure here is that he has had (almost) the most possessions, the most contested posessions and the most tackles.

The shanks which lead to goals and the hot potato handballs to players in a worse position is completely normal and nothing we should be concerned with from our leading player.

Oliver undoes his good work by his poor disposal.  These two stats for 2020 are telling:

• Ranked 4th in Total Turnovers
• Ranked 2nd in Total Clangers

He is great to watch, a ball magnet, clearance machine and as brave as they come.  But if his i5o's bounce out again, his disposals don't reach team mates and he doesn't kick goals then I'm still of the view that his impact is limited. 

And, I'm beginning to think he is a poor decision maker. 

I think he is a victim of the 'see ball, get ball' indroctrination he has had for 5 years.  He is still a kid and his flaws can be ironed out.   But he needs someone to teach him to open his eyes and stay calm when he gets the ball.

To me he is being coached to expand his game, and has lost a bit of confidence. When he started, yes he handballed a lot, but he was such a creative handballer in traffic. He often was compared to Greg Williams, and for good reason.

I'm still convinced it will turn for him. It might be a case of a step back to take a couple of steps forward in the future.

 

  On 31/07/2020 at 06:08, Demonland said:

 

Starting early this year. I have been as critical of him as anyone but there is no way we trade him. And for one first rounder ?

  On 31/07/2020 at 06:08, Demonland said:

 

Wow that is up there with the dumbest thing I've heard, why would you want to trade high in such a compromised draft year?

Clarry is still relatively young and we should be seeing the best of him in the next 2-3 seasons. He needs someone to work with him on his disposal (particularly his kicking), but he's not even close to his ceiling yet.

Is it possible that Clarry is a bit exhausted? 

He's now into third in the AFL for consecutive games. Plays high minutes. Huge contested numbers. Rarely gets rested on field out of the middle. Goodwin said recently that he was the hardest worker at the club. Would have to have one of the heaviest work-loads in the AFL over the past three years and he needed to work harder on fitness than most coming into the system.  

Watch Darcy Parish run around like a frightened sparrow and just remember that we could have taken him.

Clayton has deficiencies, but they aren’t hardness and desire.

He’ll get better; because that’s what he needs to do. He’s not afraid of the work required.

 

  On 30/07/2020 at 22:37, Lucifer's Hero said:

Oliver undoes his good work by his poor disposal.  These two stats for 2020 are telling:

• Ranked 4th in Total Turnovers
• Ranked 2nd in Total Clangers

He is great to watch, a ball magnet, clearance machine and as brave as they come.  But if his i5o's bounce out again, his disposals don't reach team mates and he doesn't kick goals then I'm still of the view that his impact is limited. 

And, I'm beginning to think he is a poor decision maker. 

I think he is a victim of the 'see ball, get ball' indroctrination he has had for 5 years.  He is still a kid and his flaws can be ironed out.   But he needs someone to teach him to open his eyes and stay calm when he gets the ball.

And that someone is Not Current MFC Coaching staff!! Will he be the latest Player that MFC have failed to develop in the last 25 years??? Please say it aint so!

Edited July 31, 20204 yr by picket fence

Oliver does a lot right but he stands out when he plays poorly because his kicks are absolute coach-killing soul-destroyers.

I don't agree with anyone suggesting we should trade him. He's only just turned 23. He's played 90 games. His peak football is still be ahead of him.

But he clearly has to work on his kicking and, indeed, his disposals under pressure. Too often guilty of the hot potato handball when he's under pressure.

  On 30/07/2020 at 22:44, Forest Demon said:

To me he is being coached to expand his game, and has lost a bit of confidence. When he started, yes he handballed a lot, but he was such a creative handballer in traffic. He often was compared to Greg Williams, and for good reason.

I'm still convinced it will turn for him. It might be a case of a step back to take a couple of steps forward in the future.

Agree, he will turn it around. He's too good not to.

On a similar path, I think the whole team is being over coached at the moment.

Clayton is a prime example.

They often look lost...

Edited July 31, 20204 yr by rjay

I swear when he was at his best in 2017 and 2018, his disposal wasn't this horrific.. he's always had a kicking issue and even from his bushie days he'd miss the odd kick here and there.

But its almost like his skills have all of a sudden dropped significantly. 

No way we should trade him. I can remember the days we could never even get first hands on the ball, they were far worse.

What we need is a better mix in our midfield. I'd like to see Melksham and Salem brought into the midfield more and play as receivers for guys like Oliver and Viney to offload to.

  On 31/07/2020 at 10:57, picket fence said:

And that someone is Not Current MFC Coaching staff!! Will he be the latest Player that MFC have failed to develop in the last 25 years??? Please say it aint so!

Wouldn't rule it out Pickett, we have the worst history when it comes to converting talent and potential into a top grade AFL player. Even Petracca has taken longer than what we would've hope for, albeit he is at least showing what he can do on a very regular basis.

I feel like Oliver has drunk his own bathwater a little, and might be coming crashing down to earth a little. He's still got attributes that COULD put him up there in the top echelon of the competition but now comes the moment where he has to cop the criticism, and absorb the information that will improve his game.

I am a big fan of Oliver and I certainly wouldn’t be dropping or trading him. He has lots to work on but he is doing lots right to. I also look at him and think he would be the easiest player on our list to coach and improve. And I think our midfield set up and structures help contribute to the rubbish handball to a player under more pressure. On his kicking  it looks like he has lost all confidence in his ability to kick. Also prior to having surgery on his shoulders I thought he was a good kick but just didn’t kick enough, post surgery it’s like a different player kicking.

On another note one of the best players in the comp and a club captain is also a rubbish kick and yet very few media people ever talk about it.

  On 31/07/2020 at 11:24, dazzledavey36 said:

I swear when he was at his best in 2017 and 2018, his disposal wasn't this horrific.. he's always had a kicking issue and even from his bushie days he'd miss the odd kick here and there.

But its almost like his skills have all of a sudden dropped significantly. 

You are right, but back then he handballed far more.  It's his kicking that lets him down and he does far more of that now. His sloppy handballs (and there aren't too many of those) usually result in congestion and a ball up.  His errant kicks (and there are more of those) result in turnovers and goals.  It only takes two or three per game for the perception to become reality.

  On 31/07/2020 at 06:08, Demonland said:

 

Hahaha!

I’d consider trading him... for Neale and a first rounder maybe

No way we’d trade him. He’s not perfect, but he’s one of the best young inside midfielders the game has seen for decades.

Goodness me.

Sure, Clayton's ground-grubber mid-way through the third was my final straw and made me turn the TV off, but TRADE HIM? Thankfully no one that matters will listen to this.

  On 01/08/2020 at 01:39, Purple77 said:

Goodness me.

Sure, Clayton's ground-grubber mid-way through the third was my final straw and made me turn the TV off, but TRADE HIM? Thankfully no one that matters will listen to this.

YOU AND I BOTH HOPE NO ONE LISTENS?