On 16/11/2019 at 21:23, sue said:

Definitely it mirrored German society at the time.   Of course not every German had those views  - socialists, communists, gays, Jews and the few liberals doubtless did not.   I hazard a guess that you might be the victim of your own point about judging the past by curent values, namely perhaps you think Hitler and his government were so beyond the pale that they could not have possibly reflected German society's view at the time.  

Anyway, as you say, off topic (though not by much).

we are talking here only of the horrific excesses of hitler and his nsdp, and there is no way that these mirrored civilised society (germany included) in the 1930s and 1940s. There wasn't so many convictions at nuremburg for crimes against humanity for nothing. Once hitler seized power (unelected) germany became a totalitarian state where people ceased to have the luxury of freedom of speech and state secrecy was paramount.

certainly hitler in part mirrored some of germany's aspirations and prejudices but much of what he did or was responsible for, he did not, and it is that for what he must be ultimately judged on. If you had said he mirrored german society at the time in some aspects i might have let it go but your statement was too broad brush, because he obviously grossly exceeded what was acceptable at that time in german society.

 

For all of the negatives and there are many, I like the way that the clubs are uniting on the issue.

We are at least heading in the right direction.

The acceptance of racism is less than what it used to be.  While the internet gives racists a platform i does so for many and varied forms of F#xkwits.

Social media is in the process of tidying up it's operations and racist groups have been shut down enmasse and less hateful content is getting through since Christchurch.  Still a long way to go.

Taking a different tack the extreme right wing globally will continue to keep race issues front and centre as it is part of their agenda.  

I could talk about this for days but will leave it there.

Edited November 16, 20195 yr by Guest

  On 16/11/2019 at 11:56, Sir Why You Little said:

Albernese is in a coma. There is no opposition in Australia at present

There’s no potent opposition to right-wing nationalism/populism anywhere in the western world right now. Which is particularly worrying (and downright weird) given the turkeys we’re currently dealing with. Scomo/Boris/Trump would have the asses handed to them by any given politician that showed up with genuine fire, charisma and vision (and a hint of integrity). But too many sectors of the left are in a quiet turmoil about the exploitive politics behind their favourite brand of socks, or shaming other people for their choice of non-inclusive, hetero-normative breakfast cereal. People that hang around the conservative/fascist end of the political spectrum aren’t known for their powers of critical self-analysis. It’s viewed as weakness or admittance of error. It’s obviously a failing of character, but it is an asset in the game of politics. While the left continues to revel in it’s supposedly-remarkable ability to reflect, analyse, debate and confront each other on topics of morality, it seems oblivious to the fact that it’s eating itself. The left can’t find a leader because it is so addicted to unraveling and examining every corner of every argument, that every candidate ends up being reduced to an impotent husk. 
 

 

Edited November 17, 20195 yr by Mel Bourne

  On 16/11/2019 at 22:44, daisycutter said:

we are talking here only of the horrific excesses of hitler and his nsdp, and there is no way that these mirrored civilised society (germany included) in the 1930s and 1940s. There wasn't so many convictions at nuremburg for crimes against humanity for nothing. Once hitler seized power (unelected) germany became a totalitarian state where people ceased to have the luxury of freedom of speech and state secrecy was paramount.

certainly hitler in part mirrored some of germany's aspirations and prejudices but much of what he did or was responsible for, he did not, and it is that for what he must be ultimately judged on. If you had said he mirrored german society at the time in some aspects i might have let it go but your statement was too broad brush, because he obviously grossly exceeded what was acceptable at that time in german society.

 

I'll concede 'mirroring' is too broad (though in my defence I did list a lot of groups who were opposed, so if I did say mirroring I was contradicting myself but not my meaning).  Of course I don't think he mirrored German society ins EVERY aspect and EVERY group.  But I disagree with the implication that he only defied civilized norms after he seized power (which BTW he didn't seize initially, he was handed it (in a similar way our General General can do) - the seizing came later when suddenly elections didn't seem necessary anymore.  The thuggery and racism was well underweigh before.

But on the other hand I do not believe that the majority German population were simply terrified into supporting his policies (though later some may have been too terrified to change their minds).  It reflected what many Germans saw as necessary for their society.  I would have agreed with your last sentence if you had said he exceeded what was acceptable in German society in say 1920.  But what was acceptable to many Germans changed into the 1930's.  It's a slippery slope and I fear we are in for it again, but that's not for this forum and I'll post no more on this.

 

  On 17/11/2019 at 00:01, Mel Bourne said:

There’s no potent opposition to right-wing nationalism/populism anywhere in the western world right now. Which is particularly worrying (and downright weird) given the turkeys we’re currently dealing with. Scomo/Boris/Trump would have the asses handed to them by any given politician that showed up with genuine fire, charisma and vision (and a hint of integrity). But too many sectors of the left are in a quiet turmoil about the exploitive politics behind their favourite brand of socks, or shaming other people for their choice of non-inclusive, hetero-normative breakfast cereal. People that hang around the conservative/fascist end of the political spectrum aren’t known for their powers of critical self-analysis. It’s viewed as weakness or admittance of error. It’s obviously a failing of character, but it is an asset in the game of politics. While the left continues to revel in it’s supposedly-remarkable ability to reflect, analyse, debate and confront each other on topics of morality, it seems oblivious to the fact that it’s eating itself. The left can’t find a leader because it is so addicted to unraveling and examining every corner of every argument, that every candidate ends up being reduced to an impotent husk. 
 

 

Agreed. Trump will get a 2nd Term. The Dems have no idea what to do

  On 16/11/2019 at 12:02, Biffen said:

On the verge of going to NZ?

 

All things pass.

  On 15/11/2019 at 07:41, old dee said:

I am so old I don't know any of those terms ds.

Neither do most of the people who use them.

 

Virtue signalling means precisely nothing - it's just an empty insult rednecks throw at progressives.It assumes the insulter knows the mind-set of the insulted. How can they? 

  On 18/11/2019 at 00:57, Jara said:

Neither do most of the people who use them.

 

Virtue signalling means precisely nothing - it's just an empty insult rednecks throw at progressives.It assumes the insulter knows the mind-set of the insulted. How can they? 

What’s a redneck?

.

Edited November 18, 20195 yr by Lord Nev
Edit - Nevermind, I'm checking out instead.

  On 17/11/2019 at 01:04, Sir Why You Little said:

Agreed. Trump will get a 2nd Term. The Dems have no idea what to do

Trouble is that the Republicans have moved further to the right and many Dems have become default Reps...Sanders, Warren & AOC scare the hell out of them so badly that some are even pushing for Hillary to run again.

Now that is delusional...

  On 18/11/2019 at 01:13, rjay said:

Trouble is that the Republicans have moved further to the right and many Dems have become default Reps...Sanders, Warren & AOC scare the hell out of them so badly that some are even pushing for Hillary to run again.

Now that is delusional...

Ahh yes i know. I have been watching closely. 
USA, England, and Australia all of them a big mess

Get Drunk and Dance with Girls

While it is a disgusting thing, it is something I believe humanity will never be rid of. Humans, like animals, are tribal in nature and thus prefer to, and feel safe in, ones tribe. You see it in the animal kingdom whereby any differences are targeted and eradicated from tribe, herd, etc.

Because of this tribal instinct, a foreign/alien person (whether they are of a different ethnicity or not) will be looked down upon, and subconsciously, people will try to identify and target something that makes them different from the "tribe."

Everyone, at some point in their life, will have a racist thought, even if they don't realise it (It can be brought about by jealousy, envy of physical traits, financial stability, social standing, etc.). It is those that voice their thoughts or put it into action that need to be weeded out and publicly shamed because they are showing that they believe what they are thinking and it isn't moment lapse in thought brought on by emotion.

Edited November 18, 20195 yr by AshleyH30

Back to the subject- which is the idiotic online comment.

Can anyone confirm who made it and if it was indeed a racially motivated act of malice?

I fear we may be jumping at shadows of the Jungian variety.

Is Trump to blame , or Boris?

How does politics even enter into it?

Are conservatives the only grouping capable of such behavior?

Do those who are vehemently leftist/ neo liberal see any faults in  neo- Marxism and its consequences?

It’s been enlightening if nothing else to see people’s views.

Although it makes no sense at all to me the above comment is extremely revealing. Ashley has delved deeply. 

 

  On 18/11/2019 at 03:51, Biffen said:

Back to the subject- which is the idiotic online comment.

Can anyone confirm who made it and if it was indeed a racially motivated act of malice?

I fear we may be jumping at shadows of the Jungian variety.

Is Trump to blame , or Boris?

How does politics even enter into it?

Are conservatives the only grouping capable of such behavior?

Do those who are vehemently leftist/ neo liberal see any faults in  neo- Marxism and its consequences?

It’s been enlightening if nothing else to see people’s views.

Although it makes no sense at all to me the above comment is extremely revealing. Ashley has delved deeply. 

 

I was told that the person who posted the comment was a dark skinned male. 

  On 18/11/2019 at 03:51, Biffen said:

Back to the subject- which is the idiotic online comment.

Can anyone confirm who made it and if it was indeed a racially motivated act of malice?

I fear we may be jumping at shadows of the Jungian variety.

Is Trump to blame , or Boris?

How does politics even enter into it?

Are conservatives the only grouping capable of such behavior?

Do those who are vehemently leftist/ neo liberal see any faults in  neo- Marxism and its consequences?

It’s been enlightening if nothing else to see people’s views.

Although it makes no sense at all to me the above comment is extremely revealing. Ashley has delved deeply. 

 

I get your point 'Biff', we are assuming it is a racially motivated comment.

...but no matter it's more than idiotic and shouldn't be tolerated if made to anyone of any race or colour.

As to the right wing/conservative v left wing stuff.

We need to seperate that from the acts of extremists.

AKA the nut jobs...always misguided, often disaffected.

 

  On 18/11/2019 at 04:07, Ethan Tremblay said:

I was told that the person who posted the comment was a dark skinned male. 

As you work and live in WA law enforcement I will assume your source is reliable.

If this in fact true then we can all see how easily people can jump to conclusions.

 

  On 15/11/2019 at 15:45, Pates said:

The thing of social media is that it gives these wankers a platform to spew their garbage from the comfort of their keyboard/phone. It gives them the voice to say these things they’ve been thinking with little risk of repercussions, I can only hope investigations into this idiot uncover who they are and they’re able to be named, shamed, and fired from wherever they work. 

I agree the behavior should not be tolerated, and those responsible should be held to account in some way - but having them fired from their job even if it had nothing to do in context of their employment? Not sure that's answer, because people that say stuff like this are obviously uneducated and if you get them fired there is a good chance you and I will start paying for them to live via Centrelink with our taxes. No thanks! 

Here's an idea - why don't the media outlets stop glorifying this idiotic commentary by faceless internet users? Stop feeding these bloody trolls, the notoriety of being responsible for a campaign like this is likely what they seek. 

 

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by Smokey

  On 19/11/2019 at 04:57, Smokey said:

I

Here's an idea - why don't the media outlets stop glorifying this idiotic commentary by faceless internet users? Stop feeding these bloody trolls, the notoriety of being responsible for a campaign like this is likely what they seek. 

 

spot on. need a (mainstream) media blackout, at least no name mentioned (inc web alias names) and no pics or interviews. If anything reported just that some idiot (whatever) was abusive and cowardly etc. nothing better with these people than to ignore them and give them no oxygen.

sadly, the mainstream media just love this stuff and saturation play it for all they can

  On 19/11/2019 at 04:57, Smokey said:

I agree the behavior should not be tolerated, and those responsible should be held to account in some way - but having them fired from their job even if it had nothing to do in context of their employment? Not sure that's answer, because people that say stuff like this are obviously uneducated and if you get them fired there is a good chance you and I will start paying for them to live via Centrelink with our taxes. No thanks!

From the ones I've seen at least; the people who have been fired have generally had their workplace/employer listed on their social page, so they're not getting fired for making the comment as such, but getting fired due to how they're representing their employer.

 

  On 19/11/2019 at 04:57, Smokey said:

Here's an idea - why don't the media outlets stop glorifying this idiotic commentary by faceless internet users? Stop feeding these bloody trolls, the notoriety of being responsible for a campaign like this is likely what they seek. 

That's definitely true, social media posts are somehow becoming newsworthy stories even if it's about a parent being outraged over the misspelling on packaging.

But certainly in this instance they literally feed off the hate and negativity that is born from it, they're looking for reactions and the media gives it to them. But that said does that mean people shouldn't call it out as Ryan did?

On my point of getting the person fired, maybe it's not the answer but I can tell you right now if I found out I was working side by side with someone like that I wouldn't be comfortable with it. 

  On 16/11/2019 at 07:50, willmoy said:

It's pretty bloody obvious, isn't it . We live in a racist country that's been like that for ages and New Zealand not so much. This is what we are being re-educated to believe and to live alongside from Murdoch's FOX to  3AW's drivel. There are so many people here that are on the verge of just giving up and emigrating anywhere....

The amount of times I heard the perpetually outraged snowflakes threaten this after the last election was truly amusing.
And guess what, they're all still here.
If only they were people of their word and followed through with their sensationalist internet declarations.

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by Fork 'em

  On 18/11/2019 at 01:03, Biffen said:

What’s a redneck?

Virtue signalling Redneck means precisely nothing - it's just an empty insult rednecks virtue signallers throw at conservatives. It assumes the insulter knows the mind-set of the insulted. How can they? 

:p

  On 19/11/2019 at 11:01, Fork 'em said:

The amount of times I heard the perpetually outraged snowflakes threaten this after the last election was truly amusing.
And guess what, they're all still here.
If only they were people of their word and followed through with their sensationalist internet declarations.

The night is young, but time is on the wing............two secret tips, tell the kids, if they love it, they will love your decision, and where else in the world is it healthier and safer and cheaper among other things.....

Considering I know a few Maori kiwis who live in a constant state of anxiety due to earthquakes they've experienced and the threat of tzunami on their coastal town I'm not sure they feel either healthier or safer.
I also know they don't feel things are especially cheap.
It'll be interesting to see if you actually chase the greener grass on the other side of the ditch.
I'll tip you won't, regardless of your hollow riddles on the internet.

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by Fork 'em

  On 16/11/2019 at 01:29, Biffen said:

I’d describe it as an attempt to control speech and in doing so to imply a sense of moral superiority by the controller.

You know like that fraud Trudeau who corrected a guy that said mankind by saying “ we say peoplekind now” .

The same guy that got around India in traditional Indian attire for weeks then later got caught out in “brown face” twice.

It’s a symbolic hypocrisy mostly used by mostly white people who carry needless guilt or shame and project it upon others.

Hope I cleared that up.

 

And we have "batters" in cricket now and actresses are now 'actors'. The stupidity goes on.  Do the girls really have problems with their gender that they want to given a masculine role? I don't think so.