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44 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

yep, no doubt. And fingers crossed Tmac can get back to something like his best. Question in my mind is  will Jackson be up for being the second fwd at the start of 2020? or if not,  be at least fighting for that spot with the Weid. Im not sure if we can play all three, but if LJ's mobility is being likened to a midfielder then maybe. Will be eagerly awaiting what LJ and Kozzie look like at AFL level. 

If Jackson can stay in contests (due to his lack of bulk), we can absolutely play him alongside Weideman and Tom.

My concern would be more around Weideman and although he is quite good below his knees for a big fella, his pace is not great. This means, to me, he remains easy to rebound against.

Meanwhile, Jackson doesn't appear to be as easy to rebound against. We've seen his agility, so it's almost like playing a zippy small or mid sized player. It's just that he happens to be 200cm. 

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1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

Take out Walker who was a category B rookie for JKH and you have it right. I rated it as an A+ We recruited a tall forward\ruck, a small forward and a running half back. Can't complain about that.

Totally forgot about JKH. Good point well made.

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Our recruitment team were so deliberate in  determining best available fit against our needs and then how to navigate improving our position in the draft to achieve this without forgoing pick 3 that we will never see a priority pick again, no matter how badly the team play.

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Many of the criticisms of the choices made here demonstrate why a dual Brownlow player like Nat Fyfe falls through to pick 20. Too skinny,  too small to be a KP player, too tall to be a mid etc. etc. People are too often focused on what these kids *can't* do, rather than what they can, especially when what's missing are things that can be worked on or will come with time/training/experience.

Really pleased with the selections, even Pickett. Mongrel + skills + intensity at the ball/carrier. The rest will come. Lack of disposals? The great man himself, Liam Jurrah NEVER had a 20 disposal game, and across his career averaged around 11 disposals a game.

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20 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

There is no reason Freo would pick Young ahead of Serong on draft night if they rated Serong higher. They picked in the order they rated and Young was gone at 7.

Freo couldn't gift us Young in some deal without losing their 2nd pick because Carlton bid Henry at 9.  Your plan looks like this:

You're clutching at wet straw.  

I was going to argue the point and then decided against it.

But I'm still really curious to know what the bolded is meant to mean? 

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23 hours ago, trac5665 said:

Our list needs that everyone on here seemed to agree on across last offseason and this years were a ruckman/forward, skilful quick small forward, two wingman and a future hibberd replacement. We just filled these positions either in the first two rounds of the draft or through quality free agents. Not just the draft but this whole offseason has to be an 'A'. Can understand why people wouldn't rate last years trade/draft highly. But this year we did very good.

Agree on the fact we filled needs well.

To your list I'd add:

An elite kick - in my opinion our greatest need, so thrilled to read how highly River's kick is.

Some x factor - every club needs a spark plug and x factor player. Creates excitement  pumps up fans and teammates alike and most important of all such players (e.g. Wonnna, jeffy, the wiz, jurrah, davey - remarkably all Aboriginal) can win games wirh flashes of brilliance. In kozzy we have that player and if benell gets fit we have anorher.

A sense we might have one our of the box - there is nothing more exciting than the thought of drafting an out and out future champion. Hogan footed that bill for me and oliver too, but you have to go back to watts (who didn't make it to that level), neita (ditto) and the ox. It is clear they think jackson can get to the rarefied level of champion.

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6 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree on the fact we filled needs well.

.............

 

. It is clear they think can Jackson get to the rarefied level of champion.

Yes it is going to be fun watching the progress of Jackson. May turn out to be a bust, a good average player or an out and out champion. Who knows but least he has the all the physical attributes to allow us to believe he could be something special. 

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Sounds like Rivers is a very similar player to Young.  Young would need to be a hell of a lot better than Rivers to justify picking him over Jackson.

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On 11/30/2019 at 11:06 AM, Fifty-5 said:

Sounds like Rivers is a very similar player to Young.  Young would need to be a hell of a lot better than Rivers to justify picking him over Jackson.

And let’s face it, we couldn’t really draft both Young and Jackson because those names are synonymous with the hotel at the gateway to Melbourne known in the past for its bar room, loose women and the heavy imbibing of alcohol in the days of the six o’clock swill. The very suggestion of Y & J together at the same club would therefore contradict the essence of the club’s no [censored] policy - hence Young had to be sent across the Nullarbor and in return, we get a fine upstanding quality person in Rivers, a relative of a former Victorian Supreme Court Judge.

My informants from the West tell me that he’s a very solid young lad who can definitely play football and, but for his illness over the summer which affected his preparation and delayed his start to the season, he might have been in top ten draft contention. As it was, he did very well to gain State selection at the National Carnival and make All-Australian. He won’t just be a half back flanker either - I’m told that he might end up as a very damaging midfielder.

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Our draft was played down due to the perceived idea of taking a player at 3 that we didn’t need and a small forward at 12 that we need but could have got later. I think it’s universally agreed we did well with Rivers at 32. 
Jackson at 3 wasn’t a reach. At least a handful of other recruiters would have taken him at 3. Taylor doesn’t think he is only a ruck and has the agility to play key forward or even as a mid. Interestingly Twomey said he’s more advanced than Grundy at the same age.
Pickett at 12 I did think may have been a reach. However I feel he wouldn’t have likely got to another pick had we traded. Word was hawks and port were keen and possibly dogs. There actually wasn’t another player like him in the draft. Weightman is a very good small forward but doesn’t have the pressure Pickett does.
The notion you can get players as rucks through trading and small forwards later in the draft and as rookies is fine. But why not take a chance on these guys who we have right in front of us. Plus Jackson has massive scope to improve.

I’d give us a B. I think we’ve done well. But I understand that we may have reached on Pickett and gone Young over Jackson. Which I’d have been fine with to. But I’m happy with how it panned our. 
The trade with Freo was very savvy to help us land Rivers. I like the kid reckon he’s going to be at least a very good player. 

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If Jackson,Pickett and Langdon make an immediate impact , I would say that our draft picks are first class. I am not sure we still have the talent to make the 8 but we will go close. I am not having high expectations. I cannot understand why we kept Jones at 300 k plus for next year. Clarkson would have cut him for sure. No other team was "head hunting" when he was at the end of his contract.

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I like that we recruited X factor. We desperately needed some.

We probably didn’t go with the percentage plays (Young and Weightman), but I’m pleased.

Pickett is a human cannonball. I can’t wait to see him in our forward line each week. It’ll be fun to watch.

Put simply, picking Jackson and Pickett has a certain feel good factor to it.

We should all get around it.

 

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Drafts can't truly be rated for 5-10 years, but if we base it on who we targeted it has to be an A+.

We wanted the first two we picked and ensured we got them and Rivers was universally expected to be gone by our third pick. 

Time will tell if our assessments of all concerned were accurate - in part or fully. 

There wouldn't have been too many clubs leave the draft that got their exact wishlist.  We probably did (unless they were hoping for someone other than Rivers who slid).

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42 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I like that we recruited X factor. We desperately needed some.

We probably didn’t go with the percentage plays (Young and Weightman), but I’m pleased.

Pickett is a human cannonball. I can’t wait to see him in our forward line each week. It’ll be fun to watch.

Put simply, picking Jackson and Pickett has a certain feel good factor to it.

We should all get around it.

 

I agree RB ... to the point where I might fly to the G just to watch Jacko and Kossie play without being only focussed on whether we can win... these two could become “stars” ... they better get a good number each for kids to put on their back... and rivers can play a role.. 

and I reckon Taylor gets an A

 

Edited by grey wolf
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3 hours ago, chook fowler said:

The worst part of the draft was having to watch that boof head Gil McLachlan - he has the personality of a dead cat.

That is highly offensive ...... to dead cats chook.

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On 11/29/2019 at 6:43 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

I have it an A.

Recruiting Rivers who I rated a top 25 pick was a bonus. 

The beauty about this draft compared to last year is all 3 are all ready to go and could all play round 1. We knew last year that the likes of Bedford, Jordon and Neita were all going to be playing VFL all year for development.

The way I look at the Jackson pick is that we are bring him in as a key forward more then anything. Watching his highlights the way he flies and clunks his marks reminds me a lot of Tom Lynch from Richmond. A 200cm key forward alongside Weideman and McDonald will give our forward line a whole new dynamic. Jackson coming in allows McDonald to play that 3rd roaming tall which he is best suited to.

I expect Weideman to fill out more and play the stay at home forward alongside Jackson.

Smart and screwed recruitment by Jason Taylor and his team.

Agree Dazzle with the compromised draft next season and those taken last year having a year into them I'm really happy we managed to get 3 players all competitors ready to go. I really rated Sharp and Rivers and to turn pick 8 into the player we were likely to take and Rivers is fantastic and really shrewd work by the list management team.

I've no doubt we'll start looking at a late diamond with hardness and the competitive edge to take next year

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I've given us a B- for the draft.  While I didn't want us to go that direction, I accept that Jackson is a legitimate pick at three, so can't fault that one.  Rivers was by all reports a bit of a steal, so big points for that.  I have to take points off for Pickett though.  At that pick we had access to other much better-credentialed players (Kemp) and went in with blinkers on intending to target only one player. 

Looking at the draft/trade period as a whole I think we're an easy A+.  The club chased three players through trade and FA and landed them all, then traded themselves into a position to get the two young talents they had targeted and picked them both up with the picks they brought in specifically for that purpose as well as picking up a bonus AA HB.  Taken as a whole it was a flawlessly executed plan that has so far been 100% successful. 

Further to that, despite my repeated insistence that we'd be better off with Young and Kemp, I can't fault them on the choices they've made given that I was also very vocal in pointing out our habit of drafting safe players with great character and leadership but no x-factor or ability to turn games on their own.  We've certainly smashed that image this year.  Jackson, Pickett and Bennell are all in the risky but with a massive reward if they come off category.  If all three come off we'll be in for some very interesting times. 

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Buckenara isn’t impressed.

AFL draft 2019: Recruiter Gary Buckenara analyses every club’s draft haul

Buckenara says: Luke Jackson at pick No.3 is a risk. While he was the best ruckman in the draft, I had him rated as the 18th-best player because at 199cm he’s undersized for a ruckman at AFL level and I’ve got concerns over his ability to play as a marking forward. I think he’ll be a bit lost in that role.

He’s still raw but there’s no doubting his competitiveness and that he’ll work hard to develop his craft to become a very good AFL player, but he’ll need to improve his marking if he’s going to play forward and ruck. Hopefully he can grow a bit more to get over 200cm and be a better size for an AFL-level ruckman.

Kysaiah Pickett was a bolter at pick 12 but the Demons are desperate for some excitement in the forward line he brings that as well as physicality. I think he’ll be given opportunities at AFL level in 2020. He has Liam Ryan traits.

Buckenara’s verdict: It’s boom or bust on Jackson but they have addressed list needs.
 

Edited by Elwood 3184

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37 minutes ago, Elwood 3184 said:

Buckenara isn’t impressed.

AFL draft 2019: Recruiter Gary Buckenara analyses every club’s draft haul

Buckenara says: Luke Jackson at pick No.3 is a risk. While he was the best ruckman in the draft, I had him rated as the 18th-best player because at 199cm he’s undersized for a ruckman at AFL level and I’ve got concerns over his ability to play as a marking forward. I think he’ll be a bit lost in that role.

He’s still raw but there’s no doubting his competitiveness and that he’ll work hard to develop his craft to become a very good AFL player, but he’ll need to improve his marking if he’s going to play forward and ruck. Hopefully he can grow a bit more to get over 200cm and be a better size for an AFL-level ruckman.

Kysaiah Pickett was a bolter at pick 12 but the Demons are desperate for some excitement in the forward line he brings that as well as physicality. I think he’ll be given opportunities at AFL level in 2020. He has Liam Ryan traits.

Buckenara’s verdict: It’s boom or bust on Jackson but they have addressed list needs.
 

Buckenara does what Buckenara does. That’s cool. His opinion is as worthwhile as mine :)

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40 minutes ago, Elwood 3184 said:

Buckenara isn’t impressed.

AFL draft 2019: Recruiter Gary Buckenara analyses every club’s draft haul

Buckenara says: Luke Jackson at pick No.3 is a risk. While he was the best ruckman in the draft, I had him rated as the 18th-best player because at 199cm he’s undersized for a ruckman at AFL level and I’ve got concerns over his ability to play as a marking forward. I think he’ll be a bit lost in that role.

He’s still raw but there’s no doubting his competitiveness and that he’ll work hard to develop his craft to become a very good AFL player, but he’ll need to improve his marking if he’s going to play forward and ruck. Hopefully he can grow a bit more to get over 200cm and be a better size for an AFL-level ruckman.

Kysaiah Pickett was a bolter at pick 12 but the Demons are desperate for some excitement in the forward line he brings that as well as physicality. I think he’ll be given opportunities at AFL level in 2020. He has Liam Ryan traits.

Buckenara’s verdict: It’s boom or bust on Jackson but they have addressed list needs.
 

 

Looks pretty accurate.

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I know that times change but here’s a pen pic on a young ruckman from WA from Inside Football in the lead up to the 2008 National Draft:-

“NICHOLAS NAITANUI - ruckman, Swan Districts, WA
DOB: 4/5/90 Ht: 197cm Wt: 95kg

"Nicholas is just a freak. He's not a natural footballer but on pure athletic ability he is in a class of his own. Has great closing speed, is a great jump and is starting to learn more about winning the ball around the ground but there is plenty to come. Needs to work on his foot skills as they still, have a way to go but his improvement has been pretty sharp over the last two years. He's certainly not a natural footballer and you'd expect whichever club takes him to spend a lot of time with him developing his decision making, but we think he could play some AFL footy next year, although probably not a whole season. We juggled things around with him later in the year and played him in some key positions, including full back, and he did it very effectively. There is really no one like him and I don't think anyone has seen anything like him. Athletically he's one of the best players ever to come through this club. Long term he'll probably be a ruckman but that's not to say a club couldn't develop another string to his bow because he has all the tools to work with." - Swan Districts football manager Matt Peach. WA rep 2007/2008. All Australian 2007/08. From Midvale JFC”

Naitanui was 197cm tall when drafted by the Eagles at #2 and now stands at 201cm, a mere centimetre shorter than Brodie Gundy. 

Luke Jackson was 196cm earlier this season and has been variously reported in the media in the past week as being 199cm or 200cm. Either way, I think Buckenara might be overstating things when he claims Jackson is “undersized”.

POST SCRIPT 

This article from 1 April, 2019 by Chris Doerre (Knightmare) has Jackson at 196cm ~ AFL Draft Power Rankings: Giants academy prospect holds off chargers from Oakleigh.

 I’m not sure whether Bucky’s seen Jackson recently but if he’s grown to 199/200cm in the interim, there’s a reasonable chance he’ll end up at 201/2002cm plus.

 

D9BFAD0B-7E76-46AA-9AA5-9DD7B103DA37.jpeg

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Buckenara on Howe moving to Collingwood in a forward role:

It seems that's the role Collingwood want for him and the role he plays best. Time will tell whether or not he's as good as Gunston or Breust but it seems he's got a definite job description at the Pies

Any casual observer watching Melbourne knew Howe was much better as a defender than a forward, but not Buckenara.

On the 2016 draft - Buckenara thought Taranto was taken too early at pick 2 and he had him rated at 10.  Taranto is currently either the best or second best from that draft and vindicated the GWS selection.

In June 2016 Buckenara said that Richmond's and Collingwood's lists were bother ''overrated''.  

''Similar to Collingwood, they've got too many back-end, depth players and maybe they've overranked themselves as a club as well.''

Richmond have since won two flags and Collingwood were a kick off winning one and have solidified themselves as a top 4 team.

It's up to you how much stock you put in this blokes assessments.  I put very little in them at all.

 

 

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Buckenara is a fool who the HS use for clickbait. Ignore everything he says. 

Knightmare, while he does get through a power of vision, is a defensive and overly elaborate shut-in who qualifies every assessment of players with caveats, ifs and buts. His descriptions published on ESPN are borderline embarrassing as he seems incapable of describing any player with single adjectives and instead lists a series of sentences as 'strengths or weaknesses': 'running through contests without losing feet, contested winning abilities in confined spaces'...he's laughable.

Good on him for turning a clear passion into some pocket money but if he was any good he'd be working in clubland. 

It is very easy to publish rankings and cover yourself against every outcome, takes a lot more balls to make a decision and pick a player as a recruiter. 

This is without mentioning that neither of these guys have access to interviews or have met the prospects. All players at the elite u18 level have talent; the mentality and discipline to succeed is in my opinion the biggest factor. Goodwin described as much on SEN last week. 

Rating the draft immediately after based on rankings you've informed with highlight videos is as useless an exercise as I can imagine. 

I give us an A+

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10 hours ago, Skuit said:

Sure. To bend over backwards is go to extra lengths to accommodate someone. 

We could have had Young by making Freo go to extra lengths to accommodate us in their desire for Henry. 

There is no evidence that the phrase is a metaphor for an act of sexual violence, even though it may be used in a sexual context. 

Should I also be careful is saying that Freo wanted Henry 'on top'? 

Anyway, as I mentioned, Go Dees! 

You're usually a good poster well worth reading, but your train is off the tracks in this thread.

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