Melbourne v Hawthorn

[3001 0]

Like the defence alot when WHELAN is down there, things just seem to run smoother.

Always seems to have time to sum up the best decision.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Some quick standout observations.

- Very impressed with Buckley

- Jones was dominant in patches.

- Neitz looked extremely lively and fit

- Miller and Yze were useless

- Kicking skills were poor

- Hardly saw Bizzell

- Too much fiddling around with little hand-passes that went no where and more often than not led to trouble

- Why were there occasions when the ball was on the wing but Melbourne had no one in their forward line?

[Jaded No More 68,974]

- Too much fiddling around with little hand-passes that went no where and more often than not led to trouble

- Why were there occasions when the ball was on the wing but Melbourne had no one in their forward line?

It was the 'run and carry' game-plan.

It didn't work, but that was the reason behind it all. The idea was to run and release a player up ahead. But what really happened was that every player got the ball, remembered Daniher's instruction to 'handball' and proceeded to do so blindly. The result was handballing into danger.

As I said, we need to quickly improve this game plan, or drop it. But remember that a lot of supporters were confused early in 2006 when we started to play 'tempo' footy, which was all the rage. We looked shocking doing it, but by the middle of the season it became a very useful tactic which we implemented very well.

I still think that we need to stick with what we know best for the majority of the game. We're a kicking team, it's our strength and you should always play to your strengths. However, on bigger grounds like Subiaco, where you have a lot more space, this 'run and carry' just might prove to be a winner against the local teams.

[Axis of Bob 11,844]

I was not unhappy with the game. The run and carry game style actually didn't seem too bad to me. With that style you will always turn the ball over now and then because you are taking risks in trying to create run. The other thing to bear in mind is that this game style is not necessarily best suited to Telstra Dome, but rather the bigger grounds like you wind in SA and WA. I think some of our young players played this style better than the older players. Players like CJ, Buckley (who was very impressive) and Bate seemed to take to it more easily. Also, I thought we had the clear edge in the ruck, and that Hawthorn will really struggle in this area this year.

Freak, it doesn't suprise me that you were are gushing over Franklin. It was an Yze-esque game. Read into that what you want. But in doing so I will ask you to notice how many of his goals came as a direct result of a Melbourne turnover or error where he was found in space forward of the ball. Then ask yourself why he was there.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

...

I just don't understand why they have to come out with such a set tactic. Shouldn't they just choose the best option at the time?

For example, if the best option is to kick it long, then kick it long. If the best option is to "run and carry" then do that.

There is no need to encourage one particular tactic because various options are needed throughout a game.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

I just don't understand why they have to come out with such a set tactic. Shouldn't they just choose the best option at the time?

Because it's pre-season and nobody could care less if we win or lose?

The idea is to get used to this game plan, and we can only do that by implementing it as much as possible in practice games, which is what tonight was.

Realistically, we wouldn't play this way at TD to begin with, but clearly we need all the practice we can get.

Obviously when the real stuff starts, the players will be encouraged to take the best option. Some players still did that tonight, while others really stuck to the plan. I bet you that if TJ played tonight, he wouldn't bother handballing into trouble. I guess that's what you get when half your midfield is being replaced by the likes of Godfrey.

When I looked over my shoulder and saw McLean, White, TJ, Moloney, Davey, Whelan etc... sitting behind me, it was very clear that we weren't going to win this contest. You can't even win a meaningless pre-season game these days if you're missing half your side.

[Nasher 33,617]

There were a few things that stuck out in my mind immediately after the game:

Bizzell, Warnock, Ward and Godders have no roles to play this year barring injury.

Bell and CJ made me very, very happy. Buckley showed that he has the ability to become at least a serviceable player. And I finally got to see Frawley's famous kicking action!

I'm half disappointed, half relieved that I don't have to go to Launceston next week now.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

There were a few things that stuck out in my mind immediately after the game:

Bizzell, Warnock, Ward and Godders have no roles to play this year barring injury.

Pretty harsh on Warnock.

I didn't think he played that badly, given the way our midfield was getting belted and how fast the supply was coming in. Apart from Belly, all of our defenders were made to look ordinary I thought.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Because it's pre-season and nobody could care less if we win or lose?

The idea is to get used to this game plan, and we can only do that by implementing it as much as possible in practice games, which is what tonight was.

Realistically, we wouldn't play this way at TD to begin with, but clearly we need all the practice we can get.

Why not practice what they will use rather than what they won't?

For example, practice choosing the best option.

It defies common sense is all...

Bizzell, Warnock, Ward and Godders have no roles to play this year barring injury.

Who was Bizzell playing on? I can't remember.

I don't remember him being beaten by anyone, but I don't remember him doing anything special either.

[deestroy08 0]

Just a few things to say about tonight's game (whose result doesn't upset me too much!)

I loved Buckley (I didn't know who he was for half of the game) - think he's already showing some really good signs and as someone said before, has a few Davey-like traits. Also liked the look of Frawley - he charged through packs of players several times and maintained good control of the ball. I don't think Warnock is up to it at all right now.

Neitz looks awesome. I thought Ward was our strongest player, and I was also impressed with Bell - hope he pulls up okay after he looked as though he tweaked his left hamstring during a kick-out late in the game.

Bate was too quite except for that awesome smother.

Clearly having 6, 20, or 100 umpires wouldn't make a difference - they're all hacks. 9 umpires and they still didn't realise CJ had a Super Goal until someone replayed it to them a million times during 3/4 time. Hopeless.

[occo 2]

I must b the only 1 who was apalled by that effort. Hand passing all the time...made me keep shouting "kick the bl***y thing!!". Shocking effort and we didnt deserve to win. Hopefully this shows us we are never going to be able to play like Sydney (this ineffective handpassing and tackeling). Anyway thought Bell had a good game, C.Johnson stood out as did Bruce and Green. Bate was very good and i got in a fight with a hawks supporter cause he kept calling him a red [censored]. Miller mark the bl***y ball, yze was impressive the way he kept running and pressuring. Big standout was Buddy. This kid will b a star

[occo 2]

Clearly having 6, 20, or 100 umpires wouldn't make a difference - they're all hacks. 9 umpires and they still didn't realise CJ had a Super Goal until someone replayed it to them a million times during 3/4 time. Hopeless.

Agreed. Umpires were attrocious tonight.

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

I don't think any definitive statements on players can be made based on a NAB Cup game.

What impressed me was that when the heat was on, we had Hawthorn's measure despite missing a number of key midfielders. That's what H&A footy is like, not like the last quarter when we ran out of legs and Hawthorn were pretty much doing as they pleased. Franklin has amazing athleticism but I hope he enjoyed the lattitude he received in the last quarter. He'll have to work a lot harder for his goals come the real stuff.

My favourite moment was when Campbell gave Ward a late one and Wardy came back at him and delivered a couple lovely blows. Campbell took a while to get up and then had to come off because he was groggy. Was great seeing this try-hard tough guy cop one and Ward standing up for himself. Might cost him a week or two but I enjoyed it

I thought it was a good early season hit-out. A few players will need to really lift to make the Rd 1 team but I was fairly pleased with what I saw.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

i thought bell played a good game? but nar i dont really give a stuff that we lost, though i am impressed on how our young kids went! Frawley looks the goods and Hughes should atleast play a couple of games if they nominate him as they did to warnock.. Jones very good first half but sorta went in the 2nd.

Like most people, I am not worried about the loss today but I have just one question. Where were Davey and Pickett today? I hope they are not injured already.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Fairly pleased under the circumstances. I have a sneaking suspicion that ND coached this to lose. In a H&A match would he have left Warnock on Frankin? Would he even have played him? ditto Biz? From what we've heard he wanted to see a few things happen and see a few young guys show what they're worth, and we saw that in a much bigger way than I expected. But also we saw a number of ok individual performances, but very little in the way of real team-work, of the kind we saw after round 4 last year. Oh, and our tackling was not up to 2006 standards. Not by a long shot.

- CJ looked more like a player today than at any time so far. The first time I've seen him really comfortable in a senior match, albeit only NAB.

- Buckley looked fantastic. Seems to have all the tools, and hardness. More meat for the demons midfield grinder.

- Bell was sensational at times. In a backline where he didn't have all that much support, he was a standout.

- I thought Bate went ok. Not scintillating, but ok.

- Brown worked tirelessly.

- Dunn looked good, then vanished. Overcrowded perhaps? Midfiled struggling?

- Frawley seems ok, but I'd be concerned if he played more than 10 matches. Still has a bit more to learn.

- Green's boot is back with avengeance.

- MJ, PJ were pretty useless. Mark got his hand to the ball, but too often was sharked. PJ got heaps of frees, but didn't seem to want to kick.

- Jones good, but lonely.

- JMac blew the cobwebs out, and needed that one match to get it out of the way.

- Yze and Miller. On VERY shaky ground.

- Robbo's back.

- Warnock. Drop him.

- Ward did just enough.

Its not worth the grief to mention Bell and Miller.

I'm stunned at this sentiment. He was fantastic today. Was VERY busy in the backline for the whole match. He and wrecker will be sensational.

dude is it too late to book that seasons ticket for buller

Twit.

I love that football is back. Pity that we have to wait a month before we see the real Melbourne play.

That was the only part that hurt. I wanted to get a clearer idea of how we are going, and if we play up woop woop, then we'll have fewer chances to find out. If we play at, say, Princes Park, I'm there.

Posters (for the most part) have neglected to mention that we had McLean, Bartram, Davey, Holland, Trav, Moloney, Pickett, Sylvia, Whelan and White out, all of whom you could argue are in the starting 22. They had Croad, Smith and Jacobs out.

With that in mind, I wanted us to show that we could go with these guys, and if possible show that we have what it takes to win the game. We did that easily.

Also, when we play them again in round 2, we'll know just about ALL their tricks as they played a lot of their first 22 today, we'll have a vastly different side, and having lost today they won't have seen the way we win, giving them less background on us. You could argue that as long as Croad and Franklin are stopped, we have these guys beat.

If you assume all of Brock, Davey, Trav, Pickett, Whelan and White have to come back in, then you have to drop at least 8 players (by round 1). So if you got rid of Miller, Yze, Warnock, PJ, Hughes, Frawley, Godfrey and Ward the side would be unbelievable. How we're going to find room for the 2-4 newish guys who played well today, I'll never know.

[Guest crannypete]

Is it too late to book into some sort of educational pre-school for this year?

it is true dude i have been failed by the educational system in this state i learned reading in jail not in school

[Guest crannypete]

Or a drug rehabilitation facility.

The funniest thing FannyPete will be your absence when we inflict another heavy defeat circa 2006.

dude i will still be around to take my medecine you should not really be worried about that loss half you team was out and the good ones mainly

also it is crannypete witha c r not fannypete that is a bit rude and mean

[Rolling Stone 158]

dude i will still be around to take my medecine you should not really be worried about that loss half you team was out and the good ones mainly

also it is crannypete witha c r not fannypete that is a bit rude and mean

We all know that trolls are cowards and crannypete is a good example. He's been hanging around the other sports and general discussion board but only came out of the closet when Hawthorn beat the Melbourne B side and only after it put up the shutters 40 minutes early. Had nothing to say in the lead up to the game.

Why don't you go back to posting on Hawk Headquarters where you'll have a more sympathetic audience cranny?

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

The most exciting part of the evening was hearing the final siren and not having any injured players on the ground.

It was obvious that we were not playing to win. The emphasis was on the 'run and carry', and Neale obviously wanted the players to implement a game-plan that involved a lot of handballs.

BIG RED SIGNING IN:

Finally someone who understands the most important part of last night....no injuries...Anyone who thought we were going to win from halfway through the third qtr obviously was not aware of our lack of match fitness...Hawthorn has played 3 serious intra-club matches we have played 60 minutes last week of kick and giggle to help Channel 7. Run as many laps as you want it is nothing compared to match fitness...Sitting near the bench last night you could see in the last qtr the guys coming on still looked like they were blowing hard...Just couple of observations, most already said:

-Green and CJ easily our best 2 players...Jones first half was excellent (although must learn to chase), Bruce needs to learn to hunt the ball again and not get easy pill that he then turns over.

-Buckley was super impressive and gives us speed and carry through the midfield. Would prefer to see him played rather than Yze, Ward or Brown.

- Both Jamar and PJ were rubbish...we should be doing all we can to fast track Neaves to see if he is up to it otherwise a ruckman needs to be drafted/traded for next year.

- A team with Godfrey Ward and Brown will not make the eight...You can have one but not all three....Browny for mine.

- Was impressed with the couple of things Frawley did but did not think Hughes was up to it. Did nothing but get some wide ball.

[Guest wheres_jacka]

Why do the commentators always call our number 14 by his full name "Lynden Dunn" and not just his surname "Dunn", like every other player? Much like Mal michael? That is the most important point to come from last night.

[Finks 19]

We all know that trolls are cowards and crannypete is a good example.

sorry it's taken me this long, we were having slight issues with our license upgrade and I wasn't able to ban people properly till this morning. Catch ya later cranny.

...and good point jacka.

[spud dullard 0]

....the run and carry debacle!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Freak, it doesn't suprise me that you were are gushing over Franklin. It was an Yze-esque game. Read into that what you want. But in doing so I will ask you to notice how many of his goals came as a direct result of a Melbourne turnover or error where he was found in space forward of the ball. Then ask yourself why he was there.

Agreed Bob.

Franklin has a bucket load of talent but I doubt he has the steel of mind or the attitude to consistently put it together. He look a million dollars when its all down hill skiing but I am sure he will disappear fotenwhen the heat. The gulf between his best and worst will frustrate and confuse the hell out of Hawks supporters.

No where near Judd. LOL.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

Adem Yze betrayed me last night.

I've been sticking up for him all off-season when all the high profile Demonlanders have been advocating a demotion from our best 22.

Unfortunetly I think they may be right, as his performance last night was terrible. A round 1 spot at Sandringham looks highly likely if he doesn't improve.

Also may I apologise to Chris Johnson. Before tonight I didn't consider him AFL standard. He was clearly our best last night (capped off by a ripper Super Goal and another nice set shot of a goal). I know 1 NAB Cup game doesn't make a summer, but gee he did everything right alst night.

OTHER POSITIVES

Brad Green was super also with 2 goals (1 super goal) and his lethal foot is back (Thank God!!!)

Cam Bruce floated in and out of the game, but kicked a classy goal and a nice mark on the Docklands wing.

Daniel Bell looks like he's got a defence role stiched up. Still gives you heart attacks but was very pleased.

Nathan Jones had an awesome 1st qtr, but faded badly. Needed McLean to help out. He couldn't do it all.

Mark Jamar was good in the ruck but did bugger all around the ground. Didn't take any trademark contested marks.

Robbo was back to his 2005 form marking everything and causing a menace to the opposition. However only ended up with 2 goals.

Neita did some inspirational chases and ended up with 2 goals. Will benefit more with better delivery from our A-Grade midfield.

Simon Buckley looked ok. Knows how to get the pill but has a bit of the "Daniel Bell disease" in that your nervous he'll get caught.

Nathan Brown was solid all game. Nothing specatular but always gets a heap of the ball, kicked a goal and missed another easy one. Should play round 1 and would be ahead of Bizzel, Godfrey and Ward in the veteran que.

Off to Mt Gambier next Saturday to take on Adelaide.

[old55 23,687]

The 2007 premier will either come out of the NAB Cup R1 winners:

Dogs, Freo, Cats, Port, Blues, Hawks, Lions, Roos

or the losers:

Eagles, Swans, Crows, Saints, Demons, Pies, Bombers, Tigers

I'd really like to see Jared Rivers play on their key forward. What's the point of being 3rd man if you're dragged out of the play and never get it? I'd even tolerate playing Bizzell as 3rd man if this forced the issue. Nathan Carroll is heart in mouth material.

Our rucks spanked theirs, I though PJ showed good commitment when it hit the deck and Jamar provides an aerial contest, but winning rucks doesn't mean everything. Nathan Jones is like steamed rice, you've gotta have it but you need the green curry chicken to go with it.