On 28/11/2019 at 21:51, one_demon said:

If those three players are duds, then obviously we lose.  If they end up being good players they'll probably go home to Perth.

Thirteen of the first 15 players selected in the draft are going interstate to play. Obviously clubs don't rate the "go home factor" as much  as you do.

Poita who does  win premierships then?

If not Ruckmen or small forwards who?

Wingers ? Mids ? Interchange ? Selectors ? Coaches ?

Seriously  it's team of all Players and off field paid and unpaid people if the Club.

The players we have recruited in the draft, trade and now PSD and Supplementary in my mind make us about 5 pieces nearer the puzzle fir an ideal team.

With injured and underdone personnel plus developing 2018 recruits at least 2 or 3 more regulars should be added to our best 22.

IMO we could have up to 8/10 new faces at the end of season ( and we need at least 6) if we are to progress as a club plus have depth for the hard times.

We have cut our cloth nearly for 2020 let's make the best of it and get back to winning ways.0

  On 28/11/2019 at 22:12, Lucifer's Hero said:

I thought we did very well.  Happy with our 3 picks.  We will be a much better balanced team and the quality of our starting 22 will be quite different by end of this year.

Its worth noting that some heavy live-pick trading was done with picks in the 20's and very good deals struck (and I'm filthy on Geelong getting GCS's 2020 pick #11 and #64 for their #27).

We couldn't play at that table as we had no picks in the 20's (or able to use 2020 pick of any value to package up).  We always knew pick 28 would slide to the low 30's because of the Academy and F/S players before then.

It shows the need to keep some early second round picks because once round 1 is over teams want to get their fave player that slid down the order, ala Lions and GCS and they will pay up.  Some canny plays went down in the second round.

We may have snookered ourselves a little bit by swapping picks too early in the trade, pre draft periods.  Not sure we gained full value from them.  We will learn from it. 

Port traded a future first for pick 16.

Gold Coast a future pick 11 for 27.

Yes it cost us future flexibility but trading early for pick 8 was a far better move that I imagined. 

I think it was better to get that pick 8 in our hands and go from there than keep a low 20’s pick and go the other way. 

I rated the draft an A because I think it's time we were a bit "on the edge" and took a risk about our selections instead of selecting all midfielders (all of whom "play like Cripps" when most probably won't).

But I don't see how you can fully rate a draft until a few years down the track. The day after the draft it's still just based on hope. Go back to stories about "re-rating the (insert year here) draft" and see how differently things turned out when players actually had a career.

 

I believe that the recruiting of these players we have some potential A grade players and if these players reach their potential then the MFC  will in 2 to 4 years think JT recruited well.

JT put is nuts on the line with Jackson and Pickett but thats what he is paid for, if it does not workout he wont be a recruiter for much longer.

  On 28/11/2019 at 22:24, DeeSpencer said:

Port traded a future first for pick 16.

Gold Coast a future pick 11 for 27.

Yes it cost us future flexibility but trading early for pick 8 was a far better move that I imagined. 

I think it was better to get that pick 8 in our hands and go from there than keep a low 20’s pick and go the other way. 

I wasn't specifically talking about trading in pick #8 or trading of 2020 first picks.  I was talking about not having picks in the 20's. 

If anything it was the swap out of #8 that it may have been smarter to keep it till draft night or do a deal that gave us high first/low second round picks.

Lots of deals were done and not sure the value of cherry picking a few.  Lots of 2020 first round picks were traded but most clubs left themselves with flexibility. 

Port's trade was to protect their father/son draft position but they kept picks to live-swap with.  The GCS was a live-pick trade and is exactly the type of trade we couldn't participate in because we had cashed our chips.

I have little doubt we tried to do some live-pick trades but we lacked the right currency.  

Edited November 28, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

JT has put his balls on the line. Fairly risky selections. But I like how the club backed him in and he could be seen as a genius in a few years

Young and Serong would have been nice though!

We went in with a plan, and got what we wanted. That's an A.

How these kids turn out is anyone's guess, but we've targeted what we think we need to go the next step (drafting and trading), and are backing ourselves to be up there next year.

I like it. Big ballsy moves aren't the thing I really associate us with. 

Now if only the footy gods smile on us.

I have it an A.

Recruiting Rivers who I rated a top 25 pick was a bonus. 

The beauty about this draft compared to last year is all 3 are all ready to go and could all play round 1. We knew last year that the likes of Bedford, Jordon and Neita were all going to be playing VFL all year for development.

The way I look at the Jackson pick is that we are bring him in as a key forward more then anything. Watching his highlights the way he flies and clunks his marks reminds me a lot of Tom Lynch from Richmond. A 200cm key forward alongside Weideman and McDonald will give our forward line a whole new dynamic. Jackson coming in allows McDonald to play that 3rd roaming tall which he is best suited to.

I expect Weideman to fill out more and play the stay at home forward alongside Jackson.

Smart and screwed recruitment by Jason Taylor and his team.

  On 28/11/2019 at 21:04, Salems Lot said:

But in a broader sense:
Ins                                 Outs

Tomlinson                   Frost

Langdon                      Stretch

Jackson                      Garlett 

Pickett                        Walker

Rivers                          Lewis

Bennell                       Maynard

Brown                         Smith

 

 

On paper, most of those are upgrades

Edited November 28, 20195 yr by one_demon

Potentially the three picks could be bonzer additions. Jackson has obvious talent, Pickett has chutzpah and x factor and Rivers reminds me of Brett Lovett - no praise can be higher from me regarding the latter.

 

We've made some risky calls but as i mentioned in another thread;

Watching us last year it was clear we needed the following;

• Outside run
• Tall Forward option
• Small Forward

So far we've brought in Tomlinson, Langdon, Jackson, Pickett and potentially Brown and Bennell. 

 

Sokol an option if they don't go Brown. 

River seems highly rated with his distribution too.

 

Time will tell and there'll always be draft hindsight discussions but we've gone after areas we're deficient rather than potentially best players available. As stated above a lot of the additions are upgrades and we also get to see Dunkley/Lockhart with a full AFL pre-season. We got the players we wanted (sans elliot) so for that it was a good trade period now we just need to get behind them and understand there'll be ups and downs with their development. 

 

 

I find it pointless to give ourselves a rating at this early stage. It’s like marking exam papers with all the questions unanswered. Overal it looks like a promising mix of draftees and trades that appears to fill holes on our list. Some risk but also no brainer choices also. 

  On 28/11/2019 at 22:33, Lucifer's Hero said:

I wasn't specifically talking about trading in pick #8 or trading of 2020 first picks.  I was talking about not having picks in the 20's. 

If anything it was the swap out of #8 that it may have been smarter to keep it till draft night or do a deal that gave us high first/low second round picks.

Lots of deals were done and not sure the value of cherry picking a few.  Lots of 2020 first round picks were traded but most clubs left themselves with flexibility. 

Port's trade was to protect their father/son draft position but they kept picks to live-swap with.  The GCS was a live-pick trade and is exactly the type of trade we couldn't participate in because we had cashed our chips.

I have little doubt we tried to do some live-pick trades but we lacked the right currency.  

The entire reason we didn't have a pick in the 20's was because we structured the Langdon and Frost trades to maintain future picks in the 2-5th rounds allowing us to trade our first.

Carlton live traded on the night to move back from what was pick 9 to get Kemp and a pick in the 20's. We clearly wanted to keep our first pick ahead of the Bulldogs and other teams in that range to get our man. 

Trading up becomes more and more expensive on trade night when teams have the lure of the players sitting right in front of them that's for sure. And given the thing we wanted to do more than anything was trade up and get a small forward the best thing to do was to do it early. 

I certainly think we should target those early 20's picks in the future and get value with trade back deals, but priority number 1 this year was trading up and we paid a lot less for a lot more than the other clubs that did it.

Overall pretty happy and I think we have significant upside in both Jackson and Pickett - hopefully at least one of those 2 can have a meaningful impact quickly (my money is on Pickett)

Not overly convinced with the Rivers decision I was very keen for us getting Jeremy Sharp but it was never going to happen with GC being so keen 

Trying to work out what the recruiting of Jackson means for the Weid and how much faith the club has in him to deliver consistently - I suspect there are lingering doubts

  On 28/11/2019 at 22:43, dazzledavey36 said:

I have it an A.

Recruiting Rivers who I rated a top 25 pick was a bonus. 

The beauty about this draft compared to last year is all 3 are all ready to go and could all play round 1. We knew last year that the likes of Bedford, Jordon and Neita were all going to be playing VFL all year for development.

The way I look at the Jackson pick is that we are bring him in as a key forward more then anything. Watching his highlights the way he flies and clunks his marks reminds me a lot of Tom Lynch from Richmond. A 200cm key forward alongside Weideman and McDonald will give our forward line a whole new dynamic. Jackson coming in allows McDonald to play that 3rd roaming tall which he is best suited to.

I expect Weideman to fill out more and play the stay at home forward alongside Jackson.

Smart and screwed recruitment by Jason Taylor and his team.

I'll assume you meant "shrewd", otherwise I'm dreadfully confused.

  On 28/11/2019 at 20:10, John Demonic said:

Also Young was 7, so we've picked up Pickett instead of Serong, not Young afaik

 

  On 28/11/2019 at 20:30, Fifty-5 said:

Young went at 7 to Freo. 7 is before 8.

It's likely we knew this was going to happen, next we wanted Pickett, knew he'd be there at 10 and got Rivers for "free".

Your post makes no sense.

Just to clarify - we'll never know whether Freo rated or if forced would have taken Young or Serong in the order they did.  

My suggestion is that we could have had Young by bending over Freo when we knew for certain they wanted Henry on top. 

The threat of a bid on Henry at 8 (generally rated above Pickett) might have got us a handshake agreement on Young.

Otherwise, holding onto 8 pre-draft would have at least caused some instability for Freo with others looking to trade up.

 

  On 28/11/2019 at 23:39, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'll assume you meant "shrewd", otherwise I'm dreadfully confused.

Shrewd.. 

*auto correct 

  On 28/11/2019 at 23:58, dazzledavey36 said:

Shrewd.. 

*auto correct 

Predictive text and auto-correct are quite good at spelling errors...but hopeless on analysing and interpreting meaning. I sometimes wonder whether they are worth it.

  On 28/11/2019 at 20:49, buck_nekkid said:

I rated it ‘A’:

we got who we wanted with our picks 1 and 2

We got a slider who we rated higher with our pick 3

we were shrewd in moving resources around, from next year to this year, and from 8 to 10 plus 28.

we didn’t get sucked in, or bullied into a bad deal.

we got needs met that dovetailed with the trade period, and the 2 train with players.

cant know how good they will be, but I rate the process and outcome highly.

Summed up beautifully, precisely what i was going to say. i just went one down to A- because we didn't have first pick.

MELBOURNE

Players drafted:

Luke Jackson (3), Kysaiah Kropinyeri-Pickett (12), Trent Rivers (32)

Mick’s take:

Luke Jackson, fantastic. He was worth Pick 3 every day of the week. I know there was debate around the ruckman … I think Luke’s going to be an outstanding player. He’s your modern day Nic Naitanui-type. Obviously Kozzy Kropinyeri-Pickett … they moved up, Melbourne, to acquire him. They wanted him, they’ve got him through the door, that elusive small forward. Trent Rivers, I’d like to mention, is one of the most elite kicks in the draft. He’ll be a half back for a little while, but I think he can also fit into the midfield at some stage.

  On 28/11/2019 at 22:20, mauriesy said:

Thirteen of the first 15 players selected in the draft are going interstate to play. Obviously clubs don't rate the "go home factor" as much  as you do.

That's true. Just seems like the go home factor is stronger with the Western Australian boys and I'm a bit concerned as we have just recruited three of them.

I think you have to say our recruiting team is doing a great job. They are open, easy to deal with, give a little here get a little there, innovative, occasionally smart and ahead of the curve and ultimately get who they want.

You set out your plan, you look at what you have to sell in terms of picks and players and you go after what you want. By and large we get the job done. Sometimes we give away more on the surface (a la Hogan) but we as supporters dont always know the facts behind the trades. We generally end up in a better position than before we started. 

Other clubs deal with us because we don't play games, are genuine and commercial.

Compare that the Dumbdoro at Essendon* who would drive me insane as a supporter.

Whether we pick the right players is another question that will play out over a few years but I think you have to give the recruiting guys a high mark for achieving what they set out to do.

 

 

 

* check this out 

Hawthorn also selected former Essendon swingman Michael Hartley in the pre-season draft after the Bombers refused to delist him. The 26-year-old had a one-year offer from Essendon on the table but delisted himself to join the Hawks.

What a goose Dumbdoro is

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 20195 yr by jnrmac

Our list needs that everyone on here seemed to agree on across last offseason and this years were a ruckman/forward, skilful quick small forward, two wingman and a future hibberd replacement. We just filled these positions either in the first two rounds of the draft or through quality free agents. Not just the draft but this whole offseason has to be an 'A'. Can understand why people wouldn't rate last years trade/draft highly. But this year we did very good.

Ask Blake Acres who was from WA but was shipped out because the Saints wanted Brad Hill and Burton from the Hawks when they wanted Chad Wingard. The players traded did not ask to go home.