51 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

i think it is quite simple - he doesn't have the tank to play 4 quarters. If he wants midfield time that will need to change.

Burgess, a bit of a look in the mirror and some adjustments on the track will hopefully fix that.

Should be a gun by now and showed he is close on occasions this season.

2020 is the year we need to see a big break out from the Traccattack in the mid field!  Potential game changer if he does.  Gus, Clarry and Tracc in the mid field!  Yes please.  Defensive lock down work from Viney on some of the Opp's big stars like Dusty, Danger, Pendles and the Bont and we get ourselves competitive once more.

Up and firing at their best with some game style and structural adjustments with some outside run added to the mix and could take us into a finals series.

But then there's always our abysmal forward line / craft.

Boy do we have some work to do on list and other factors.  Should be a very hectic off season!

He had a better season than 90% of our list.  

Absolutely no need to consider trading him.

I do agree that, for him to have more midfield time, that he needs to build on his tank and midfield craft a little, but that can be worked on.

17 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

He had a better season than 90% of our list.  

Absolutely no need to consider trading him.

I do agree that, for him to have more midfield time, that he needs to build on his tank and midfield craft a little, but that can be worked on.

Agree, plus i fear the return on a trade would probably surprise most of us here, and not in a good way

18 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

He had a better season than 90% of our list.  

Absolutely no need to consider trading him.

I do agree that, for him to have more midfield time, that he needs to build on his tank and midfield craft a little, but that can be worked on.

Statistically his 2019 was marginally worse than his 2018. His 2018 like his 2017 and 2016 was actually pretty humdrum considering all the hype. 

People overrate Petracca based on his output. Has he ever taken a game by the scruff and seriously stamped himself as a match winner? Five seasons in we’ve yet to see it. 

Like another Dees no.2 draft pick Colin Sylvia before him, CP5’s ‘big breakout year’ is looking more and more like a mirage in the desert.

This clubs record of developing top draft picks is just appalling.

37 minutes ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Statistically his 2019 was marginally worse than his 2018. His 2018 like his 2017 and 2016 was actually pretty humdrum considering all the hype. 

People overrate Petracca based on his output. Has he ever taken a game by the scruff and seriously stamped himself as a match winner? Five seasons in we’ve yet to see it. 

Like another Dees no.2 draft pick Colin Sylvia before him, CP5’s ‘big breakout year’ is looking more and more like a mirage in the desert.

Don't agree.  There are things that stats can tell you and things they can't.

Petracca is a player with a rare blend of strength and balance.  

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

He had a better season than 90% of our list.  

Absolutely no need to consider trading him.

I do agree that, for him to have more midfield time, that he needs to build on his tank and midfield craft a little, but that can be worked on.

Trac was one player who could say he improved and can hold his head up after the year 

Would be ridiculous to entertain any trade deal 

yes he needs to build up his motor to play more midfield time but I feel he will still be a burst type midfielder and not a Josh Kelly or Tom Scully marathon running midfielder 

pure madness to even consider trading out Trac, or even Brayshaw or Viney

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Like another Dees no.2 draft pick Colin Sylvia before him, CP5’s ‘big breakout year’ is looking more and more like a mirage in the desert.

Totally different player and nothing like Silvia, Trac is a very good AFL player now.

He doesn't need the big breakout year.

Your bias is blinding you 'Matsuo'.

3 hours ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

If there areTrade Brayshaw and Trade Viney threads then there can be a Trade Petracca thread. 

Just depends on whether you believe he’s genuinely going to get any better or not. Purely statistically he is treading water season upon season:

https://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2626

Those are average numbers. Disappointing really for a number 2 draft pick after his fifth season.

I’ve seen cases made where some of our supporters put him in the top ten forwards in the competition, which is plainly ridiculous. From my vantage point he’s a player who continues to operate off the unearned hype of media adulation, a player with serious flaws (especially with his kicking action) which may never correct themselves. 

I say sell now while he still has value. We’d get a pick from 8 - 15 for him which we could use on a classy outside runner ... or maybe even young Fischer McAsey to bolster our key forward stocks.

Something has always been a bit off key about Petracca IMO. Work ethic, attitude, drive to succeed ... can’t quite put my finger on it but something has never quite sit right looking on.

That is a firm no to user name and post content!

Petracca will be boosted by actually playing running half back flankers and wingers who he can kick to in space when he wins the ball. His passing can be lethal.

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Statistically his 2019 was marginally worse than his 2018. His 2018 like his 2017 and 2016 was actually pretty humdrum considering all the hype. 

People overrate Petracca based on his output. Has he ever taken a game by the scruff and seriously stamped himself as a match winner? Five seasons in we’ve yet to see it. 

Like another Dees no.2 draft pick Colin Sylvia before him, CP5’s ‘big breakout year’ is looking more and more like a mirage in the desert.

Correct.  10% off last year but moved up the rankings by 3 places.  Tended to play the first half as a HHF looking to mop up ground balls and score (conversion poor so that part didn't factor in much) so might explain part of that drop off statistically vs a little more work between the arcs last season, racking up a few more numbers?  In a horrible year where many fell away around him i would say he held his own.  But yes, this year we would want it to be the year of the Traccattack.  The time is now.

 

47 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Don't agree.  There are things that stats can tell you and things they can't.

Petracca is a player with a rare blend of strength and balance.  

Also correct on both counts but, as NS just posted, he needs a bigger tank. Certainly not expecting a T$ or Kelly type motor but the tank needs improving nonetheless.  If Burgess, the FD and Tracc himself don't find this in the off season then shame on them all.  It's easily the most obvious change that needs to be added to his game and to convert that explosive power & balance into more damaging mid field minutes in 2020 and beyond.

Edited September 3, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

Trac averaged 20 touches and a goal this year, was in the top 5 general forwards in the league, not a bad effort in a team that couldn't score and finished 17. 

Petracca is a very good AFL player with the potential to make the jump to being a superstar and it's not far off. 

I wouldn't be trading him under any circumstances.

Burgess will be the making or breaking of several players next year. 

They will either meet his expectations and be much better footballers for it or not be able to cut the mustard. We will see the really committed, driven, personally motivated  players rise to the top.

If Trac is up for it he'll be a top 10 in the league player 

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Statistically his 2019 was marginally worse than his 2018. His 2018 like his 2017 and 2016 was actually pretty humdrum considering all the hype. 

People overrate Petracca based on his output. Has he ever taken a game by the scruff and seriously stamped himself as a match winner? Five seasons in we’ve yet to see it. 

Like another Dees no.2 draft pick Colin Sylvia before him, CP5’s ‘big breakout year’ is looking more and more like a mirage in the desert.

 

Can you stop making burner accounts mate? I’m sick of having to add new ones to my ignore list.

Yes, I’m aware of the irony.

Good player, must keep, next step with improved fitness is to get to be very good player consistently. A neutral observer friend, Hawks fan watched him exclusively for a quarter in our last game. Said he never got out of a quick jog. Hawks supporters expect  and get high standards. 

4 hours ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

I say sell now while he still has value. We’d get a pick from 8 - 15 for him which we could use on a classy outside runner ... or maybe even young Fischer McAsey to bolster our key forward stocks.

 

Not enough return IMO.

Pick 5 or a regular starter in the All Australian for Petracca.

I'm not interested in making other clubs better by trading away our assets.

And for comparisons sake, the best player in the AFL in my opinion (Dusty) averaged 24 touches and kicked 23 goals in his fourth season. Petracca averaged 19 touches and kicked 22 goals (this year) in his fourth season and probably spent less minutes on the ball than DM.

Edited September 3, 20195 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

28 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

Can you stop making burner accounts mate? I’m sick of having to add new ones to my ignore list.

Yes, I’m aware of the irony.

10 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Not enough return IMO.

Pick 5 or a regular starter in the All Australian for Petracca.

Delusional.

You’re talking about a player who’s yet to even come close to the top 5 of his own club’s best and fairest. Has even come in the top 10 in the Bluey? I’d be surprised.

Petracca’s numbers actually DECREASED thus year compared to his 2018.

I think Christian was ok this year, without being great, however, still down on overall projected development.

What I noticed as the year went on was his intent. He was taking on players, shrugging tackles, and, his overall energy and aggression at the contest was noticeably different. Previously he would float around the contest like a basketballer, so, i'm hoping he is starting to realize where his value lies. 

A super fit Petracca (no I'm not saying he's fat) with a clear mind, and, given the mandate to take the game by the ??'s could be just what we need....along with a lower ball drop...

40 minutes ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Delusional.

You’re talking about a player who’s yet to even come close to the top 5 of his own club’s best and fairest. Has even come in the top 10 in the Bluey? I’d be surprised.

Petracca’s numbers actually DECREASED thus year compared to his 2018.

What numbers? A slight dip in uncontested possessions, hardly a surprise given the team couldn't move the ball nearly as well this year as last.

AFL players to average 20 disposals, 10 contested possessions and 1 goal a game this year: Dangerfield and Gray. Petracca was next best. That's rare company.

His disposal efficiency improved - in particular his field kicking was far sharper. His goal kicking got better after an awful start and he might be working towards a long term fix. He doubled his inside 50 tackles. His score involvements only dipped from 6.7 to 6 which is actually a great achievement given how much the rest of the sides score involvements dropped off. 

There's plenty of stats to back up his improvement as well as just watching the games.

 

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Delusional.

You’re talking about a player who’s yet to even come close to the top 5 of his own club’s best and fairest. Has even come in the top 10 in the Bluey? I’d be surprised.

Petracca’s numbers actually DECREASED thus year compared to his 2018.

So by your measurement he's worth a 3rd rounder considering your continued denigration of him. Certainly wouldn't bet a mid teens pick that you suggested.

Therefore I can't see the point in trading him.

4 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

So by your measurement he's worth a 3rd rounder considering your continued denigration of him. Certainly wouldn't bet a mid teens pick that you suggested.

Therefore I can't see the point in trading him.

A club still sold on Petracca’s hype and potential would cough up a pick between 8 - 18 right now. Can’t say that’ll be the case twelve months from now.

Sell while there’s still value there.

Bottom line is that there is very little chance of Gus, Trac or Viney being moved on during this trade period.   You can argue that anyone can be traded for the right price, but the club would expect a Godfather offer for any of these three and unless someone is dumb enough to do it, they won't be going anywhere.  Even if they agitate for a move, which I doubt will happen, I can't see the club moving any of these guys on unless clubs pay up big time.

I think the club will aim to get the players fit, change up the assistant coaching situation and look to remove more dead wood and add a little more class where we can.  Outside of that I can't see us doing a whole lot more for 2020.

 

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Bottom line is that there is very little chance of Gus, Trac or Viney being moved on during this trade period.   You can argue that anyone can be traded for the right price, but the club would expect a Godfather offer for any of these three and unless someone is dumb enough to do it, they won't be going anywhere.  Even if they agitate for a move, which I doubt will happen, I can't see the club moving any of these guys on unless clubs pay up big time.

I think the club will aim to get the players fit, change up the assistant coaching situation and look to remove more dead wood and add a little more class where we can.  Outside of that I can't see us doing a whole lot more for 2020.

 

I know this is a CP5 thread, but I do wonder who, or what sort of club aside from GC would be interested in Viney... perhaps Port? In which case you're right - he won't be moving. 

I for one would prefer out of Viney, Harmes, Gus, Trac and Oliver, for Viney to be moved on, purely from my perception of his limited skill set. And I am sure people will speak about the intangibles (which I value due to the workspace I am in), nonetheless, we need some skill and silk.

Edited September 3, 20195 yr by Engorged Onion

2 hours ago, Lace Out said:

I think Christian was ok this year, without being great, however, still down on overall projected development.

What I noticed as the year went on was his intent. He was taking on players, shrugging tackles, and, his overall energy and aggression at the contest was noticeably different. Previously he would float around the contest like a basketballer, so, i'm hoping he is starting to realize where his value lies. 

A super fit Petracca (no I'm not saying he's fat) with a clear mind, and, given the mandate to take the game by the ??'s could be just what we need....along with a lower ball drop...

Agree on all points

It's funny that one of the rumours on here about his supposed discontentment was that he he was being asked to rein in his nstural attacking flair.

Who knows if that is true (being asked to curb his flair, not the rumour of discontentment) but personally I think they should encourage him to he more selfish and go for more goals.

 

Edited September 3, 20195 yr by binman