On 19/09/2019 at 09:56, DeeSpencer said:

Henderson and Jones were the only players from that list who weren't handy players before 26. There's guys who go up a level with a new side, new positions, injury luck, greater roles etc and Higgins is the best case for that but talent was never his issue. 

I'm not sure a guy like Frost who struggles with game sense and skills will drastically improve, he's had a consistent run of games and I assume there's not much left in his body to get better and I can't see him excelling in any other position. He could get slightly better in a few areas as he did this year and go from handy to better than handy but even if he went to the Hawks I'd be shocked if he was suddenly cured of the flaws in his game.

I just think it’s a rubbish argument that 99% of players hit their peak at 26 and don’t improve thereafter. That was the other poster’s claim.

In fact, if one were to look at this a bit more closely and crunch the numbers, I wouldn’t be surprised if the best years for the majority of players (and you can apply this to top-line soccer, basketball and cricket players too) are actually when they are between 26-30. And I’m talking about performance here, not talent.

Not saying Frosty is a superstar by any means, but I am saying his best years could be ahead of him.

  On 19/09/2019 at 10:37, goodwindees said:

Or, just like Collingwood has with Jeremy Howe, his next Club will improve his weakness and play to his strength.

Jeremy Howe was an absolute liability with ball in hand at the Dees, so much so that so many on this site wanted him gone. 

Well, where are those geniuses now given he has been an absolute star at the Pies. One of the first picked in a constant top of the ladder team. Pies immediately improved his kicking & decision making and he’s been a bona fide A Grader for them.

Watch Hawks do exactly the same with Frost. 

Excellent post and good comparison.  Plenty of haters wanted Howe gone after one indifferent year. He has been a star at magpie land 

  On 19/09/2019 at 11:32, spirit of norm smith said:

Excellent post and good comparison.  Plenty of haters wanted Howe gone after one indifferent year. He has been a star at magpie land 

Once he understood that Roos was right and he was a defender, Howe has been good.

Buckley tried him forward, even promised him games as a forward to get him across the line.

...but he realised why Roos played Howe back and broke the news to him.

You're a backman Jeremy.

To his credit he then worked hard at his game and position.

Was never going to happen at Melbourne, it took his childhood hero to put him straight in the end.

  On 19/09/2019 at 11:01, Demons11 said:

What a load of rubbish! 

Howes skills were a thousand times better than Frost.

You really have no idea. You can’t deny there were plenty of Demonland Posters wanting Howe out of the Club. My point was that Collingwood & Howe has made them look absolutely stupid. 

I would back Clarko to do something similar with Frost. 

  On 19/09/2019 at 11:48, rjay said:

Once he understood that Roos was right and he was a defender, Howe has been good.

Buckley tried him forward, even promised him games as a forward to get him across the line.

...but he realised why Roos played Howe back and broke the news to him.

You're a backman Jeremy.

To his credit he then worked hard at his game and position.

Was never going to happen at Melbourne, it took his childhood hero to put him straight in the end.

Fact still remains that Howe butchered the ball several times a game at Dees, however, butchers it twice a season at the Pies. 

Is it far superior coaching & development at the Pies?

I’m sure it is.  

  On 19/09/2019 at 12:07, goodwindees said:

You really have no idea. You can’t deny there were plenty of Demonland Posters wanting Howe out of the Club. My point was that Collingwood & Howe has made them look absolutely stupid. 

I would back Clarko to do something similar with Frost. 

all the reports have it that hawks have dropped out of interest, i thought?

north the team keen, as a replacement for scott thompson

Comparisons between Howe and Frost are ridiculous. I like Frosty but he is not half the player Howe is. One has game sense, is a natural defender and a real weapon with his marking. And it aint Frosty

Edited September 19, 20195 yr by binman

  On 19/09/2019 at 07:26, Unleash Hell said:

Maybe u should call his manager and get him to organise it.

Ask for 4% while you're there. You seem to be all over this negotiations stuff.

You’re right , no one is offering unsolicited opinion and points of view on here but me! Carry on!

  On 19/09/2019 at 09:11, Red and Blue realist said:

Depends if he's standing 25 metres away in between his man and the ball! Happened a lot this year. Yes he's not a bad shut down player but we've played it best in the last 2 seasons with a zone defence, so a pure shut down role doesn't fit that model.

Melbourne have a defensive model? You could have fooled me!

  On 19/09/2019 at 21:20, Kent said:

Melbourne have a defensive model? You could have fooled me!

Agree

  On 19/09/2019 at 21:20, Kent said:

Melbourne have a defensive model? You could have fooled me!

I think this touches on one of our biggest issues.  We were completely devoid of a functioning system, or the players to play it.  We saw a high D press, then a sweeper, then a zone, then a man off man (stand 25m away from your nominated player and point at something when he marks uncontested).  From our midfield all the way back our defense was horrible, and we truly had no consistent system, or the personnel to execute it.

if we get the key players back in 2020, and a defined defensive system, is there room for Frosty mcTurnover?  Hmm, not sure....

  On 19/09/2019 at 20:35, Superunknown said:

You’re right , no one is offering unsolicited opinion and points of view on here but me! Carry on!

Feel free to share, Im not sure why you think i care though.

You replied to my comment 

  On 19/09/2019 at 21:54, Unleash Hell said:

Feel free to share, Im not sure why you think i care though.

You replied to my comment 

But your replied to mine. Weeeeeee!!

  On 17/09/2019 at 08:11, Moonshadow said:

Don't think he has the brains, either.

Have you ever heard Mitch Robinson talk?

 

  On 19/09/2019 at 12:07, goodwindees said:

You really have no idea. You can’t deny there were plenty of Demonland Posters wanting Howe out of the Club. My point was that Collingwood & Howe has made them look absolutely stupid. 

I would back Clarko to do something similar with Frost. 

So why can’t MFC do it?

  On 20/09/2019 at 00:46, Big Carl said:

So why can’t MFC do it?

Because we....

 

 

....aren’t very good  

 

I have to laugh at this thread. The assumption that Frost will become a better player the instant he goes to Hawthorn is hilarious. Yes, they have a good track record of improving players, but that is at about 50/50 and most of those players were already decent when they went there. My example is Frawley; his kicking hasn't improved since he arrived at Hawthorn, and he has arguably a better footy brain and kick than Frost does.

Edited September 20, 20195 yr by AshleyH30

  On 20/09/2019 at 01:06, AshleyH30 said:

I have to laugh at this thread. The assumption that Frost will become a better player the instant he goes to Hawthorn is hilarious. Yes, they have a good track record of improving players, but that is at about 50/50 and most of those players were already decent when they went there. My example is Frawley; his kicking hasn't improved since he arrived at Hawthorn, and he has arguably a better footy brain and kick than Frost does.

Arguably a better footy brain and kick than Frosty? I can;t imagine anyone arguing with that proposition.  

I am bemused that we have a player who has height and pace and played every game, in this his best season with us and yet  we are not trying to keep him and while we allegedly extend a player like ANB, for 2 years, who is small, not fast, can’t mark, kick or handball and is one of several in his position and who has had a terrible season.

 

  On 19/09/2019 at 05:43, Brownie said:

I think there's a couple of key things that think we'd be mad to let him go.

- speed. The games getting faster. Jetta, may and Oscar aren't. He has great closing speed and breaks the lines. 

- size. Who do we have besides and injury prone May to use on the big forwards? Oh that's right, let's crunch Nev.

- improvement. He has consistently improved from being a ball watcher to being more accountable.  People keep bagging his disposal but if you watch the second half of this year, you can see he is now stopping and using the short kicks much more and being more accurate.

- effort. Something that was lacking at the tail end by quite a few others. He keeps putting in. He has the right attitude.

- durability. Nev is getting on, May and Lever are a bit shaky. Do we really want to risk losing one of our best backmen at the moment. He's stayed pretty fit throughout.

We are going to regret letting him go.

The way I see it May's closing speed is one of his key attributes.

  On 20/09/2019 at 01:15, binman said:

Arguably a better footy brain and kick than Frosty? I can;t imagine anyone arguing with that proposition.  

Said better, didn't say how much...

(As in not much better, but still better).

But you proved my point. Frawley went there and he hasn't improved like everyone is saying Frost would.

Edited September 20, 20195 yr by AshleyH30

  On 20/09/2019 at 01:16, Redleg said:

I am bemused that we have a player who has height and pace and played every game, in this his best season with us and yet  we are not trying to keep him and while we allegedly extend a player like ANB, for 2 years, who is small, not fast, can’t mark, kick or handball and is one of several in his position and who has had a terrible season.

 

 

This post above to me epitomises how little us as supporters generally know from the outside. Our judgments are based purely on what we can see, and we continually fail to consider that there may be extenuating factors that we’re unlikely to be privy to.

  On 20/09/2019 at 01:28, Mach5 said:

 

This post above to me epitomises how little us as supporters generally know from the outside. Our judgments are based purely on what we can see, and we continually fail to consider that there may be extenuating factors that we’re unlikely to be privy to.

Very likely, but in the case of the players we can see who are not AFL standard, what other reason would you keep them for? 

  On 20/09/2019 at 01:31, Redleg said:

Very likely, but in the case of the players we can see who are not AFL standard, what other reason would you keep them for? 

 

Give me nothing but players with work ethic and the right attitude, and the wheel will turn in time.

  On 20/09/2019 at 01:16, Redleg said:

I am bemused that we have a player who has height and pace and played every game, in this his best season with us and yet  we are not trying to keep him and while we allegedly extend a player like ANB, for 2 years, who is small, not fast, can’t mark, kick or handball and is one of several in his position and who has had a terrible season.

 

Just two points Red, firstly we don't know what we might get back in the form of a player or pick.  Secondly, if Frost is as good as many here are suggesting we'll have every team in the AFL fighting for his services.

Reality is KPB is probably one area of the ground we are well covered and we have deficiencies elsewhere.  Trade time is when you can fix these issues.  If he goes lets see what we get back, then we can judge.