On 26/06/2019 at 09:11, demonstone said:

So who will the new whipping boy be with Misson gone?  What poor sod will cop the blame for everything that goes wrong?

 

  On 26/06/2019 at 09:16, chook fowler said:

Pert

Oscar McD is still there for those so inclined to put down ?

  On 26/06/2019 at 11:22, bush demon said:

You obviously missed the 1956 season...

That's a bit before my time BD.  A bunch of mostly tall skinny "twiggy Dunn" gentlemanly types running around in baggy shorts kicking drop kicks to one another!?  Happy to go back to that if it results in our first AFL silverware though!

The only knock on Vanders are his finishing skills. He brings great intensity and physicality, in the same vein as Viney. I really hope he gets over his injuries and gets a bit of continuity as he has a lot to offer.

Re Kent, it may have been a case that given his and AVB’s history of injuries we couldn’t afford to carry both. Perhaps we were willing to let AVB go to the Swans up until Kent took the offer from the Saints, who knows. As previously posted, the offer was three years versus ours of one. Kent has a young family so can’t blame the guy. 

AVB is a ripper when fit, I hope he gets back on the park next season. 

Harder than a cat"s head, but feet like caged chook

  On 26/06/2019 at 04:47, pitmaster said:

I was sorry to see Kent go like others, but he has been unusually resilient for the Saints. He really never had a good run at it with us. 

Reports filtering through Kent has gone down with an injury during match simulation at Saints training. Hope it’s not too bad. 

Must have put the moz on him, Kent now out for the rest of the year (quad injury).

 

  On 26/06/2019 at 04:25, poita said:

I am not a massive fan of Aaron Vandenberg as a player, but I can certainly accept that some of our best football in 2018 was played when he was in the side late in the season.

By the end of this season AVB will have played just 7 out of 69 AFL games across three seasons, an appalling return for a player who will be 28 before next season starts.

Give that, I am surprised at the radio silence surrounding his continued absence and ongoing injury issues. I would like to know:

1. Is AVB's current injury related to overuse or to a single, unavoidable event? Did we push him too hard to return in 2018, or again through the 2019 preseason?

2. Given AVB's injury history and Sydney's reported interest last year, on what basis did we offer him a three year contract? Was this in any way conditional on his continued fitness?

3. Did giving AVB a long term contract, presumably on decent money, affect our ability to retain either Tyson or Kent?

4. When did it become apparent that AVB would take little or no part in this season, as the initial reports were that he would return sooner rather than later (ie within weeks, not months)? Why have members not been kept better informed on his progress.

5. Has there been any progress made since round 1? Will AVB be able to do a full pre season, or are we still completely in the dark as to what the problem is?

6. Is AVB still in Melbourne doing rehab, or is he off working in his family business?

7. At what point do we consider paying out AVB's contract and freeing up a list position if he can't get back on the training track?

It showed today just how injury prone Kent is.  Unfortunate he is done for the year 

  On 26/06/2019 at 13:02, Ethan Tremblay said:

Re Kent, it may have been a case that given his and AVB’s history of injuries we couldn’t afford to carry both. Perhaps we were willing to let AVB go to the Swans up until Kent took the offer from the Saints, who knows. As previously posted, the offer was three years versus ours of one. Kent has a young family so can’t blame the guy. 

AVB is a ripper when fit, I hope he gets back on the park next season. 

He won’t.

  On 26/06/2019 at 12:51, Rusty Nails said:

That's a bit before my time BD.  A bunch of mostly tall skinny "twiggy Dunn" gentlemanly types running around in baggy shorts kicking drop kicks to one another!?  Happy to go back to that if it results in our first AFL silverware though!

Not many "gentlemany types" in that team.  Plenty in the Members, but on the field we had plumbers and builders and tradies. A few toffs, but hard. All of them - hard.

Vanders played a huge part in us making the finals and winning 2. I have real concerns this guys body just can’t end up to the rigours if AFL footy. Just keeps breaking down. I have similar concerns with Maynard and potentially Joel and Tim Smith.  I hope I’m wrong. 

  On 27/06/2019 at 12:42, frankie_d said:

Not many "gentlemany types" in that team.  Plenty in the Members, but on the field we had plumbers and builders and tradies. A few toffs, but hard. All of them - hard.

Fair enough FD.  I only have a bit of scratchy video 8 footage to go by.

  On 27/06/2019 at 22:31, Hunt29 said:

Vanders played a huge part in us making the finals and winning 2. I have real concerns this guys body just can’t end up to the rigours if AFL footy. Just keeps breaking down. I have similar concerns with Maynard and potentially Joel and Tim Smith.  I hope I’m wrong. 

You're concerned about it?  I'm concerned that you're pinning some of our hopes on four players that I really aren't anywhere near our best 22 when fit.  And if they are, our list is a lot more shallow than I thought.

I think the drafting/reliance of these types of players is part of the reason that we are going terrible this year.  They just aren't good enough, even when fit.  I feel that we have gone all-in on trading out top picks for the likes of Lever and May, then tried to get some ready-made state level/mature-age recruits in to have an immediate impact as depth.  Mark my word, this will bite us on the [censored] in 5-10 years if we're not very astute with our recruiting in the next 2-3 years.

We need quality kids coming through in the next couple of years, not mature age RTGs from the state leagues or project players coming through the Cat B rookie pathways that have a very low ceiling.

  On 27/06/2019 at 12:42, frankie_d said:

Not many "gentlemany types" in that team.  Plenty in the Members, but on the field we had plumbers and builders and tradies. A few toffs, but hard. All of them - hard.

Hard, tough as nails, goers. To make that team, you had to be the best in all regards. That is what made the team so great. What occurred on the field, stayed on the field. No second thoughts at all. Obedient - if the Coach said do this, and Ronald Dale nodded, it was done. Some of them were professionals, doctors, lawyers, pollies. They let of steam on Saturday arvo on the footy field. Legends of which to be proud. 

  On 26/06/2019 at 13:02, Ethan Tremblay said:

Re Kent, it may have been a case that given his and AVB’s history of injuries we couldn’t afford to carry both. Perhaps we were willing to let AVB go to the Swans up until Kent took the offer from the Saints, who knows. As previously posted, the offer was three years versus ours of one. Kent has a young family so can’t blame the guy. 

AVB is a ripper when fit, I hope he gets back on the park next season. 

 

  On 27/06/2019 at 12:15, Skin Deeamond said:

He won’t.

SD -  I will try to remember your link when I next need an expert medical opinion.  Thanks

  On 28/06/2019 at 05:44, The Chazz said:

You're concerned about it?  I'm concerned that you're pinning some of our hopes on four players that I really aren't anywhere near our best 22 when fit.  And if they are, our list is a lot more shallow than I thought.

I think the drafting/reliance of these types of players is part of the reason that we are going terrible this year.  They just aren't good enough, even when fit.  I feel that we have gone all-in on trading out top picks for the likes of Lever and May, then tried to get some ready-made state level/mature-age recruits in to have an immediate impact as depth.  Mark my word, this will bite us on the [censored] in 5-10 years if we're not very astute with our recruiting in the next 2-3 years.

We need quality kids coming through in the next couple of years, not mature age RTGs from the state leagues or project players coming through the Cat B rookie pathways that have a very low ceiling.

AVB is definitely best 22 material when fit.  Joel Smith has shown glimpses that he could definitely mature into it and despite some reservations I've previouly had, Tim Smith has suggested to me this year that he could also has potential to play a role in a successful team.  The only one of those I have significant doubts about is Maynard and he cost us next to nothing, as did all those mentioned.  I haven't seen to many superstars develop out of pick 80, but the success rate out of rookie/mature age picks is through the roof respectively across the AFL.  There is value there for the picking.

That all said, I'm absolutely in favour of us holding onto early draft picks and getting some really good young kids into the side as well, unless it was the deal of the century like picking up a Patrick Cripps from Carlton somehow  (which is never going to happen, but whats the harm in dreaming).  A ballanced approach is what we need, both to drafting and in assessing our recruiting.

  On 28/06/2019 at 08:01, Deemania since 56 said:

Hard, tough as nails, goers. To make that team, you had to be the best in all regards. That is what made the team so great. What occurred on the field, stayed on the field. No second thoughts at all. Obedient - if the Coach said do this, and Ronald Dale nodded, it was done. Some of them were professionals, doctors, lawyers, pollies. They let of steam on Saturday arvo on the footy field. Legends of which to be proud. 

This is how I want our current crop to be remembered and I don't think they are far off it.

  On 28/06/2019 at 05:44, The Chazz said:

You're concerned about it?  I'm concerned that you're pinning some of our hopes on four players that I really aren't anywhere near our best 22 when fit.  And if they are, our list is a lot more shallow than I thought.

I think the drafting/reliance of these types of players is part of the reason that we are going terrible this year.  They just aren't good enough, even when fit.  I feel that we have gone all-in on trading out top picks for the likes of Lever and May, then tried to get some ready-made state level/mature-age recruits in to have an immediate impact as depth.  Mark my word, this will bite us on the [censored] in 5-10 years if we're not very astute with our recruiting in the next 2-3 years.

We need quality kids coming through in the next couple of years, not mature age RTGs from the state leagues or project players coming through the Cat B rookie pathways that have a very low ceiling.

Great post Chazz. 

For both AVB and the MFC's sake, I'm just hoping that he can make a full recovery and play some good footy for us over the next few years.

The MFC has had way more of it's fair share of career ending or debilitating injuries to gun players over the past 30 or so years - Trengove, Bartram, Clarke, Lyon, Schartz, Jackovich being the ones that most readily come to mind.  Throw in guys like Wonnameri, Jurrah, Sean Charles and Martin Pike that had to leave the club for personal reasons and I almost cry at all the wasted tallent we have had over the years that could have elivated us to multiple premierships in that time had we got the management of them right.

  On 28/06/2019 at 05:44, The Chazz said:

You're concerned about it?  I'm concerned that you're pinning some of our hopes on four players that I really aren't anywhere near our best 22 when fit.  And if they are, our list is a lot more shallow than I thought.

I think the drafting/reliance of these types of players is part of the reason that we are going terrible this year.  They just aren't good enough, even when fit.  I feel that we have gone all-in on trading out top picks for the likes of Lever and May, then tried to get some ready-made state level/mature-age recruits in to have an immediate impact as depth.  Mark my word, this will bite us on the [censored] in 5-10 years if we're not very astute with our recruiting in the next 2-3 years.

We need quality kids coming through in the next couple of years, not mature age RTGs from the state leagues or project players coming through the Cat B rookie pathways that have a very low ceiling.

The draft is a lottery. We picked lots of top picks and ended up with duds. Cale Morton, Jimmy Toumpas, Jordan Gysberts, etc, etc. The guys that select the players and do the trades have done much better over the past couple of years.

  On 28/06/2019 at 05:44, The Chazz said:

You're concerned about it?  I'm concerned that you're pinning some of our hopes on four players that I really aren't anywhere near our best 22 when fit.  And if they are, our list is a lot more shallow than I thought.

I think the drafting/reliance of these types of players is part of the reason that we are going terrible this year.  They just aren't good enough, even when fit.  I feel that we have gone all-in on trading out top picks for the likes of Lever and May, then tried to get some ready-made state level/mature-age recruits in to have an immediate impact as depth.  Mark my word, this will bite us on the [censored] in 5-10 years if we're not very astute with our recruiting in the next 2-3 years.

We need quality kids coming through in the next couple of years, not mature age RTGs from the state leagues or project players coming through the Cat B rookie pathways that have a very low ceiling.

Whilst I very much agree that our lack of top end picks could hurt us in a the distant future, I also think that at some stage you have to stop looking to the future and look at the now and have a genuine crack at a flag.

 

  On 28/06/2019 at 23:15, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

For both AVB and the MFC's sake, I'm just hoping that he can make a full recovery and play some good footy for us over the next few years.

The MFC has had way more of it's fair share of career ending or debilitating injuries to gun players over the past 30 or so years - Trengove, Bartram, Clarke, Lyon, Schartz, Jackovich being the ones that most readily come to mind.  Throw in guys like Wonnameri, Jurrah, Sean Charles and Martin Pike that had to leave the club for personal reasons and I almost cry at all the wasted tallent we have had over the years that could have elivated us to multiple premierships in that time had we got the management of them right.

So many questions in our minds regarding outstanding players. It makes you shudder looking back.

  On 28/06/2019 at 05:44, The Chazz said:

You're concerned about it?  I'm concerned that you're pinning some of our hopes on four players that I really aren't anywhere near our best 22 when fit.  And if they are, our list is a lot more shallow than I thought.

I think the drafting/reliance of these types of players is part of the reason that we are going terrible this year.  They just aren't good enough, even when fit.  I feel that we have gone all-in on trading out top picks for the likes of Lever and May, then tried to get some ready-made state level/mature-age recruits in to have an immediate impact as depth.  Mark my word, this will bite us on the [censored] in 5-10 years if we're not very astute with our recruiting in the next 2-3 years.

We need quality kids coming through in the next couple of years, not mature age RTGs from the state leagues or project players coming through the Cat B rookie pathways that have a very low ceiling.

I certainly rate AVB best 22. Joel Smith has massive potential. Maynard wouldn’t be getting games. Tim Smith has never had a decent stretch without injury. 

Maybe it’s a figure of speech. But it’s about concerns with recruiting guys whose bodies can’t handle the rigorous AFL training. And having multiple players on the list at one stage in this boat. Not necessarily concerned these guys all missing is costing us games. 

I take your point about getting in young talent. We need to use our first this year to bring in elite talent. 

Venders has basically had his heel rebuilt...can’t pin this on Misson ...no one can predict how any injury will stand up to the rigours of AFL football. Vanders literally doesn’t walk a step more than what he is told to.  Because of the nature of the injury I worry we won’t see him again which will be a tragedy not only for Vanders but also for the MFC. Clubs take punts on players because if they come off ...it’s a big win. Right now you have Hogan with his foot ...done, Kent with a quad...done, Tyson with a calf & other injuries...Ben Reid ...gone again ...& there’s plenty more. I for one don’t regret re-signing Vanders & hope we see him at some stage in the red & the blue !

Clark Keating only played finals in the greatest team ever.

AVB foot can’t stand up to the endurance, speed and body mass. 

Just prepare him him for September where he dominates.