Forwards coach

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

26 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Even though our forward line was a rabble last year, I reckon the thing that hurt us most early on was T Mac’s inexplicable loss of confidence and form.

Even though our forward 50 entries were generally poor, there were enough in each game for us to be more competitive on the scoreboard than we were. 

T Mac was clunking everything in 2018 - it was ridiculous. And within one pre-season, he turned into a player who couldn’t get near it.

This really hurt us. Stating the obvious here, but we really need him to recapture his 2018 form (irrespective of who the forward line coach is).

 

Just my stab at it....

No Hogan meant T-Mac was more often getting the opp's number 1 defender.  Weid had a shocker and also out at some point with injury so no No.3 tall available.  There is no No.2 at this point unless Weid steps up to fulfill the Coaches' faith in 2020.  Alot is riding on this one.  If it fails i reckon we will struggle up forward again.

T-Mac had a great 2018 coming off a complete role reversal vs 2017 and was probably a bit of a surprise packet for many coaches/clubs.  No doubt they worked him over more thoroughly in prep for this season and he probably suffered from 2nd year blues as a result plus having to deal with the opp's No.1 and some terrible forward entries, effectively like a brand new very good rookie if you like in terms of 2nd year blues.

2020 should see a big improvement, particularly if we can get better organised and creat a more open forward line for the likes of T-Mac, Weid and Melk to work in.

Will hopefully allow T-Mac and Weid to run separate patterns more effectively (doubling back more often in the case of Weid in particular, see work rate) so they aren't both going up in the same contest as often as we've witnessed in the past.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[CBDees 3,167]

18 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Just my stab at it....

No Hogan meant T-Mac was more often getting the opp's number 1 defender.  Weid had a shocker and also out at some point with injury so no No.3 tall available.  There is no No.2 at this point unless Weid steps up to fulfill the Coaches' faith in 2020.  Alot is riding on this one.  If it fails i reckon we will struggle up forward again.

T-Mac had a great 2018 coming off a complete role reversal vs 2017 and was probably a bit of a surprise packet for many coaches/clubs.  No doubt they worked him over more thoroughly in prep for this season and he probably suffered from 2nd year blues as a result plus having to deal with the opp's No.1 and some terrible forward entries, effectively like a brand new very good rookie if you like in terms of 2nd year blues.

2020 should see a big improvement, particularly if we can get better organised and creat a more open forward line for the likes of T-Mac, Weid and Melk to work in.

Will hopefully allow T-Mac and Weid to run separate patterns more effectively (doubling back more often in the case of Weid in particular, see work rate) so they aren't both going up in the same contest as often as we've witnessed in the past.

Goodwin also mentioned that he sees Petty as an important key to the 2020 forward structure as the third tall (plus we may have pick #3 as another option).

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

Thought I'd revive this tread... Do we have a full-time forward coach yet? Or is it Justin Plapp performing it a long with his role as midfield coach? Seems awfully ironic that the worst i-50 converting team in the AFL doesn't have a forwards coach. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,247]

8 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Thought I'd revive this tread... Do we have a full-time forward coach yet? Or is it Justin Plapp performing it a long with his role as midfield coach? Seems awfully ironic that the worst i-50 converting team in the AFL doesn't have a forwards coach. 

I brought this up in another thread.

Beggars belief really.

[Demon Disciple 12,274]

I thought Stafford had taken on the role with his ruck duties

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

I thought Stafford had taken on the role with his ruck duties

I think that was just goal kicking.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

1 hour ago, Action Jackson said:

I brought this up in another thread.

Beggars belief really.

 

1 hour ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Thought I'd revive this tread... Do we have a full-time forward coach yet? Or is it Justin Plapp performing it a long with his role as midfield coach? Seems awfully ironic that the worst i-50 converting team in the AFL doesn't have a forwards coach. 

There is zero irony in that @At the break of Gawn...

[dazzledavey36 55,361]

I'd be making a call to Tom Hawkins as a potential 1 year deal player to help the likes of Jackson and Weideman transition onto a forwards coaching role ala Jaryd Roughead.

[spirit of norm smith 16,589]

31 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I'd be making a call to Tom Hawkins as a potential 1 year deal player to help the likes of Jackson and Weideman transition onto a forwards coaching role ala Jaryd Roughead.

Hawkins is about as likely to leave the Cats as Dangerfield.  He’s never leaving sleepy hollow. 
 

I’d plead with a Carey, Lyon or Brereton for an hour a week of their time.  They are masters of  strategic positioning. Perhaps appeal to their sense of empathy for our team and the young Weid. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

37 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I'd be making a call to Tom Hawkins as a potential 1 year deal player to help the likes of Jackson and Weideman transition onto a forwards coaching role ala Jaryd Roughead.

 

3 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Hawkins is about as likely to leave the Cats as Dangerfield.  He’s never leaving sleepy hollow. 
 

I’d plead with a Carey, Lyon or Brereton for an hour a week of their time.  They are masters of  strategic positioning. Perhaps appeal to their sense of empathy for our team and the young Weid. 

Brad Green has coaching experience, was a fanastic mark and knew how to lead. Also a sensational kick for goal.

If it's purely part-time forward craft we're after, that's a prime target for mine.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

32 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Hawkins is about as likely to leave the Cats as Dangerfield.  He’s never leaving sleepy hollow. 
 

I’d plead with a Carey, Lyon or Brereton for an hour a week of their time.  They are masters of  strategic positioning. Perhaps appeal to their sense of empathy for our team and the young Weid. 

I'd plead to Ablett snr. God is the only one who can answer these prayers.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

31 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Brad Green has coaching experience, was a fanastic mark and knew how to lead. Also a sensational kick for goal.

If it's purely part-time forward craft we're after, that's a prime target for mine.

I love the idea of Brad Green, no idea how is as a communicator or a coach, I'm just going by how he played. Mind you, judging by his posts on twitter, both the AFL and he are done with each other. .... ya need to tow the party line, if you know what I mean?

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Engorged Onion

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

42 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Hawkins is about as likely to leave the Cats as Dangerfield.  He’s never leaving sleepy hollow. 
 

I’d plead with a Carey, Lyon or Brereton for an hour a week of their time.  They are masters of  strategic positioning. Perhaps appeal to their sense of empathy for our team and the young Weid. 

Brereton is at the Saints isn't he? Helping out King mainly.

We definitely need an experienced key forward to be able to teach positioning, leading patterns, making space etc - if not for TMac and Weid then at least for Jackson's sake.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

I understand you need someone to teach forwards game plans and so on but why oh why cant we get people of the calibre of Lyon, Neitz and Swarta to do the occasional session teaching some tricks of the trade. are coaches too frail in ego to have those ex stars around? 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I understand you need someone to teach forwards game plans and so on but why oh why cant we get people of the calibre of Lyon, Neitz and Swarta to do the occasional session teaching some tricks of the trade. are coaches too frail in ego to have those ex stars around? 

I think coaches would just mainly worried about consistency of messaging and game plan. Bit tricky bringing in an outsider for a day and having them instruct your players to do different things to what you're trying to make habitual for them.

[BW511 2,688]

We all know it’s a glaring issue that we don’t have a second tall forward and we have two of our best ever whacking the club this week.

I haven’t heard either say they are available to help? They may well have reached out, but you’d hope they are still willing to assist the club if it’s something they can easily aid with

[Half forward flank 1,022]

13 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I think coaches would just mainly worried about consistency of messaging and game plan. Bit tricky bringing in an outsider for a day and having them instruct your players to do different things to what you're trying to make habitual for them.

I understand that but I am talking about timing leads, body positions, doubling back and the like. These are things only gun forwards know. Not suggesting they have anything to do with strategies and game plans. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

14 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I understand that but I am talking about timing leads, body positions, doubling back and the like. These are things only gun forwards know. Not suggesting they have anything to do with strategies and game plans. 

For mine, it's all connected mate. Timing of leads needs to be in conjunction with the mids and all part of the overarching game plan. Not impossible, but just makes it a bit hard to have a consultant type of operator come in if they're not going to be there regularly.

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

8 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

For mine, it's all connected mate. Timing of leads needs to be in conjunction with the mids and all part of the overarching game plan. Not impossible, but just makes it a bit hard to have a consultant type of operator come in if they're not going to be there regularly.

 

Fair enough

[Earl Hood 6,101]

22 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I understand that but I am talking about timing leads, body positions, doubling back and the like. These are things only gun forwards know. Not suggesting they have anything to do with strategies and game plans. 

Have look at a replay of the match, at least the first half that I have revisited, there doesn’t appear to be much wrong with where our half forwards were positioning themselves. Time and time again there were leading, free options but the ball carrier chose to go forward and kick long or shorter but nearly always in a predictable straight line while we had players free off to the left or right. The ball carrier just has to look and in crowd free stadiums, listen to the calls! This issue is so obvious from looking at the video. And look at the Tigers defenders, often caught behind our leading half forwards but I suspect that is because their zone defence was just assuming the ball carrier would predictably kick down the line or bomb to the CHF area so they congregate around there and ignore their leading opponent. This reminds me of when I played suburban footy off half back, if your team was on top you would just ignore your opponent and go to the predictable area the ball would be kicked too. 
 

Taking the obvious forward options makes us a better side but OK it doesn’t make us a great side, we have disposal issues but really if you are coached to play within your abilities, that’s a start. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

9 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Have look at a replay of the match, at least the first half that I have revisited, there doesn’t appear to be much wrong with where our half forwards were positioning themselves. Time and time again there were leading, free options but the ball carrier chose to go forward and kick long or shorter but nearly always in a predictable straight line while we had players free off to the left or right. The ball carrier just has to look and in crowd free stadiums, listen to the calls! This issue is so obvious from looking at the video. And look at the Tigers defenders, often caught behind our leading half forwards but I suspect that is because their zone defence was just assuming the ball carrier would predictably kick down the line or bomb to the CHF area so they congregate around there and ignore their leading opponent. This reminds me of when I played suburban footy off half back, if your team was on top you would just ignore your opponent and go to the predictable area the ball would be kicked too. 
 

Taking the obvious forward options makes us a better side but OK it doesn’t make us a great side, we have disposal issues but really if you are coached to play within your abilities, that’s a start. 

Agree, that one at the start from Viney srt the tone for the day.

[tiers 2,843]

Part of a forward's craft is to be able to anticipate when and how the ball is to be delivered into the forward line. It takes only a little doubt in a forward's mind for him to miss the best opportunity to lead and to receive.

Last week TMac was leading away from Tracca when he suddenly reversed and lead towards Tracca and was rewarded with a perfect pass and subsequent goal. My guess is that Tracca is the only supplier who can be trusted to get it right and honour a good lead. Also Hannan was rewarded.

Would TMac have led the same way and been rewarded by any else? Perhaps Salem but who else?

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Unfortunately our forwards are full of doubt and confidence has been affected. Imagine the noise stars like Lyon and Schwarta would be making if mids kicked or didnt kick to them as ours do. And then at another level again, Carey, Buddy or Lloyd.  There would be hell to pay, 

[Pates 9,660]

10 minutes ago, tiers said:

Would TMac have led the same way and been rewarded by any else? Perhaps Salem but who else?

This is true, and also Tracca and Salem are probably the only two I can think of that can see space and demand the forward lead into it by placing the pass there. Kozzie was another that actually honoured a lead. Everybody else just bombs away indiscriminately. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Pates

[Ham 741]

56 minutes ago, Pates said:

This is true, and also Tracca and Salem are probably the only two I can think of that can see space and demand the forward lead into it by placing the pass there. Kozzie was another that actually honoured a lead. Everybody else just bombs away indiscriminately. 

That score assist was good, but he did undo that with a bomb into the 50 at the other end in another quarter. When he had 2 forwards providing leads. It's just inexperience, but you would hope that someone would bring that up and show him. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Ham