On 24/09/2024 at 14:26, Cranky Franky said:

There's only one relevant question. 

Over the past 3 years did the list managers improve our list or make it worse ?

The answer is obvious.

It's Yes.

We've concentrated on the draft:

2021 - JVR, Howes, Woewodin 

2022 - Jefferson, Adams

2023 - Windsor, Tholstrup 

We've had some low cost experienced players join that haven't had much impact but that's because we've been focussing on using early picks, not trading them.

  On 24/09/2024 at 23:10, Colm said:

We played with 2 rucks for the two season before we traded Jackson. We were able to convince Grundy a million dollar AA ruck that we would continue to play two rucks. 
You don’t think we could have convinced Meek- come and win and flag and learn from the greatest ruck man ever?! Who’s in his 30s.  I mean surely we could have convinced him. 
 

Arces was - F3rd pick on a three year deal for $350k. I think we could easily have brought in Meek and Arces for less than Grundy and Hunter. 
 

Edit- both these players were moved on to make Jackson deal possible. We were in the box seat if we had of made the moves. 

Surely you can see Jackson is a much different mobile ruckman to Meek and is capable of playing in other positions? 
No, I don’t think we could have convinced Meek. If you think we could, I’d say you’re living in dream land. He was after a number 1 ruck role.

Acres has proved to be a better wingman than expected at Carlton. I’d say his output has definitely been better than Hunter’s. Having said that I don’t think adding a wingman was a priority but as the opportunity presented itself late in the trade period we elected to take it. Carlton had done their work early on Acres. No chance Hunter is on more $ than Acres though. 

In the scheme of things these are relatively minor “misses” that were not critical needs and we were probably never even in the running for. We’re not lamenting the lack of another wingman as a key deficiency. And a backup ruckman is a priority, but it needs to be one happy to play predominantly at Casey unless the worst happens.
Do you really just want to take potshots every instance of another team getting a slightly better outcome than us?

  On 24/09/2024 at 01:56, Axis of Bob said:

We wanted Grundy out. Geelong wanted Stengle out. Gold Coast wanted Chol out. Port Adelaide wanted Teakle out. Gold Coast wanted Bowes out. Hawthorn wanted Mitchell out. 

It's not a good argument.

We have paid peanuts to get depth players to complement the strong list we already had. Hawthorn paid a lot of money because they had salary cap to burn due to their terrible performances whilst we had a list with the contracts of Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, May, Lever, Brayshaw, Salem, Langdon etc on it. You're comparing apples with oranges. 

But we have bought in Players who are not even depth. When a spot opened up for a Senior game, they were not selected. 
That is incredibly poor trading, considering who we let go

  On 25/09/2024 at 08:42, Sir Why You Little said:

But we have bought in Players who are not even depth. When a spot opened up for a Senior game, they were not selected. 
That is incredibly poor trading, considering who we let go

Who like? You mention "players" plural, but the only player we've traded in of late who hasn't played a game is Fullarton.

If you're only trading lower/cheap picks and offering salaries to match, to only have one amongst a number who didn't get an AFL game is actually good trading.

  On 24/09/2024 at 23:44, old55 said:

It's Yes.

We've concentrated on the draft:

2021 - JVR, Howes, Woewodin 

2022 - Jefferson, Adams

2023 - Windsor, Tholstrup 

We've had some low cost experienced players join that haven't had much impact but that's because we've been focussing on using early picks, not trading them.

That's a load of carp. 

Drafting has been great. Trading & list management has been total garbage.

Hawks have drafted well AND have managed to trade in Amon, Dambrosio, Ginnivan & Meek compared to Fullarton, Dunstan, Shache & McAdam

 

  On 24/09/2024 at 23:44, old55 said:

We've had some low cost experienced players join that haven't had much impact but that's because we've been focussing on using early picks, not trading them.

Also because we've been focused on keeping the list together and re-signing players, which is also list management.

  On 25/09/2024 at 10:38, Cranky Franky said:

That's a load of carp. 

Drafting has been great. Trading & list management has been total garbage.

Hawks have drafted well AND have managed to trade in Amon, Dambrosio, Ginnivan & Meek compared to Fullarton, Dunstan, Shache & McAdam

 

yr looking at the equivalent of 2016-19 for the mfc for the likes of amon, d'ambrosio, ginnivan, and meek, plus barras and battle as a free agent at the end of this year

in the equivalent time period we brought in lewis, melksham, hibberd, lever, may, and langdon

let's see how dingley goes recruiting players after they've won a premiership and had to re-contract their equivalents of gawn, petracca, oliver, brayshaw, viney et al

  On 25/09/2024 at 10:37, bing181 said:

Who like? You mention "players" plural, but the only player we've traded in of late who hasn't played a game is Fullarton.

If you're only trading lower/cheap picks and offering salaries to match, to only have one amongst a number who didn't get an AFL game is actually good trading.

The cheap lower picks we got rid of played in this year Finals Series, whilst Fullarton, Schache, McAdam and Hunter have done bugger all.

Can you not see the Massive imbalance created?

  On 25/09/2024 at 11:47, Sir Why You Little said:

The cheap lower picks we got rid of played in this year Finals Series, whilst Fullarton, Schache, McAdam and Hunter have done bugger all.

Can you not see the Massive imbalance created?

You're wasting your breath.

No matter how many times you point out 3 years of trading & list management disasters there is always a conga line of apologists lining up.

Amazing because player trading & list management are pretty black & white.

 

  On 25/09/2024 at 14:23, Cranky Franky said:

You're wasting your breath.

No matter how many times you point out 3 years of trading & list management disasters there is always a conga line of apologists lining up.

Amazing because player trading & list management are pretty black & white.

 

I really just loved the use of the phrase conga line. Real easy to visualise. 

  On 25/09/2024 at 10:38, Cranky Franky said:

That's a load of carp. 

Drafting has been great. Trading & list management has been total garbage.

Hawks have drafted well AND have managed to trade in Amon, Dambrosio, Ginnivan & Meek compared to Fullarton, Dunstan, Shache & McAdam

 

I didn't realise that drafting isn't part of list management.

Who is responsible for trading in players vs drafting? Taylor has done a good job in getting young talent but is Chris lamb responsible for the trades as let’s be honest the last few years have been poor 

“We need to put Melbourne's list management team in the gun for what is the worst contract we have ever seen. There is $10 million left on this deal for 6-years. He has lasted one year of the 7-year deal." 

- @kanecornes on the Clayton Oliver deal.  AFL TRADE RADIO

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/9beBErUftjdj2eNc/?mibextid=D5vuiz
JJ running through draft and trades. Noted good drafting by Taylor over many years (perhaps only questioning Jefferson) but very poor trading over the past two years … zero out of 6.  

Grundy ❌

Hunter ❌

Schache ❌

Fullerton ❌

McAdam ❌

Billings ❌

Feeling for Tim Lamb. Undermined. Twice. 

  On 03/10/2024 at 11:05, H_T said:

Feeling for Tim Lamb. Undermined. Twice. 

He'll be lucky to be in a job after the Football Dept review.

  On 03/10/2024 at 11:10, mo64 said:

He'll be lucky to be in a job after the Football Dept review.

He’s lucky to have a job now. 

  On 25/09/2024 at 01:00, Mach5 said:

Surely you can see Jackson is a much different mobile ruckman to Meek and is capable of playing in other positions? 
No, I don’t think we could have convinced Meek. If you think we could, I’d say you’re living in dream land. He was after a number 1 ruck role.

Acres has proved to be a better wingman than expected at Carlton. I’d say his output has definitely been better than Hunter’s. Having said that I don’t think adding a wingman was a priority but as the opportunity presented itself late in the trade period we elected to take it. Carlton had done their work early on Acres. No chance Hunter is on more $ than Acres though. 

In the scheme of things these are relatively minor “misses” that were not critical needs and we were probably never even in the running for. We’re not lamenting the lack of another wingman as a key deficiency. And a backup ruckman is a priority, but it needs to be one happy to play predominantly at Casey unless the worst happens.
Do you really just want to take potshots every instance of another team getting a slightly better outcome than us?

We could have convinced Meek. 

He looks up to Gawn...and guess what happened to his form this year when Gawn started mentoring him on the side? 

Lamb is just incompetent - has no idea what the squad genuinely needs, is a poor judge of footy talent, character and chemistry 

  On 03/10/2024 at 11:53, fr_ap said:

Lamb is just incompetent - has no idea what the squad genuinely needs, is a poor judge of footy talent, character and chemistry 

In the wash up Tim Lamb appears to have allowed ‘the magician’ Jason Taylor a free hand to do his magic come draft night. Plus totally confounded the critics.
 

 

Interesting trade period, still gutted to lost Nibbler not just for the man but his onfield leadership.

If we draft two guns well be ok but we need our senior core to be injury free and some mid tier players (and Clarry) to be more consistent. Really hope Jefferson can show something otherwise that will present a problem.

Good trade period, Lamb has done well here...

pete ryan (age journo): what did you achieve today?
tim lamb: i had three sausage rolls

he absolutely slaps 'scoops' manure down about clayton being 'desperate' to get out

Big excited kid Trac (private-)messaged him about Pick 9.

Neither (public) social media content, nor absence thereof, tell us everything. Far from it, I reckon.

Edited October 16, 2024Oct 16 by Timothy Reddan-A'Blew

Confirmed outs:

Alex Neal-Bullen … 29yo - 3rd in B&F (Traded to Adelaide Crows) 

Pick 28 (from Adelaide), Pick 40, Pick 46 (from Adelaide), Pick 54, pick 65 …(ALL Traded to Essendon)

Future First (MFC pick. Traded to Essendon)

Future Third (MFC pick. Traded to Adelaide)

Future Third (Traded from Essendon, on-traded to Brisbane Lions)

 

Confirmed ins:

Tom Campbell 32yo. (Delisted Free Agent from St Kilda)

Harry Sharp, 21yo, traded from Lions. 

Pick 9 (Traded from Essendon)

Future Third (Tied to reigning premiers Brisbane Lions) 

——————————————

2024 draft - 1st Round 5,9

2025 draft - 2nd round MFC, 3rd round tied to Lions, 4th round MFC. 
 

———————————————

✅ no 29 year old often injured or declining players brought in for our 2nd or 3rd round future picks 

Edited October 16, 2024Oct 16 by spirit of norm smith
U

Nothing particularly new, but for the record...

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/1678945/trade-wrap-list-manager-review?videoId=1678945&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1729074848001

Edited October 16, 2024Oct 16 by Timothy Reddan-A'Blew