CHANGES: Rd 02 vs Carlton

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

29 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

harmes has already shown he can play forward and thru the mid -

These positional decisions won't be about just this week, or just this season,  but about Harmes skill-sets,  to help us in the remainder of his career. for years ahead.

We won't be seriously looking at this years premiership,  at this point of this season.   We are still building our list,  and instilling a variety of skills into our key players, of which Harmes is one.

We are building a team that will be a power for years,   and that will mean some sacrificing preferred positions,  to allow others to learn,  their old roles.

Just like Robbie Flower,  all those decades ago, moving from the wing to half back,  and then on ball, and forward.

This is where we are at,  atmo.

 

Jones will not play in a Grand Final,  but I reckon Maxy will.   And May will, IMO.

 - - - - - - - - -

Salem - you've written off Salem very quickly as a Midfielder.  I don't believe Salem has played much in the midfield, since he's been healthy and fit.  We need some class in the centre position.

Petracca is more Bull than class,  and so is Viney,  and also Harmes.   Ruck-rovers all three.

 

We need to find ourselves a Simon Black type.  So I think we should try Salem again,  as we push Harmes back for a season or so.   Brayshaw as well, needs to be given another try in the pivot.

Other than these two, I cannot see where that class will come from,  unless we turn it up from one of our unsighted youngsters.?

Edited May 29, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[Hunt29 293]

My guess is in  - Jones Salem and Weideman. 
 

Out - Spargo Brown and Bedford. 
 

That’s how I think the club will go. I’d probably keep Bedford in for ANB. But he’s a favourite and the coaches rate his pressure. 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

16 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

These positional decisions won't be about just this week, or just this season,  but about Harmes skill-sets,  to help us in the remainder of his career. for years ahead.

We won't be seriously looking at this years premiership,  at this point of this season.   We are still building our list,  and instilling a variety of skills into our key players, of which Harmes is one.

We are building a team that will be a power for years,   and that will mean some sacrificing preferred positions,  to allow others to learn,  their old roles.

Just like Robbie Flower,  all those decades ago, moving from the wing to half back,  and then on ball, and forward.

This is where we are at,  atmo.

 

Jones will not play in a Grand Final,  but I reckon Maxy will.   And May will, IMO.

 - - - - - - - - -

Salem - you've written off Salem very quickly as a Midfielder.  I don't believe Salem has played much in the midfield, since he's been healthy and fit.  We need some class in the centre position.

Petracca is more Bull than class,  and so is Viney,  and also Harmes.   Ruck-rovers all three.

 

We need to find ourselves a Simon Black type.  So I think we should try Salem again,  as we push Harmes back for a season or so.   Brayshaw as well, needs to be given another try in the pivot.

Other than these two, I cannot see where that class will come from,  unless we turn it up from one of our unsighted youngsters.?

Simon Black is one of my favourite players ever. 

We have Jordan coming through he could get to that level.

Oliver is a better handballer Than Black

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

13 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Simon Black is one of my favourite players ever. 

We have Jordan coming through he could get to that level.

Oliver is a better handballer Than Black

It's not the disposal skills alone that make the class, IMO;  its the decision making,  vision,  and the ability to deliver to a teammate, to bring them into the game in a productive way.

Oliver is more quick in mind to get rid of the ball, IMO, but much is a waste,  and many turnovers from them.   He's got a looong way to go,  to get anywhere near Black.

- - -

Jordan, one of those unsighted youngsters.  as is Nietski, Sparrow,  and Spargo to a degree, as he grows size..  could still play some time inside as well,  if he grows strong.  Too small/light,  at the moment.

Edited May 29, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[Wrecker45 3,378]

1 minute ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

It's not the disposal skills alone that make the class, IMO;  its the decision making,  vision,  and the ability to deliver to a teammate, to bring them into the game in a productive way.

Oliver is more quick in mind to get rid of the ball, IMO, but much is a waste,  and many turnovers from them.   He's got a looong way to go,  to get anywhere near Black.

I agree Black is one of the best footballers I have ever seen but Oliver could get there or be better.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 minute ago, Wrecker45 said:

I agree Black is one of the best footballers I have ever seen but Oliver could get there or be better.

coulda woulda shoulda.

Black's been there,  and done that;  his runs are on the board,  and in the books.

 

Our young players of past decades,  have had a habit of getting ahead of themselves,  and we place them too high on pedestals,  because we are largely so desperate for heroes.

Once we have placed them into the limelight,  they're improvement slows way down.

Even Gazza, and Schwarta, Jakovitz, and Farmer, all could have been better then they achieved.  Schwarta became more Pro, imo,  after his injuries.  Jako and Farmer were very inconsistent, and had their heads in the clouds, or up their backside.   Occasionally they really came to play.  Occasionally.

[WERRIDEE 5,518]

1 hour ago, Hunt29 said:

My guess is in  - Jones Salem and Weideman. 
 

Out - Spargo Brown and Bedford. 
 

That’s how I think the club will go. I’d probably keep Bedford in for ANB. But he’s a favourite and the coaches rate his pressure. 

Petty or Bennell must come in for ANB. 2 potential guns that would be wasted as emergencies. If they are not fit then Hannnan gets a go. ANB must be dropped his poor form can not be tolerated. 

[picket fence 17,545]

16 hours ago, Paulo said:

Could bennell play as a deep forward early this year, until he gains enough match fitness to push further up the ground, 

Bennell.   Weid   Kossie

Fritta.      Tmac.      Tracc

Langdon.     Oliver.      Tomlinson

Salem.    Lever.     Harmes

Jetta.    May.      Hibbo

Max.    Brayshaw.     Viney

Smith.    Jones.    Melk.     Jackson

 

Hibberd cooked I reckon and Lockhart to replace, Not sure about Jackson,( yet) Gee if Bennell ramps it up I would be very tempted to play him as well! If Vanders is Fit maybe replace Smith MAYBE! But I do like Smith. RE Neal Bullen backup only! Spargo? Never again, Wagners, only if we have dire injuries! Brown, Cameos only!

Thats IT 

Edited May 29, 2020 by picket fence

[58er 6,573]

14 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

I think there was merit in the idea but with Lockhart's preseason form and solid performance round 1, One of Harmes or Salem should be moved up into the midfield rotation. 

FB: Jetta Omac Hibbard

HB: Salem May Lever 

7th def: Lockhart

Looks like a reasonable defensive structure to go with for now. I'd like to see Harmes playing the defensive/2 way midfielder role again.

In place of whom???

Sparrow has not earnt a place and Petty would need to be very fit as he has not played any pre season games.

( Petty is good potential and it dies look as though any player prev injured will have to still be given opportunities with a fitness or match training Deficit  under their belt.)

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Probably a bit bold but i'd go with 

 

Jetta May Petty 

Salem Lever Harmes

Langdon Petracca Tommlinson

Jones McDonald Melksham 

Fritsch Weideman Pickett 

Gawn Oliver Viney 

Brayshaw, Sparrow, Bedford, Hibberd 

[binman 43,826]

20 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Have to agree with you. We held their key forwards well but what's the point if their small forwards and midfielders are running amok.

The same thing would happen against Collingwood. We'd probably hold Cox and Miocheck but let De Goey, Thomas, Stevenson and Hoskin-Elliott run amok.

It was an extremely poor performance by the club, and as you pointed out, we let the opposition's midfield waltz around us which has been all too common under Goodwin since week 3 of the 2018 finals.

Don't hold the bigs and you don't concede 78 points against the best forward line. You concede 120.

Three bigs down back is a furphy. Lever is not that tall and certainly not that strong and is never going to take a big forward. So that makes it 2.

And May  who is tall and strong plays on bigs, mediums and smalls. And often plays outside the 50 mere arc, leaving only one big, omac, deep.

So may, lever and omac all have to play. If omac got dropped they would still have to bring a big in.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

20 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Have to agree with you. We held their key forwards well but what's the point if their small forwards and midfielders are running amok.

The same thing would happen against Collingwood. We'd probably hold Cox and Miocheck but let De Goey, Thomas, Stevenson and Hoskin-Elliott run amok.

It was an extremely poor performance by the club, and as you pointed out, we let the opposition's midfield waltz around us which has been all too common under Goodwin since week 3 of the 2018 finals.

Yes, too true. I am not convinced on Goodwin but want to know where if anywhere was the ex Saints coachs influence on the West Coast game. He is such an irrelevance i cant even automatically remember his name, oh yes, Richardson.

[DurriePirate 97]

On 5/25/2020 at 9:54 AM, Travy14 said:

 

B:  Jetta May Hibberd

HB:  Salem O. Mac  Lever

? Langdon Oliver Tomlinson

HF:  Melksham Fritsch Petracca

Fwd:  Pickett  T. Mac  Weideman

Mid:  Gawn Brayshaw Viney

Harmes Hore Jones Lockhart (vanders if fit)

 

I think O. Mac is needed for lever to be at his intercepting best.   If the matchup isn't there then he misses out Hore goes in and then a Hunt or Baker comes into the 22 for speed.  

vanders is 100% ready to go, lock him in

[Demon Dude 425]

4 hours ago, binman said:

Don't hold the bigs and you don't concede 78 points against the best forward line. You concede 120.

Three bigs down back is a furphy. Lever is not that tall and certainly not that strong and is never going to take a big forward. So that makes it 2.

And May  who is tall and strong plays on bigs, mediums and smalls. And often plays outside the 50 mere arc, leaving only one big, omac, deep.

So may, lever and omac all have to play. If omac got dropped they would still have to bring a big in.

but it's not written anywhere that that's the structure you have to play, and it's not written anywhere because you don't have to.

May is quick for his size, but he's not quick or agile like a smaller player is and he's not an interceptor either. having him push up the ground is just a waste of time. you should just have May play deepest as FB and Lever at CHB. Lever can play CHB, I've seen him do it before. in 2018 Lever played CHB along with Oscar at FB and we won 8 of the first 11 games before he did his knee. we won 6 in a row once he'd settled into the team and some of those were big wins. 

if you're then worried about a third tall fwd/ruck, you can bring in a someone like Smith who can play on big or small forwards, or play a versatile tall type like Petty on the bench who can play back/ruck/forward so you're not tied down to an inflexible structure of having 2 full back types in the team.

Lever is 195cms, that's taller than May who is actually 193cms. Oscar is 196cms and while a bit heavier than Lever he certainly doesn't play much stronger to my eye. and he's certainly not as quick as Lever or May either.

I mean are we really going to pay Lever and May a fortune and not have them both play as the key defenders? if so then that is absolutely some of the worst planning and recruiting that I've ever seen. what is Lever on, 800K a year? for what, to play as a back pocket, halfback flanker or a loose man in defence? or have all of May, Lever and Oscar together floating around in some sort of quasi zone defence?

I find that just staggering. for what we are paying them Lever and May should definitely be holding down the key positions and not only that, they should be winning them too.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

19 hours ago, M_9 said:

Harmes on Cripps - spotting him 10cm but agree he's our best option. Leaves them to find a match for Oliver.

Doubt Brayshaw will play on Wing. Tomlinson and Langdon brought to the club specifically to release the likes of Gus.
Gus half forward for a while? Can kick goals from 50+.

I'd think Jetta on Betts. Geez, Nev had better improve on round one effort.

He's giving away a bit of height on Cripps but Harmes definitely has Cripps with speed and endurance. it would be brave but Harmes could be used as an attacking option if he picks smart times to run off 

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,945]

Nobody’s mentioned Hunt as a possibility.

Kicked 3 goals the last time we played them including the winner from outside 50.

Seems to have fallen away since about round 19 last year and aside from his debut year of 2016, he can’t put a full season together. A shame as he has much needed pace and a long kick for goal.

 

[DurriePirate 97]

Best 22 round 2

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, HARMES, JONES

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON

HF: VINEY, FRISTCH, VANDERBERG

F: PICKETT, T.MAC, HANNAN

FOLL: GAWN, MELKSHAM, PETRACCA 

IC: HORE, BRAYSHAW, SPARROW, BROWN/BEDFORD (depending on Carltons backs)

EMERG: Take your pick of the rest.

 

Sparrow is ready to go and will be one of our best in the next 18mths.

Hore will finish his career with a few All Australians down back, Super composed and reliable in an undermanned back line last year.

16min Quarters makes it hard to justify OMac, speed is going to be the way for 2020.

Unlucky Omissions: Petty - Showed some dash and has a big ticker, Lockhart - looks like a footballer all round natural, Baker - will develop on a wing, Weideman - Who stays out to keep him in? Browns got him if Weid isnt crashing packs doing some damage to the smaller bodies around him.

 

 

[loges 6,767]

32 minutes ago, DurriePirate said:

Best 22 round 2

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, HARMES, JONES

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON

HF: VINEY, FRISTCH, VANDERBERG

F: PICKETT, T.MAC, HANNAN

FOLL: GAWN, MELKSHAM, PETRACCA 

IC: HORE, BRAYSHAW, SPARROW, BROWN/BEDFORD (depending on Carltons backs)

EMERG: Take your pick of the rest.

 

Sparrow is ready to go and will be one of our best in the next 18mths.

Hore will finish his career with a few All Australians down back, Super composed and reliable in an undermanned back line last year.

16min Quarters makes it hard to justify OMac, speed is going to be the way for 2020.

Unlucky Omissions: Petty - Showed some dash and has a big ticker, Lockhart - looks like a footballer all round natural, Baker - will develop on a wing, Weideman - Who stays out to keep him in? Browns got him if Weid isnt crashing packs doing some damage to the smaller bodies around him.

 

 

Everyone spruiking  Weid in for Brown is not really exciting me.

[Adam The God 30,430]

I don't want to be too negative here, but I haven't posted for a while, because to be honest, after how we performed in Round 1 off the back of 2019, I've been quite happy to see no football for a while.

However, I think we can put out one of the best 'on paper sides' in the competition, certainly top 8 worthy. But where the negativity comes in for me is that not only does our talent drop away steeply after the best 22 (ie very little good depth), our coach who is ironically all about systems, hasn't fixed our systems that could enable plodders to be plug and plays in a well-oiled system.

Without a decent system, it doesn't really matter how many good individual players we may have out there.

I reckon Goodwin's goose is cooked unfortunately.

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

9 minutes ago, A F said:

I don't want to be too negative here, but I haven't posted for a while, because to be honest, after how we performed in Round 1 off the back of 2019, I've been quite happy to see no football for a while.

However, I think we can put out one of the best 'on paper sides' in the competition, certainly top 8 worthy. But where the negativity comes in for me is that not only does our talent drop away steeply after the best 22 (ie very little good depth), our coach who is ironically all about systems, hasn't fixed our systems that could enable plodders to be plug and plays in a well-oiled system.

Without a decent system, it doesn't really matter how many good individual players we may have out there.

I reckon Goodwin's goose is cooked unfortunately.

You echo the thoughts of many of us AF. The positive is that we now have four winnable games. Goodwin has backed his system.If we don't win three of those games the season is almost over.

[Paulo 285]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Nobody’s mentioned Hunt as a possibility.

Kicked 3 goals the last time we played them including the winner from outside 50.

Seems to have fallen away since about round 19 last year and aside from his debut year of 2016, he can’t put a full season together. A shame as he has much needed pace and a long kick for goal.

 

Had a big year when we just missed the finals, I think in his second year, after that season I thought he had just as much talent as our other youngsters, at his best he is easily best22, he seems like he is the sort of player that needs a couple of slaps around the chops before a game to fire him up, when he plays with that fire and belief he is very good.

I really hope he gets back to playing the way he did that year, as he could be that missing link we need.

I hope Goodwin puts a bit of time into him and really get in his ear and fires him up a bit

Maybe throw him on a Dangerfield a Kelly or a trealor as a run with every now and then

 

[Docs Demons 1,792]

44 minutes ago, Paulo said:

Had a big year when we just missed the finals, I think in his second year, after that season I thought he had just as much talent as our other youngsters, at his best he is easily best22, he seems like he is the sort of player that needs a couple of slaps around the chops before a game to fire him up, when he plays with that fire and belief he is very good.

I really hope he gets back to playing the way he did that year, as he could be that missing link we need.

I hope Goodwin puts a bit of time into him and really get in his ear and fires him up a bit

Maybe throw him on a Dangerfield a Kelly or a trealor as a run with every now and then

 

Not fussed on who gets a game. Just want players that are prepared to put in 110% and the midfield guys to finally realise you HAVE to run both ways. Nearly all our Mids just like to win the ball in middle/forward and are not prepared to gut run back to assist defence. Reason why WC Mids kicked goals and ours didn't. Our boys just trot along in middle of ground and play with no accountability. Look at some past footage and 3 or 4 of our players trotting around centre all by themselves when oppo have the ball. This is not good enough.

[BenF 56]

We need skill in the team that's all there is to it. Forget anything else.

[layzie 34,014]

1 minute ago, BenF said:

We need skill in the team that's all there is to it. Forget anything 

We need guys who are prepared to run both ways.

[John Demonic 5,855]

4 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

You echo the thoughts of many of us AF. The positive is that we now have four winnable games. Goodwin has backed his system.If we don't win three of those games the season is almost over.

We'd have to return to a consistent patch of form not seen since r22-SF 2018. I'm not getting any hope or expectation up in that regard. Fully expect 2/2 or 1/3. And 0/4 is far more likely than 4/4

Edited May 30, 2020 by John Demonic