"In his presentation, Misson showed that the Demons had 39 players complete a total of 33 training sessions each in the pre-season prior to the successful 2018 season. This year, in Misson’s telling, there were just 25 players completing a total of 22 sessions each – a massive drop partly explained by high number of players who had post-season surgery."

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/demons-early-warning-on-poor-start-to-2019-20190430-p51isa.html

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread & while mods may consider merging this thread, I think it's worthy of its own discussion. The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

The comparison with the Crows fall from grace in 2018 is interesting. Would love to see their pre season player availability stats for a deeper analysis

The good old Golden Ticket is alive and well.

24 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread & while mods may consider merging this thread, I think it's worthy of its own discussion. The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

The comparison with the Crows fall from grace in 2018 is interesting. Would love to see their pre season player availability stats for a deeper analysis

I was also curious to see the comparison with Adelaide.

This is from December 2017 on injury lists. It’s not much to go on but there’s a little bit of detail about the Crows’ players with post season surgery after the GF appearance. Not many really. If you go through all the lists our number of 17 post 2018 seems astronomical.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-09/medical-room-whos-on-the-injury-list-at-your-club

Edited April 30, 20196 yr by Dee Zephyr

Didn't the Crows also get some mentalists to kidnap their players?

Adelaide still won 12 games though, we'd kill for that this year.

3 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

This article was referred to in the Injury List thread

Mods should delete if a duplicate. I put it up because I couldn't see any reference to it anywhere, but if it's already been discussed ...

5 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

The stats are diabolical year on year and in reading the pre season training reports I didn't get the vibe that things were quite that dire. 

I wasn't overly vocal about it but I raised concerns. There were a number of other posters who shared the same view. We were always going to be in trouble early. I thought we would have enough depth to get us through the first few rounds, unfortunately we got a fair few injuries which ruined this. 

There were a large number of us who watched the practice games and knew we were cooked.

It isn't just the number of sessions though. There are a number of things that have created this which include:

1. Delayed start to preseason

2. Large turnover post season (10 is a lot for a team who finished 4th)

3. Post season surgery to 12 or more players

4. Injuries to a large number of players leading to round 1

I still think we will turn it around next year. While frustrating, this could be the year we need to have.

5 minutes ago, BAMF said:

I wasn't overly vocal about it but I raised concerns. There were a number of other posters who shared the same view. We were always going to be in trouble early. I thought we would have enough depth to get us through the first few rounds, unfortunately we got a fair few injuries which ruined this. 

There were a large number of us who watched the practice games and knew we were cooked.

It isn't just the number of sessions though. There are a number of things that have created this which include:

1. Delayed start to preseason

2. Large turnover post season (10 is a lot for a team who finished 4th)

3. Post season surgery to 12 or more players

4. Injuries to a large number of players leading to round 1

I still think we will turn it around next year. While frustrating, this could be the year we need to have.

The good news is that we should avoid a delayed start to preseason this year as players will be on holiday in the first week of September - Dees! 

Mods this discussion is already going in the Sack Everyone Mega thread.

Edited April 30, 20196 yr by Matsuo Basho

To me, the most interesting thing about this story is that Jake Niall has referred to the numbers allegedly in Misson's report. Assuming Niall's story is accurate, how did he get the figures? Has there been a leak? If so, for what reason?

My gut feel is that the data has been deliberately leaked to take some pressure off someone. Is that someone the coach? Misson? And, if that is correct, why is there a need now to take pressure off someone? Is there some internal pressure on Goodwin?

I find the questions the story raises far more interesting than the information itself, which probably doesn't tell us significantly much more than we already knew, or, at least, assumed. 

1 minute ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

To me, the most interesting thing about this story is that Jake Niall has referred to the numbers allegedly in Misson's report. Assuming Niall's story is accurate, how did he get the figures? Has there been a leak? If so, for what reason?

My gut feel is that the data has been deliberately leaked to take some pressure off someone. Is that someone the coach? Misson? And, if that is correct, why is there a need now to take pressure off someone? Is there some internal pressure on Goodwin?

I find the questions the story raises far more interesting than the information itself, which probably doesn't tell us significantly much more than we already knew, or, at least, assumed. 

Well, given the madness that overtakes this place why not leak some facts?

It's good to have the scale of the cutback in preparation quantified like this. I really don't know why you'd complain about it...you think it's a conspiracy to protect the coach and yet every week there is someone on this site complaining about the level of (non)disclosure from the official club site. 

You can't have this stuff dropped by an official because it looks like you're making excuses for the players. I'll go with the media strategy thanks. You go with your gut feel.

5 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Well, given the madness that overtakes this place why not leak some facts?

It's good to have the scale of the cutback in preparation quantified like this. I really don't know why you'd complain about it...you think it's a conspiracy to protect the coach and yet every week there is someone on this site complaining about the level of (non)disclosure from the official club site. 

You can't have this stuff dropped by an official because it looks like you're making excuses for the players. I'll go with the media strategy thanks. You go with your gut feel.

Sorry, Pitmaster, but I don't understand the last paragraph. Are you saying that you believe this information was a deliberate media strategy rather than a leak? If so, I don't have a problem with that view. Either way (leak or deliberate) it still raises the same question. Why now and for what purpose? I don't believe for one moment it's because the club is just being transparent. If that were the case, this information would have been released weeks ago.

To know why it was leaked you would need to know who leaked it. It could be a board member or any one of the football department. I am saying I don't care how it came out, but I can see that the club would not want it out as an official statement because that would be excusing failure.

I disagree it would have been released weeks ago for transparency...we weren't 1 and 5 then. I am saying it's important for the supporters to know the scale of the issue. Now we have some.

Gerard Whateley this morning led his show on SEN stating that Melbournes poor start to the year was simply due to our #interruptedpreseason that according to some on here did not exist. 

He said its not an excuse,  it's the reason. 

Probably didn't release the info cause you don't let the opposition know how weak you really are.
Now its damage control.

 

Edited May 1, 20196 yr by Fork 'em

Well we can't complain about being on the bottom then can we. 

The bottom line is it is what it is. There simply had to be consequences of the Post Season Operation schedule, consequences, no doubt, of Melbourne's late season success and attack at the Premiership. Trying to blame people, looking for leakages, shedding of responsibilities is all like spitting in the wind. It solves nothing, you can't blame Misson for the injuries...

Injuries are not the excuse, they were a fact of life. Not much you can do about that. 

10 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

Gerard Whateley this morning led his show on SEN stating that Melbournes poor start to the year was simply due to our #interruptedpreseason that according to some on here did not exist. 

He said its not an excuse,  it's the reason. 

This is what’s most pertinent. In fact, Goodwin has said all along that it is not an excuse.

8 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Probably didn't release the info cause you don't let the opposition know how weak you really are.
Now its damage control.

 

We are mentally weak more than physically weak.

Hawks roll into the season without their Brownlow medalist, Scully underdone, no Birchall, Burgoyne and Frawley under injury clouds. Yet there they are again knocking on the door of the eight getting the job done.

Richmond missing big stars, still got their foot on the gas with no let up.

Not at Melbourne. Send a few blokes out for minor surgeries in October and we soil the bed. Pathetic.

I think I was a bit guilty of thinking we had a plethora of player riches to choose from. I know many others thought the same. Once the new year came and players were still hobbling around, the penny dropped for me.

 

I think this points to a number of impacts - not only were we essentially 33% down on completed sessions, 22 to 33, we were also down 36% in the number of played who did them (25 to 39).

This speaks to a decrease in conditioning prior to the first game, but also speaks to individual players not being confident or up with their skills.  Even more importantly, the lack of team cohesion becomes apparent when the players have had little chance to work together on the game plan, on changes to the gameplan, and to convert ‘what we have to do’ into instinctive play through repetition. 

The lack of cohesion is critically apparent.  Poor decision making, looks like there is low trust for players to complete what is expected of them (lead to space, win an contest) and this is dramatically slowing the play, allowing the opposition to become completely set behind the ball.

So no excuses.  However how can you realistically compete when your team is >5% down across the board (Rusty Nails stats analysis),  only 2/3 of players completed 2/3 of the volume and training?  Seems like either a disaster, or long term planning in action.  My suspicion is they thought they could get away with it, but are being caught out.  The pressure will go on to be more competitive, and as we start to bring important players back and conditioning and cohesiveness improves, the back part of the year should be vastly improved.  It is still a terrible waste, however!

 

The upside of this - and this is how clubs like Hawthorn view it - is an opportunity to see how some of the kids slash lesser lights shape up.

I reckon on the evidence so far Hore and Lockhart look like they could be the goods. Preuss also brings something although sadly he has joined the injury list.

Clearly we are underdone - and while some might think it misguided I suspect the leaking of this was well-intentioned - but that does not really explain our vanishing skills as witnessed last week.

2 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

I think this points to a number of impacts - not only were we essentially 33% down on completed sessions, 22 to 33, we were also down 36% in the number of played who did them (25 to 39).

This speaks to a decrease in conditioning prior to the first game, but also speaks to individual players not being confident or up with their skills.  Even more importantly, the lack of team cohesion becomes apparent when the players have had little chance to work together on the game plan, on changes to the gameplan, and to convert ‘what we have to do’ into instinctive play through repetition. 

The lack of cohesion is critically apparent.  Poor decision making, looks like there is low trust for players to complete what is expected of them (lead to space, win an contest) and this is dramatically slowing the play, allowing the opposition to become completely set behind the ball.

So no excuses.  However how can you realistically compete when your team is >5% down across the board (Rusty Nails stats analysis),  only 2/3 of players completed 2/3 of the volume and training?  Seems like either a disaster, or long term planning in action.  My suspicion is they thought they could get away with it, but are being caught out.  The pressure will go on to be more competitive, and as we start to bring important players back and conditioning and cohesiveness improves, the back part of the year should be vastly improved.  It is still a terrible waste, however!

 

Great post Buck.

Totally agree on all points. I think they have  absolutely overestimated our depth (like many of us here, me included), thinking some of our fringe players could burden the load until the guns were all back and firing. Scrape a few wins early in the season and then re-load and expect more of the same domination of late last year. 

It`s been a disaster, but I guess these surgeries had to happen at some stage and now we are copping the ramifications.

We are likely to turn it around mid season, problem is our season is already cooked.

 

5 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

The upside of this - and this is how clubs like Hawthorn view it - is an opportunity to see how some of the kids slash lesser lights shape up.

I reckon on the evidence so far Hore and Lockhart look like they could be the goods. Preuss also brings something although sadly he has joined the injury list.

Clearly we are underdone - and while some might think it misguided I suspect the leaking of this was well-intentioned - but that does not really explain our vanishing skills as witnessed last week.

They`ve lost all their confidence (in themselves and in each other) as a result of the first month of footy I reckon PIt and secondly once their lack of fitness kicks in, the basic skills like hitting simple targets goes out the door.