MATCH SIM: Saturday 6th June 2020

[Lord Travis 10,702]

47 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It’s not.

Agreed, it’s not stacked. West Coast midfields is an example of a stacked midfield. Our midfield had full personnel last year. Barely a game missed by Gawn, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes, Petracca, Jones etc. we finished 17th and were the least effective team in history at converting inside 50s into goals. 

We might have some talented names in there, but reality is our midfield rarely performs well outside of winning ball and bombing it to the opposition. Yes we’ve added Langdon and Tomlinson to the wings, but neither are classy outsiders and both just add running power, not smarts and clean disposal.

Our midfield needs a shakeup. I’d be looking to trade one of Brayshaw, Petracca or Viney. There are clubs like Essendon crying out for ball winning midfielders. We’re crying out of classy disposers. Gotta give something to get something.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,837]

Thanks for the reports. Did we still manage to lose? 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

12 hours ago, rpfc said:

Midfield is stacked. Harmes is in the backline to break the lines. Which we don’t have anyone for. I think it’s a great idea.

Especially if Petracca steps up.

Will not work.

[whatwhat say what 22,714]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Agreed, it’s not stacked. West Coast midfields is an example of a stacked midfield. Our midfield had full personnel last year. Barely a game missed by Gawn, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes, Petracca, Jones etc. we finished 17th and were the least effective team in history at converting inside 50s into goals. 

We might have some talented names in there, but reality is our midfield rarely performs well outside of winning ball and bombing it to the opposition. Yes we’ve added Langdon and Tomlinson to the wings, but neither are classy outsiders and both just add running power, not smarts and clean disposal.

Our midfield needs a shakeup. I’d be looking to trade one of Brayshaw, Petracca or Viney. There are clubs like Essendon crying out for ball winning midfielders. We’re crying out of classy disposers. Gotta give something to get something.

brayshaw signed a long-term deal year before last, trac signed up prior to this season, and viney is an rfa at the end of this season

the issue with trading one of these three - and for me it'd be brayshaw every day of the week cos i just don't rate him - is what you'll get back

peptides with dodoro in charge would offer a third round pick; we'd probably end up with parish or lesser equivalent

is brayshaw better than parish? arguably...you certainly wouldn't be looking to go anywhere near one of langford or laverde who are other types that the peppies fanatics often tout as their 'trade bait'

[Half forward flank 1,022]

I see 

7 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

brayshaw signed a long-term deal year before last, trac signed up prior to this season, and viney is an rfa at the end of this season

the issue with trading one of these three - and for me it'd be brayshaw every day of the week cos i just don't rate him - is what you'll get back

peptides with dodoro in charge would offer a third round pick; we'd probably end up with parish or lesser equivalent

is brayshaw better than parish? arguably...you certainly wouldn't be looking to go anywhere near one of langford or laverde who are other types that the peppies fanatics often tout as their 'trade bait'

I see Brayshaw as the sort of kid at Junior level who had a stronger than average body and a bit of pedigee so always got played in the middle where there are plenty of kicks and attention to be had.  I know he had a good Brownlow year and happy to be proved wrong as I know he had the head know but think he could be overtaken this year by others vying for a midfield spot like Sparrow

[Nelo 813]

I think I know why lever is missing training. Looking at the soccer tournament video Lever had a dirty great big ice pack on his knee. 

[george_on_the_outer 7,589]

I know it is only a 1 minute snippet, but that 2nd video of McGowans shows very little forward pressure, particularly from the mids once the ball was moved to the HB line. 

[P-man 13,366]

So we are persisting with Harmes in the backline. Super duper.

[Yokozuna 1,004]

First time on here in a long time, and good to see things haven’t changed.

judging some of the comments, we have already lost the next 4 games, sacked Goodwin and are a rubbish club,

While that may all be true, we haven’t even okayed the game yet!

Replying to people questioning our small forward structure, I can tell you that we will have 2 tall forwards, I think tmac and wied, along with a stack of smalls this week. Someone said carltons defense is poor, that is half true. Their tall backs are very good, their small backs are very good at going forward, but crap at defending small forwards. If you look at their games recently (last season, praccy games and round 1) the oppositions smalls all kick goals, so we are planning on kozzie and others to kick 3 each.

we also need to make sure our talls are separated as Jones and plowman are very good help defenders.

bennell definitely in the mix, but they may play Jones as a HFF.

rivers and Smith very much in line to play this week too.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Yokozuna

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

14 hours ago, rjay said:

Yep, I get the logic.

So far he hasn't really stepped up in the role but it's very early days.

Let's see how he reads the play, he's good around the ball & in the contest when taken to it.

...but does he have the footy smarts to make the play off half back.

Limited viewing in preseason & the WC game throw some doubt but time will tell.

He might pickup Jack Martin or Betts.

I don't like Salem all that much as a defender,  but his vision and run/kick, coming out of Def is good.  But so is Harmes, and can shutdown players.

 

With Harmes running from the back 50,  it allows us to continue to work on building our midfield,  which still needs plenty of work to get it near the best.

[whatwhat say what 22,714]

2 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

He might pickup Jack Martin or Betts.

I don't like Salem all that much as a defender,  but his vision and run/kick, coming out of Def is good.  But so is Harmes, and can shutdown players.

 

With Harmes running from the back 50,  it allows us to continue to work on building our midfield,  which still needs plenty of work to get it near the best.

one of my big worries re harmes was seen in the marc mcgowan twitter vids - instead of minding his man (fritsch, who had isolated him as a full forward) he went to the contest, which resulted in fritsch getting an easy mark and goal

i am a big fan of harmes running thru the midfield as a run-with mid who can attacks and hits the scoreboard

i can understand why they want to try him down back...i'm just not personally a fan of it as an option

(but it seems like it's happening)

[drysdale demon 4,830]

3 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Our midfield needs a shakeup. I’d be looking to trade one of Brayshaw, Petracca or Viney.

I wouldn't think that our football dept. is that dumb.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

30 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

one of my big worries re harmes was seen in the marc mcgowan twitter vids - instead of minding his man (fritsch, who had isolated him as a full forward) he went to the contest, which resulted in fritsch getting an easy mark and goal

(but it seems like it's happening)

Yeah, no doubt,  and that's why its imperative for him to learn to adjust to that part of the ground.   He already possesses the skills for the midfield,  so we have him ready to go in there when the time s right...   just not right now,  as he needs to get better at other areas.

 

And we need to develop others, inside the midfield.  Bennell, Vandenberg, Sparrow, Spargo, Jordon, Lockhart, Dunkley... and I would also like to see Rivers get a run there as well,  just to see.

 

Some here cry out for more class inside the Mids,  but don't want to make changes for that to happen.    SO Melbourne.    Want to keep the cake,  but want to eat it now, as well.

Edited June 7, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[whatwhat say what 22,714]

32 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

And we need to develop others, inside the midfield.  Bennell, Vandenberg, Sparrow, Spargo, Jordon, Lockhart, Dunkley... and I would also like to see Rivers get a run there as well,  just to see.

if we have the majority of those folks in the mids as opposed to viney, oliver, petracca, brayshaw, harmes, langdon, tomlinson, and even jones we are in big trouble

adding langdon and tomlinson plus replacing jones with trac along with harmes going back means our mid make-up is quite different automatically

[titan_uranus 24,983]

19 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

So based on Lever’s write up, Goodwin is backing the midget forward line to get the job done. He mentioned Weid and TMac playing high HF roles and relying on Melky Fritta and Kozzie. This may work on transition once in a while, but given that we often win the midfield battle and bomb forward, the disconnect will continue. Any coach, who had 3 months to review any of the tapes from rd 1, would be able to pick that up. 
 

Then you have McDonald’s interview, which was less than convincing. He suggests that supporters may still feel frustrated by the forward structure. That sounded more like he was frustrated. Probably because he is again being played out of position. 
 

hate to sound pessimistic, but the script seems written. Dominate the midfield, win clearances, have good defence but cannot convert inside 50s to goals. A losing formula. And when we get outnumbered on the rebound, sides cut ya up and score easily. 
 

happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t think this side is going anywhere under Goodwin. He seems stubborn and talks a lot, but we never see the action. A real salesman

Yes, but what if there has been improvement in the midfielders honouring leading players and hitting targets (which is something Lever08 has mentioned)?

A smaller forward line can work: look at Richmond. The key isn't necessarily the height of the forward line but making sure that, whatever forward line we go with, our ball movement suits it.

So, if we're going to have TMac and Weid/Jackson leading up the ground out of the 50, their leads need to be solid, we need to honour those leads, and they need to hold their marks. If that frees up space for Fritsch (who is smaller but plays a marking forward role), Melksham, Petracca and Pickett, then that can work.

My thought on TMac's comments in the video is that we're doing something new/different and it works some times, but not all the time. I didn't, at all, read into his comments that he's frustrated with his personal performance or where he's being played. I thought, instead, that he's concerned that we're going to stuff things up and the fans are going to get upset. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Yes, but what if there has been improvement in the midfielders honouring leading players and hitting targets (which is something Lever08 has mentioned)?

 

The forwards rarely lead out to the midfield, or if they do they do so too early so they are trying to mark the ball 50 metres from goal instead of 30.

That’s the issue.

[Deemania since 56 6,610]

On 6/6/2020 at 4:06 PM, Hunt29 said:

I take it from the article that Lever is still being managed after being also managed during the week. Apparently back to his best running wise. Is this a worry that he’s missed last two contact sessions? Anyone know more?

Kid gloves. 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

So we lost?

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

3 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

if we have the majority of those folks in the mids as opposed to viney, oliver, petracca, brayshaw, harmes, langdon, tomlinson, and even jones we are in big trouble

adding langdon and tomlinson plus replacing jones with trac along with harmes going back means our mid make-up is quite different automatically

I'm talking about in the ruck mostly,  the centre-man position,  and the in-siders.  So we would only rotate the occasional young player thru there,  when the situation arises.

Of course,  not all at the same time,  as this would be against the rules,  'wwsw'. ☺️

 

I trend to agree with Dermie,  Re Bennell.  I could imagine Bennell playing off the bench,  and playing across the centre-line.   On reduced minutes,  and building slowly.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

47 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

The forwards rarely lead out to the midfield, or if they do they do so too early so they are trying to mark the ball 50 metres from goal instead of 30.

That’s the issue.

Surely that's mostly confidence,  from having poor ball delivery to them,  from our recent seasons.

[binman 42,751]

7 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Thanks for the reports. Did we still manage to lose? 

No.

But still struggle to kick to a Melbourne player

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Yes, but what if there has been improvement in the midfielders honouring leading players and hitting targets (which is something Lever08 has mentioned)?

A smaller forward line can work: look at Richmond. The key isn't necessarily the height of the forward line but making sure that, whatever forward line we go with, our ball movement suits it.

So, if we're going to have TMac and Weid/Jackson leading up the ground out of the 50, their leads need to be solid, we need to honour those leads, and they need to hold their marks. If that frees up space for Fritsch (who is smaller but plays a marking forward role), Melksham, Petracca and Pickett, then that can work.

My thought on TMac's comments in the video is that we're doing something new/different and it works some times, but not all the time. I didn't, at all, read into his comments that he's frustrated with his personal performance or where he's being played. I thought, instead, that he's concerned that we're going to stuff things up and the fans are going to get

Up to interpretation. I just watched the replay of Rd 1, our mids kicked to leading players, mainly Fritsch, who was outnumbered 2 to 1 the whole day, because of the way we structured up. Commentators mentioned that we only ever had 6-6-6 at centre bounces and then would leave our forwards outnumbered. Our mids are not precise enough by foot to hit up leads on quick transition breaks. That’s why it doesn’t work. Langdon bombs, VIney bombs, Brayshaw bombs. Petracca can hit up, but holds on to the footy for a while and looks to dance defenders. If we don’t play one tall deep, we are giving ourselves very little chance up forward .

Richmonds strength is there slick hands and fast movement. We are nowhere near that. Bennell in would help though.

upset. 

 

[DemonOX 8,791]

I would have Harmes tag Cripps. 
 

IMO Harmes plays his best footy when tagging. 

[640MD 3,363]

10 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

I would have Harmes tag Cripps. 
 

IMO Harmes plays his best footy when tagging. 

I do like this idea. 
we might lose a little bit, but the blues lose big time. Assuming Harmes wins the tagging battle !

and he is smart enough and tough enough to win as a tagget. Sacrificing his game for the club etc etc....

[Demon3 2,541]

1 hour ago, DemonOX said:

I would have Harmes tag Cripps. 
 

IMO Harmes plays his best footy when tagging. 

its the absolute thing we should do. Shut down Cripps and it goes along way to winning, they are so reliant on him. If we let him run free its a very very poor reflection on our coaches.