With the season shot I feel we need to continue experimenting with our list a little with an eye to next season. The last two weeks we have gone with two ruckmen in the same side and I think it is already clear that neither are good enough as forwards to go with in our best 22 over the long term. Harrison Petty has been pretty good as a target in both games as a forward, but he looks more natural to me in defence given his lack of pace.

As such, I hope we play Steven May as a forward for the rest of the season. We already know May is a gun defender but let's see if he can be the solution in our forward line alongside TMac for 2020. This is our biggest weakness and, while we all want Sam Weideman to take the next step, we need to see if May can actually give us a better return as a forward.

Personally, I think our backline already has good depth with Frost, Lever, Jetta, Hibberd, Salem, Hore, Jones, OMac and Petty. While May obviously makes the defence better, he is potentially more value at the other end.

Is this like when Frawley was played forward to 'experiment' even though he was off to Hawthorn - and it aided us getting higher draft picks?

Not adverse to throwing him forward in patches but we recruited him as a defender, he possibly has the best skill of our defenders (Salem in front) he needs to find his place in the team, he needs the next 5 weeks to gel with Lever and co. We need to use this time wisely to settle our defence. He is the cornerstone of that now, he compliments Frost beautifully. 

4 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

 he compliments Frost beautifully. 

And Frost needs all the compliments he can get!  LOL  (Although, May wasn't too complimentary to poor ole Frosty a coupla weeks back when Frosty pulled one of his brain fades!)

8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Is this like when Frawley was played forward to 'experiment' even though he was off to Hawthorn - and it aided us getting higher draft picks?

Nothing like it.

Yes, just as we get some stability down back, we send our prized defensive recruit forward...

FMD this season can't end soon enough.

The continuity and time of May and Lever together down back for the rest of the year is huge for us in our push for a stronger 2020. they need to play down there together as much as they possibly can for the rest of this year. 

i don't mind the idea of trialing Oscar McDonald down there. 

Why the [censored] would any club not tanking put their best key defended in the forward line???

Madness, I say.

3 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

The continuity and time of May and Lever together down back for the rest of the year is huge for us in our push for a stronger 2020. they need to play down there together as much as they possibly can for the rest of this year. 

i don't mind the idea of trialing Oscar McDonald down there. 

Yes, worth a try as I think he will not get back into defence unless we have plenty of injuries there.

A quality back six unit can only be formed when the individuals comprised play a significant amount of game-time together. 

May and Lever have played what, three games together?

We need them to play every game possible together and that goes for Jetta, Hibberd and Frost too (if he's going to play that third tall).

IMO it would be absolutely ludicrous to play May forward with a handful of games to go when we're sitting 17th on the ladder.

Edited July 24, 20195 yr by stevethemanjordan

15 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Why the [censored] would any club not tanking put their best key defended in the forward line???

Madness, I say.

Not agreeing with the idea of May forward, but were we tanking last year when TMac was put forward?

3 minutes ago, sue said:

Not agreeing with the idea of May forward, but were we tanking last year when TMac was put forward?

Was Tmac put forward at the end of the 2018 season when we were vying for pick 1, 2 or 3? 

Most weeks atm our backline is the only thing stopping us from getting belted beyond Mars 

Lever, May, Hibberd, Frost, Jetta, Lockhart, Salem and co need some continuity and game time together.  The remaining rounds are invaluable in ensuring that we hit Round 1 2020 with all guns firing.

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

With the season shot I feel we need to continue experimenting with our list a little with an eye to next season. The last two weeks we have gone with two ruckmen in the same side and I think it is already clear that neither are good enough as forwards to go with in our best 22 over the long term. Harrison Petty has been pretty good as a target in both games as a forward, but he looks more natural to me in defence given his lack of pace.

As such, I hope we play Steven May as a forward for the rest of the season. We already know May is a gun defender but let's see if he can be the solution in our forward line alongside TMac for 2020. This is our biggest weakness and, while we all want Sam Weideman to take the next step, we need to see if May can actually give us a better return as a forward.

Personally, I think our backline already has good depth with Frost, Lever, Jetta, Hibberd, Salem, Hore, Jones, OMac and Petty. While May obviously makes the defence better, he is potentially more value at the other end.

The elephant in the room for 2020... will the combo of T-Mac & Weids be potent enough to make a difference in 2020 on their own?

Personally i don't believe either are talented / mobile / effective enough (accuracy/class/poise) in front of the big sticks to handle/take the No.1 & No.2 roles.  At best they are serviceable in the No.2 & 3 spots.

So who are we getting in, if anyone, to take the No.1 role?  In an ideal Disney  World thats GWS's Cameron but ain't gonna happen.

So...who else is a 'realistic' genuine KPF contender we might snag guys and gals? 

Assuming we can't get anyone decent FT's option may not be so far fetched.  This bloke can play.  Has a decent roost on him and hits.a pack hard.  Leads by example, plays with agro / venom and can take an overhead.  Exactly what is missing for us inside 50 right now.  Would make others stand tall also.  Can he get fit / mobile enough to play this role out effectively week to week though in 2020?  Accuracy?  All things that could be trialed in the remaining games.

We also need at least one genuine small speedy crumber with class and an outsider in the mid field with break away pace and fimish.

I'm fine with experimenting but personally i don't think we can afford to until Hore returns.  He is going to be that good in the next few years i reckon he will easily take over the main 'rock' role in defense with Frostmeister and Lever alongside

IF we aren't chasing a serious KPF for 2020 to fill the main role (which would be madness IMO) or can't snag one, i don't mind it at all.  Worth a trial, but only after Hore returns.

Edited July 24, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

We were reportedly interested in luring Keath from Adelaide across as a key defender, play May forward alongside TMAC, would be a great outcome IMO. 

Nope for mine.  We want as many games with him commanding the back half, building the killer combo with Lever and the other defenders.  When the heat is on, every moment together playing and working together will pay off.  Swing him forward for 10 mins here and there to switch things up, but not as a full time positional shift.

Our forward line problems will not be solved by throwing May forward.  We are seeing that we have options (Frittata, and even Petty) and can even think about Smith, Smith and even Kielty if they shape up.  Agree we need to bolster our stocks - maybe Preuss will learn to mark and build a tank over the summer ans surprise as that elusive forward pocket option????

14 minutes ago, Vineytime said:

We were reportedly interested in luring Keath from Adelaide across as a key defender, play May forward alongside TMAC, would be a great outcome IMO. 

When we have every defender in the league on our list, no one will be able to stop our potent forward line!

Can you win a premiership with:

Option A: May, Lever and Frost down back. Tom McDonald, Weid, Melksham forward

Option B: Frost, Lever, Petty? down back. Tom McDonald, May, Melksham forward

I'd say it's yes to A and no to B.

Goals are created by intercepts and turnovers. When you pressure a side in to a mistake and create a mismatch or open man. 

Good key defenders who don't allow mistakes or clean them up and the allow for or create intercepts up the ground save more goals than good forwards who struggle to get one on ones or mismatches create.

If the Weid doesn't make it then we need a replacement (and we absolutely need depth) and we need to upgrade the outside run and skill, but at least in the short term we don't need to be making desperate changes to the key forward stocks.

12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Can you win a premiership with:

Option A: May, Lever and Frost down back. Tom McDonald, Weid, Melksham forward

Option B: Frost, Lever, Petty? down back. Tom McDonald, May, Melksham forward

I'd say it's yes to A and no to B.

Goals are created by intercepts and turnovers. When you pressure a side in to a mistake and create a mismatch or open man. 

Good key defenders who don't allow mistakes or clean them up and the allow for or create intercepts up the ground save more goals than good forwards who struggle to get one on ones or mismatches create.

If the Weid doesn't make it then we need a replacement (and we absolutely need depth) and we need to upgrade the outside run and skill, but at least in the short term we don't need to be making desperate changes to the key forward stocks.

You left Hore out DS.  He is going to be a rock / fabulous defender down back, potentially better than Frost/Lever and certainly better than Petty in a defensive role IMV.

Have him ranked No.8 to Rnd 18 ahead of Frost (12th) & May (14th) as a rookie in his first season in a near perfect [censored] storm.  Imagine if we actually start performing/winning!!

A May, T-Mac, Melk forward line with some other decent smalls bottom feeding and Hore included down back makes B look more than a viable proposition for a decent trial IMO.

3 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

You left Hore out DS.  He is going to be a rock / fabulous defender down back, potentially better than Frost/Lever and certainly better than Petty in a defensive role IMV.

Have him ranked No.8 to Rnd 18 ahead of Frost (12th) & May (14th) as a rookie in his first season in a near perfect [censored] storm.  Imagine if we actually start performing/winning!!

A May, T-Mac, Melk forward line with some other decent smalls bottom feeding and Hore included down back makes B look more than a viable proposition for a decent trial IMO.

I see him as an important part of the backline and particularly good cover for Lever in an intercepting role but unless Lever comes back stronger and more aggressive in one on ones I don't think Frost/Lever is enough as the key talls. Maybe that smaller combination works, or maybe it's Petty or even Oscar, there's lots of ways to get a decent enough backline, but May's the only guy who has speed, strength, size and smarts to really build a backline around. 

I do not think we can be seen doing that, but not against the occasional and timely run there to add a spark.

21 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I see him as an important part of the backline and particularly good cover for Lever in an intercepting role but unless Lever comes back stronger and more aggressive in one on ones I don't think Frost/Lever is enough as the key talls. Maybe that smaller combination works, or maybe it's Petty or even Oscar, there's lots of ways to get a decent enough backline, but May's the only guy who has speed, strength, size and smarts to really build a backline around. 

I still think Frost / Hore / Lever as the core to allow for a short trial of May up forward is fine for the remainder of the year IF/when Marty makes it back DS.

All outcomes in terms of who plays where for 2020 and onwards (short-/medium term) based on who does what during any trial period for the remainder of this season.  Might be a complete flop and May ends up as a key defender as planned or we might not need him up forward if we can recruit a genuine KPF to take over the No.1 mantle and take the heat off T-Mac and/or the Weid for 2020 and beyond.

P.S. If nothing else, surely as a coach you would want to at least 'see' if May shows something up forward this season so you know what options you 'might' have up forward in 2020 and with the big fella?  Can we swing him there if required?  Is he more than just a bit part role player/pinch hitter if needed?  Could he be a surprise packet that takes the forward line by the scruff of the neck and turns our fortunes around in 2020 (onwards)?  The latter is probably far fetched but still, worth a look IMO.

Edited July 24, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

Personally I thinke very player who is performing in their current position and needs time to build a relationship with their teammates in a complex and team-oriented part of the ground where they excel, and which was a significant vulnerability right up until, oh, pretty much when they became available there after a bout of injury, should be moved to a different position.