CHANGES: Rd 03 vs Essendon

[old dee 24,003]

2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The good news is that Weid reportedly kicked 5 or 6 goals in the scratch match. The bad news is so did Brown apparently.

Both are better than a kid who played his only game since under 18’s today. Watching his selection is proof the FD ain’t that clever. Give the kid a chance to develop away from AFL seniors. What they did was put a sixth grader into Uni and wonder why he struggled.

And why did we recruit Brown and renew  The Weid’s contact last year if neither  is not good enough to play in the second game of the season. As you all know I am not a big fan but surely the Weid is better than a kid in his first game since under 18’s. Will any of us be left here at the end of 2022?

Edited June 13, 2020 by old dee

[The Swimming Dee 1,907]

Smith isn’t up to it. He is a great athlete but not a footballer.

The majority of our issue today was workrate after quarter time. Sort that out and we aren’t a bad team. TMac needs to find form quick

[Ethan Tremblay 31,243]

12 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Besides two brain fades, I thought Smith defended well. I can certainly see why the coaches are in love with him. His athletic ability is quite freakish.

I do wish he was playing up forward though.

He had seven touches, two marks and 1 tackle. I don’t think he defended all that well, especially when the heat was on. (He certainly wasn’t the only one). IMO he’s an athletic guy but not a footballer. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

OUT: Jones, Jackson, Smith

IN: Pickett, Weideman, OMac

Lever and Smith together won't work IMO. Feels more settled when we have May, Lever and OMac, even though I'm not a huge OMac fan.

Bit of a toss up between Jackson and TMac, but I think the combo of TMac and Weid is a better option at this stage and you back your senior players to find form longer than a first year player.

 

[dazzledavey36 55,883]

Just now, Ethan Tremblay said:

He had seven touches, two marks and 1 tackle. I don’t think he defended all that well, especially when the heat was on. (He certainly wasn’t the only one). IMO he’s an athletic guy but not a footballer. 

I think his run and jump is best suited up forward. 

For some strange reason we had the skinny Fritsch playing the legit full forward role on Liam Jones. This is the type of role Smith could utilise his athletic attributes.

Bit like last year against Brisbane when he snagged 4 playing from the square

[old dee 24,003]

Just now, Lord Nev said:

OUT: Jones, Jackson, Smith

IN: Pickett, Weideman, OMac

Lever and Smith together won't work IMO. Feels more settled when we have May, Lever and OMac, even though I'm not a huge OMac fan.

Bit of a toss up between Jackson and TMac, but I think the combo of TMac and Weid is a better option at this stage and you back your senior players to find form longer than a first year player.

 

Re your last para LN it was his  first game since under 18’s last year. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, old dee said:

Re your last para LN it was his  first game since under 18’s last year. 

I'm a Jackson fan, think he'll be something unique for us. There's no rush though is there? Let's develop him at a natural rate. We've seen this story too many times as Dees fans already.

[picket fence 17,977]

Why, if the Brainstrust at Demonland want Smith up forward, can't the footy dept see it???
Beggars Belief really!!

[Watts the matter 1,235]

8 minutes ago, old dee said:

Re your last para LN it was his  first game since under 18’s last year. 

He played in the preseason. Similar output.

[Earl Hood 6,142]

21 minutes ago, The Swimming Dee said:

Smith isn’t up to it. He is a great athlete but not a footballer.

The majority of our issue today was workrate after quarter time. Sort that out and we aren’t a bad team. TMac needs to find form quick

Trouble is work rate is mental stuff not fitness. We got arrogant in the second quarter, thinking it was just going to be a stroll in the park and what worries me the over confident, lairising culprits were our on field leaders, Max and Steven May in the second quarter giving away 2 goals and letting the Blues back into the game. After that the team lost its nerve and confidence. That said it is Smith out,  OMac in I think. Kossie in and Lockhart possibilities. And the Weid in and need to seriously look at TMac 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Earl Hood

[binman 44,533]

6 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Trouble is work rate is mental stuff not fitness. We got arrogant in the second quarter, thinking it was just going to be a stroll in the park and what worries me the over confident, lairising culprits were our on field leaders, Max and Steven May in the second quarter giving away 2 goals and letting the Blues back into the game. After that the team lost its nerve and confidence. That said it is Smith out,  OMac in I think. Kossie in and Lockhart possibilities. And the Weid in and need to seriously look at TMac 

As much as i'd like to see OMac back i reckon it would be a mistake to drop smith. Dropping an inexperienced player after the one game, particularly when you have backed him in is bad for everyone i reckon and as rule shouldn't happen. Would do Smiths head in and smash his confidence.

Tmac is another thing all together. I'd be dropping him and replacing him with Weid. Tmac is simply not mobile enough at the moment and has the turning circle of the Ruby Princess.  

[Lord Travis 10,793]

Smith was absolute rubbish today. One of the worst games by a player I can remember. The only decent football he’s played at AFL level was up forward in a preseason match. We lack forward targets. Try Smith up forward or drop him.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Lord Travis

[JTR 2,884]

37 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Why, if the Brainstrust at Demonland want Smith up forward, can't the footy dept see it???
Beggars Belief really!!

LOL

[spirit of norm smith 16,615]

Jetta May Lever

Salem Omcd Rivers

Langdon Viney Tomlinson 

Petracca Tmcd Melksham 

Fritsch Weid Pickett

Gawn Harmes Oliver

int Brayshaw Jones Hunt Bennell

in. Omcd Pickett Weid 

out. Smith Anb Jackson 

emerg Lockhart. Hibberd Jackson

Smith and Anb are obvious outs.  Weideman must be played. We simply need to see if he can be the target full forward that we DESPERATELY NEED ! 

[dazzledavey36 55,883]

Apparently Weideman kicked about 5 or 6 goals in today's scratch match.

 

[titan_uranus 25,176]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Besides two brain fades, I thought Smith defended well. I can certainly see why the coaches are in love with him. His athletic ability is quite freakish.

I do wish he was playing up forward though.

I just do not see what you see, dazzle. I know you're not the only one, but I thought Smith was our worst defender today by a mile. Lever cops it because we spent two first round picks on him but Smith was so much worse.

If we're going to drop a defender IMO it has to be Smith, but I'm inclined to leave the backline as it is, with one exception: get Harmes out of there. Surely Lockhart can play Harmes' role?

Harmes goes into the middle where someone has to go - Brayshaw is in line to be dropped IMO. I love him, but he and Oliver are emblematic of our problem: sub-standard defensive pressure when we need it the most. 

Hunt and ANB were pretty poor for 2.5 quarters but as they kicked 5 of our 8 goals, I can't see them getting dropped.

Jones and Melksham, though, should be in trouble. Pickett and AVB could be replacements?

I'd also look at Weideman in place of TMac or Jackson (TMac deserves to be dropped but Jackson just doesn't look ready).

[Little Goffy 14,751]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Casboult, McGovern and McKay combined for all of 2 goals. I don't think we missed the big witches hat at all.

This is true, but there were also multiple goals given away because our defenders either all went for the same contest (several times I saw three go up, and the record I saw was five at one, it made me dizzy) and nobody was on hand to deal with the spill. I think our whole system of defense gets disordered without O.Mac because both May (a smart, roving, bold CHB) and Lever (a prolific intercepting third tall defender) are being shuffled into more directly accountable roles that don't suit them quite as well, and they end up second guessing.

If we had Oscar out there, not only would the 'up vs down at the contest' decisions have been that little bit clearer, but we also would have had Lever and May both much more free to read the play and cut off or split some of the numerous marks at HF and wing that McGovern, Casboult and McKay did take.

So, structurally, by allowing other players to play to their strengths, Oscar's presence could have profoundly change the momentum of the game.  And it would be completely invisible because the change would take the form of someone else taking a saving mark 50m away, or someone else knowing that predictable dour ol' Oscar will definitely go the spoil so I'll be ready to protect the spill out the back or collect and rebound from the front.

Both May and Lever had pretty poor days.  Lever with just 3 marks and May with... none.  There's a reason we were continuously under the pump when Carlton lifted - we just had no moments of clean control of the ball in defense.  Hence the series of wobbly rebounds and inability to make the crucial counter-attack goals that regain momentum.

The other defenders on our list are also intercept-leaning rather than close-checking (Hibberd, Smith) or simply small, or just very young.

You don't need a star at fullback, but you do need a fullback at fullback.

[binman 44,533]

56 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I think his run and jump is best suited up forward. 

For some strange reason we had the skinny Fritsch playing the legit full forward role on Liam Jones. This is the type of role Smith could utilise his athletic attributes.

Bit like last year against Brisbane when he snagged 4 playing from the square

As i posted i don't understand why they have not stuck with him as a forward. He trained all presason before last year as a forward and looked the part. as you say kicked four on aday we couldn't but a gola. And then sat out the season.

We are in desperate need of a marking forward and they play him back. Makes no sense. He could have played the role Jackson was asked to tonight and would have had more impact.

[titan_uranus 25,176]

Just now, Little Goffy said:

This is true, but there were also multiple goals given away because our defenders either all went for the same contest (several times I saw three go up, and the record I saw was five at one, it made me dizzy) and nobody was on hand to deal with the spill. I think our whole system of defense gets disordered without O.Mac because both May (a smart, roving, bold CHB) and Lever (a prolific intercepting third tall defender) are being shuffled into more directly accountable roles that don't suit them quite as well, and they end up second guessing.

If we had Oscar out there, not only would the 'up vs down at the contest' decisions have been that little bit clearer, but we also would have had Lever and May both much more free to read the play and cut off or split some of the numerous marks at HF and wing that McGovern, Casboult and McKay did take.

So, structurally, by allowing other players to play to their strengths, Oscar's presence could have profoundly change the momentum of the game.  And it would be completely invisible because the change would take the form of someone else taking a saving mark 50m away, or someone else knowing that predictable dour ol' Oscar will definitely go the spoil so I'll be ready to protect the spill out the back or collect and rebound from the front.

Both May and Lever had pretty poor days.  Lever with just 3 marks and May with... none.  There's a reason we were continuously under the pump when Carlton lifted - we just had no moments of clean control of the ball in defense.  Hence the series of wobbly rebounds and inability to make the crucial counter-attack goals that regain momentum.

The other defenders on our list are also intercept-leaning rather than close-checking (Hibberd, Smith) or simply small, or just very young.

You don't need a star at fullback, but you do need a fullback at fullback.

I agree with the problem, but not with the argument that OMac is part of the solution.

We had this exact same problem last year when OMac was in the side.

IMO the problem is that we lack a defensive unit which plays as a unit. The better sides' backlines work together so much better than ours does.

[binman 44,533]

2 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

This is true, but there were also multiple goals given away because our defenders either all went for the same contest (several times I saw three go up, and the record I saw was five at one, it made me dizzy) and nobody was on hand to deal with the spill. I think our whole system of defense gets disordered without O.Mac because both May (a smart, roving, bold CHB) and Lever (a prolific intercepting third tall defender) are being shuffled into more directly accountable roles that don't suit them quite as well, and they end up second guessing.

If we had Oscar out there, not only would the 'up vs down at the contest' decisions have been that little bit clearer, but we also would have had Lever and May both much more free to read the play and cut off or split some of the numerous marks at HF and wing that McGovern, Casboult and McKay did take.

So, structurally, by allowing other players to play to their strengths, Oscar's presence could have profoundly change the momentum of the game.  And it would be completely invisible because the change would take the form of someone else taking a saving mark 50m away, or someone else knowing that predictable dour ol' Oscar will definitely go the spoil so I'll be ready to protect the spill out the back or collect and rebound from the front.

Both May and Lever had pretty poor days.  Lever with just 3 marks and May with... none.  There's a reason we were continuously under the pump when Carlton lifted - we just had no moments of clean control of the ball in defense.  Hence the series of wobbly rebounds and inability to make the crucial counter-attack goals that regain momentum.

The other defenders on our list are also intercept-leaning rather than close-checking (Hibberd, Smith) or simply small, or just very young.

You don't need a star at fullback, but you do need a fullback at fullback.

Good post.

The other things that Oscar brings is reliability by foot and good penetration on his kicks. Late in that last quarter both Smith and Lever had kicks from behind the defensive 50 metre arc after taking a mark and stopping (ie not playing on). So under no pressure from an opponent.  In both situations i had no confidence they would kick to our advantage.  

Both helicoptered/floated  40 metre kicks that made it easy to spoil. Neither were to our advantage. Oscar would have driven it lower and faster and kicked to our advantage (ie the right side of the contest). And if a player had sprinted to open space (by the by why did that not happen?) i would be confident he would hit them 

[dl4e 5,851]

In. The Weed, Lockhart and Sparrow.

Out. Anb, Smith and Jones.

[Demon Disciple 12,452]

3 hours ago, Swooper Northey said:

Weideman for Jackson. I'm not critical of Jackson but he's raw and will take time. Weid has to be ahead of him at this point.

Pickett for ANB.

OMac for Smith

Also need to find a way to get vandenBerg in. 

I'd take your namesake over the current muppet at the helm SN. What a coach he was. Whilst Goodwin likes to cuddle the boys, Northey would tear strips off them and turn them into men.

[dazzledavey36 55,883]

4 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

I'd take your namesake over the current muppet at the helm SN. What a coach he was. Whilst Goodwin likes to cuddle the boys, Northey would tear strips off them and turn them into men.

Gone are those days DD.

Look how that turned out when a certain Mark Neeld tried to pull that [censored] off.

[Demon Disciple 12,452]

6 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Gone are those days DD.

Look how that turned out when a certain Mark Neeld tried to pull that [censored] off.

Hang on @dazzledavey36, one was demanding and determined, the other was purely a sociopath

Edited June 13, 2020 by Demon Disciple

[DeeSpencer 26,290]

1 minute ago, Little Goffy said:

This is true, but there were also multiple goals given away because our defenders either all went for the same contest (several times I saw three go up, and the record I saw was five at one, it made me dizzy) and nobody was on hand to deal with the spill. I think our whole system of defense gets disordered without O.Mac because both May (a smart, roving, bold CHB) and Lever (a prolific intercepting third tall defender) are being shuffled into more directly accountable roles that don't suit them quite as well, and they end up second guessing.

If we had Oscar out there, not only would the 'up vs down at the contest' decisions have been that little bit clearer, but we also would have had Lever and May both much more free to read the play and cut off or split some of the numerous marks at HF and wing that McGovern, Casboult and McKay did take.

So, structurally, by allowing other players to play to their strengths, Oscar's presence could have profoundly change the momentum of the game.  And it would be completely invisible because the change would take the form of someone else taking a saving mark 50m away, or someone else knowing that predictable dour ol' Oscar will definitely go the spoil so I'll be ready to protect the spill out the back or collect and rebound from the front.

Both May and Lever had pretty poor days.  Lever with just 3 marks and May with... none.  There's a reason we were continuously under the pump when Carlton lifted - we just had no moments of clean control of the ball in defense.  Hence the series of wobbly rebounds and inability to make the crucial counter-attack goals that regain momentum.

The other defenders on our list are also intercept-leaning rather than close-checking (Hibberd, Smith) or simply small, or just very young.

You don't need a star at fullback, but you do need a fullback at fullback.

Oscar's been a core part of the team for years when they've continued to all fly at the same ball. It was hardly a new problem tonight.

In fact this may be harsh but I reckon Oscar's lack of reliability in a pack has been a key part of why Jetta, Hibberd and our other small defenders have always been so desperate to leave their men and fly 3rd or 4th or 5th man up.

I've never seen May as a CHB. He played one great game against the Swans chopping 3rd man across against Buddy but otherwise his main strength has been as a lock down defender. His body didn't hold up to the extra kms last year. He's not overly tall and has flat hands when marking. I still think the best role for May is to try to get what the Tigers get with Grimes and before him Rance. Deepest defender who gets his share of intercepts dropping back in to space.

Oscar could come in and play the Astbury role but if we keep midfield pressure combined with having May and Smith behind him he shouldn't face one on ones inside defensive 50. At some stage Jake has to start winning contests even if he's against a dangerous CHF.