The 2019 Draft and Trade Targets Thread

[Mach5 4,767]

8 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

It won't be pick 2 for 11 and 13, it will be 3 for 12 and 14 once the GC compo pick is awarded. If that is what happens it is a win / win, GWS need a pick above Green to get value in the draft and 12 and 14 give us good value in a draft that has a good even spread below the 1 & 2 picks. If we could get Rowell or Anderson that would be different but once GC get the compo and they are gone I'd do this trade in a heartbeat.

 

We’ll want more than just 12 & 14 for 3 though. They’re about equal value, but to GWS the earlier pick is worth so much more because it allows them to get another top echelon player before they have to use their points on Green.

Bonar, O’Halloran, Caldwell, Hately, etc. - there will be someone we’re keen on that GWS will seem expendable.

[whatwhat say what 22,758]

1 hour ago, Mach5 said:

We’ll want more than just 12 & 14 for 3 though. They’re about equal value, but to GWS the earlier pick is worth so much more because it allows them to get another top echelon player before they have to use their points on Green.

Bonar, O’Halloran, Caldwell, Hately, etc. - there will be someone we’re keen on that GWS will seem expendable.

Yup, hoping it’s Bonar of those options, but only cos he’s the only one I can remember seeing playing for their senior side of that list

[Redleg 40,926]

2 hours ago, FlashInThePan said:

It won't be pick 2 for 11 and 13, it will be 3 for 12 and 14 once the GC compo pick is awarded. If that is what happens it is a win / win, GWS need a pick above Green to get value in the draft and 12 and 14 give us good value in a draft that has a good even spread below the 1 & 2 picks. If we could get Rowell or Anderson that would be different but once GC get the compo and they are gone I'd do this trade in a heartbeat.

I just posted this on the Split the Picks thread:

Given the salary cap room required by GWS and their apparent need for 2 top 5 players, who will be on base payments, our pick 2, but likely 3, could be extremely valuable. 

If we are prepared to split picks and take 2 players later in the first round, I would imagine GWS would also throw a good player or players into the deal, to get it done.

That could mean we turn our pick into 3-4 players.

If the bloke we want is Anderson and we lose the pick, we might rate the next batch fairly equally and be prepared to do a big deal of the type I have outlined above.

If that is possible, who could we reasonably target from GWS?

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

One of the big concerns i have is now on field i feel like with no Lewis, Vince and Jones likely to spend time at casey this year, we've given ourselves a void of onfield leadership. 

[samcantstandya 1,055]

53 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

One of the big concerns i have is now on field i feel like with no Lewis, Vince and Jones likely to spend time at casey this year, we've given ourselves a void of onfield leadership. 

Jones doesn't provide any leadership he just tries to kick it long every time or over possess the ball. AFL platers should know how to play.

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

5 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

One of the big concerns i have is now on field i feel like with no Lewis, Vince and Jones likely to spend time at casey this year, we've given ourselves a void of onfield leadership. 

Yes, it is going to be interesting to see how this evolves over the coming year. Both Lever and May are good on field leaders and help organise those around them. I can't help but think our problems around the stoppages have 2 causes. 1) The simplistic 'see ball, get ball' contested possession messages they have been given for most of their time developing. This message is great for simplifying things and getting a strong basic contested possession game going but falls down when you try to advance into more sophisticated play. 2) Lack of leaders to help organise stoppage structure and spread around the stoppage. I guess there is a third aspect detailed in that Roar article by Josh Elliot, that we have so many players who's natural game is inside, contested and so few outside runners and users.

I'm not sure whether Viney has the football brain to be the leader/organiser around the stoppage. Maybe it could be Max or maybe it could be Gus? Someone needs to step into that role and help us structure up more effectively and spread better from the stoppage, preferably more than one someone. With Macca leaving the 'see ball, get ball' message development style may drop off a little as well. It was interesting how his departure from the Bulldogs changed their game style without killing the contested element he built. I guess the last point can only be fixed in the draft or if players like Baker and KK come on. I must admit I had high hopes for KK at the beginning of last year but unfortunately they have not turned into reality.

[Thehardtackler 785]

You can get leadership in young players too. You need to draft players like Sam Walsh who just take the game on straight away.

[Redleg 40,926]

52 minutes ago, Thehardtackler said:

You can get leadership in young players too. You need to draft players like Sam Walsh who just take the game on straight away.

Yes, all you need it pick 1.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

15 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Yes, all you need it pick 1.

Or maybe pick 2 or 3, Red

[Dee tention 616]

We need to push hard for a player like Daniels along with 12 & 14.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

One key area we need to improve to give us the best chance of continued positive development for our younger group:

 

* Experience and leadership. Every supporter should be acutely aware of the fact that due to our atrocious track record of drafting and player development over the past decade, our list has been completely bereft of genuine quality leaders. It has been so bad that we've had to consistently bring in older heads to fill the void. Byrnes, Cross, Vince, Lewis, May etc. With Lewis now retired, I strongly hold the view that our group would benefit from having another 200+ game player on the training track and on the field. 

The simple fact of the matter is that we need to keep doing this until enough genuine leaders emerge from our current core group of players. Viney and Lever need to get back to playing consistent football even though both are the furthest advanced in that age group. Brayshaw, Petracca, Harmes and Oliver need to grow up a bit and continue to develop. 

Jones would benefit from having another older head on the ground as well as relinquishing the captaincy and get back to concentrating on his own form. Viney the same. Like many, I think Gawn is ready to take the mantle as sole captain of the club. But this should be a reminder to everyone about how long it can take for a player to develop and mature to the level required for a leadership role. It doesn't always happen overnight like it did with Viney. Therefore, it is of utmost importance to the future of the club that we keep our younger core on the straight and narrow. We cannot afford to lose one of our younger core players in the club's current state.

Higgins or Smith are my choices for experience and leadership. Both have different levels of experience/success and both are different players. However, both offer us attributes that we desperately need. Higgins is arguably playing the best football of his career despite his age and I liken him Bourgoyne in the way that there are no visible signs of him slowing down. His decision making, ball use, positioning and footballing IQ are absolutely elite and then there's what he'd offer from an experience and leadership pov also. Smith is the wingman we would love, penetrating kick, really smart, elite of elite runners and leadership and experience that would trump that of Higgins'. I'd be ecstatic with either player and I genuinely think that we need at least one of these types going into 2020.

[Adam The God 30,259]

19 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

One key area we need to improve to give us the best chance of continued positive development for our younger group:

 

* Experience and leadership. Every supporter should be acutely aware of the fact that due to our atrocious track record of drafting and player development over the past decade, our list has been completely bereft of genuine quality leaders. It has been so bad that we've had to consistently bring in older heads to fill the void. Byrnes, Cross, Vince, Lewis, May etc. With Lewis now retired, I strongly hold the view that our group would benefit from having another 200+ game player on the training track and on the field. 

The simple fact of the matter is that we need to keep doing this until enough genuine leaders emerge from our current core group of players. Viney and Lever need to get back to playing consistent football even though both are the furthest advanced in that age group. Brayshaw, Petracca, Harmes and Oliver need to grow up a bit and continue to develop. 

Jones would benefit from having another older head on the ground as well as relinquishing the captaincy and get back to concentrating on his own form. Viney the same. Like many, I think Gawn is ready to take the mantle as sole captain of the club. But this should be a reminder to everyone about how long it can take for a player to develop and mature to the level required for a leadership role. It doesn't always happen overnight like it did with Viney. Therefore, it is of utmost importance to the future of the club that we keep our younger core on the straight and narrow. We cannot afford to lose one of our younger core players in the club's current state.

Higgins or Smith are my choices for experience and leadership. Both have different levels of experience/success and both are different players. However, both offer us attributes that we desperately need. Higgins is arguably playing the best football of his career despite his age and I liken him Bourgoyne in the way that there are no visible signs of him slowing down. His decision making, ball use, positioning and footballing IQ are absolutely elite and then there's what he'd offer from an experience and leadership pov also. Smith is the wingman we would love, penetrating kick, really smart, elite of elite runners and leadership and experience that would trump that of Higgins'. I'd be ecstatic with either player and I genuinely think that we need at least one of these types going into 2020.

I'm with you on the needing more genuine leadership on and off field.

Likewise, I think Gawn should be made sole captain too, but my expectation is Viney will remain co-captain. This will really highlight the favouritism that I keep hearing about and boys club that has grown up around Todd Viney. I hope I'm wrong and he relinquishes the captaincy and focuses on being a contributor.

The problem with the two players that you've highlighted is that neither are leaders, Higgins slightly more so, but they won't offer what we're looking for and unless they come cheaply, we risk sacrificing development of younger kids in our system whose list spot would be taken by their recruitment.

I hate what I'm about to say but I can't think of anyone who would be gettable from other clubs and offer us genuine leadership for an affordable price.

You're on the right track, I just don't think you've identified the right players. 

Incidentally, I'd be interested in getting someone like Roughead down to the club in a forwards capacity. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,460]

Anyone think Conor Menadue from the Tigers could be a handy wingman.  Has the pace and skills. Stuck in Tigers VFL Team. Clearly better than VFL standard.  

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

5 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

One key area we need to improve to give us the best chance of continued positive development for our younger group:

 

* Experience and leadership. Every supporter should be acutely aware of the fact that due to our atrocious track record of drafting and player development over the past decade, our list has been completely bereft of genuine quality leaders. It has been so bad that we've had to consistently bring in older heads to fill the void. Byrnes, Cross, Vince, Lewis, May etc. With Lewis now retired, I strongly hold the view that our group would benefit from having another 200+ game player on the training track and on the field. 

The simple fact of the matter is that we need to keep doing this until enough genuine leaders emerge from our current core group of players. Viney and Lever need to get back to playing consistent football even though both are the furthest advanced in that age group. Brayshaw, Petracca, Harmes and Oliver need to grow up a bit and continue to develop. 

Jones would benefit from having another older head on the ground as well as relinquishing the captaincy and get back to concentrating on his own form. Viney the same. Like many, I think Gawn is ready to take the mantle as sole captain of the club. But this should be a reminder to everyone about how long it can take for a player to develop and mature to the level required for a leadership role. It doesn't always happen overnight like it did with Viney. Therefore, it is of utmost importance to the future of the club that we keep our younger core on the straight and narrow. We cannot afford to lose one of our younger core players in the club's current state.

Higgins or Smith are my choices for experience and leadership. Both have different levels of experience/success and both are different players. However, both offer us attributes that we desperately need. Higgins is arguably playing the best football of his career despite his age and I liken him Bourgoyne in the way that there are no visible signs of him slowing down. His decision making, ball use, positioning and footballing IQ are absolutely elite and then there's what he'd offer from an experience and leadership pov also. Smith is the wingman we would love, penetrating kick, really smart, elite of elite runners and leadership and experience that would trump that of Higgins'. I'd be ecstatic with either player and I genuinely think that we need at least one of these types going into 2020.

I don't mind this STM but imv whoever you are targeting for the leadership/experience qualities still needs to bring something major to the team on field other than just experience / leadership.  An X factor where he can potentially turn a game if you like.

Unless we are moving one of our inside mids on i'd be reluctant to go after Higgins.  He is also coming from a failed club over the last two decades.

Subject to being up for the challenge and truly wanting it i would much rather Smith.  Fills an outside hole that needs filling and brings more of the Hawk's (Clarko) winning attitude, experience and methods (training standards etc) with him.  Can finish in front of the sticks on his day also.  We need to bring in more goal kicking power big time.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Moneyball is screening on 7mate now, for a different perspective... 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

21 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

One of the big concerns i have is now on field i feel like with no Lewis, Vince and Jones likely to spend time at casey this year, we've given ourselves a void of onfield leadership. 

With the exception of the Swans match and a few cameos, Jones was a shell of his former self in terms of 'leading by example' captaincy anyway PO.

Neither him nor Viney did much leading at all, including flying the flag or on field coaching/guidance/voice.  Especially Viney.

The mid season review, while initially looking like a potential circuit breaker, now appears to have fallen short of the mark.

It failed to fix the off field FD issues but it also failed to fix the on field.

And part of the on field lay with the very poor leadership.

Big Maxy should have been elevated as an additional Co. imv.

Externally we could have sold it as a reward for Maxy's great form early and an assist to Jones/Viney while they focused on regaining fitness / form, with both having only half the usual pre-season loading

Internally a bit of the same but also a subtle shot across the bows of the two exisiting Captains.

Regardless we have Big M to captain us next season.  May might be handy as part of the leadership group also.  I think we'll actually improve as long as Goody feels the same and makes the move.

He would basically be committing himself to the hangman's noose career wise if he doesn't.

[Roger Mellie 4,025]

I agree with the screaming lack of on-field leadership. That coupled with the absence of runners has been a big contribution to our downfall this year (along with injuries, preseason issues, and plummeting confidence etc). We are not a smart football team. We don't play as a unit and there is not much instinct guiding our play. A classic example is the how slow we are to change to wet weather footy during a game. It's almost as though they need the runner to put out the call 'Hey fellas, it's raining....'

[Adam The God 30,259]

5 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

I agree with the screaming lack of on-field leadership. That coupled with the absence of runners has been a big contribution to our downfall this year (along with injuries, preseason issues, and plummeting confidence etc). We are not a smart football team. We don't play as a unit and there is not much instinct guiding our play. A classic example is the how slow we are to change to wet weather footy during a game. It's almost as though they need the runner to put out the call 'Hey fellas, it's raining....'

Unfortunately, spot on. That comes down to coaching too. JC, we never play smart wet-weather footy under Goodwin.

[Demonsone 2,037]

Seems the MFC is hardly mention when the guns of other clubs are possibly looking to move ..whilst most are not always true Hawks seem to be targeting all of them Conoglio , Patton... not sure why with so many holes in outside run & fwds why our club isn’t mentioned? 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

4 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

I agree with the screaming lack of on-field leadership. That coupled with the absence of runners has been a big contribution to our downfall this year (along with injuries, preseason issues, and plummeting confidence etc). We are not a smart football team. We don't play as a unit and there is not much instinct guiding our play. A classic example is the how slow we are to change to wet weather footy during a game. It's almost as though they need the runner to put out the call 'Hey fellas, it's raining....'

Interesting you bring up the absence of runners RM. I remember reading the below article prior to Round 1 about ‘Upskilling’ our playing group and especially our leaders.

It all sounded good at the time, but it looks like the added responsibility wasn’t handled well at all amongst other issues.

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-03-14/runner-restrictions-a-chance-to-upskill-jones

Edited September 1, 2019 by Dee Zephyr

[Mach5 4,767]

3 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Seems the MFC is hardly mention when the guns of other clubs are possibly looking to move ..whilst most are not always true Hawks seem to be targeting all of them Conoglio , Patton... not sure why with so many holes in outside run & fwds why our club isn’t mentioned? 

 

Interesting comment, because I recall Collingwood being extremely interested in Steven May until it became clear he was determined to play for us.

There would have been competition for Lever too, if there was ever a question over where he wanted to go.

I’d say if anything our recruitment is targeted rather than scattershot, and there’s a healthy dose of media speculation with the big name recruits, and (shock horror) the speculation involves clubs with large supporter bases. You’d almost think that it was based around maximising the click rate...

[faultydet 7,594]

54 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

Interesting comment, because I recall Collingwood being extremely interested in Steven May until it became clear he was determined to play for us.

There would have been competition for Lever too, if there was ever a question over where he wanted to go.

I’d say if anything our recruitment is targeted rather than scattershot, and there’s a healthy dose of media speculation with the big name recruits, and (shock horror) the speculation involves clubs with large supporter bases. You’d almost think that it was based around maximising the click rate...

This post is spot on.

Lever and May were HUGE pickups, even if the trade price was considered high by supporters. They were probably both considered to be in the top 5 key defenders in the comp, and 1 a club captain. Enormous coup to get both of them. And at a time when we had a bare cupboard of quality key backs.

If we could just find a way to entice some elite outside mids to come over.....

[Watts the matter 1,235]

25 minutes ago, faultydet said:

This post is spot on.

Lever and May were HUGE pickups, even if the trade price was considered high by supporters. They were probably both considered to be in the top 5 key defenders in the comp, and 1 a club captain. Enormous coup to get both of them. And at a time when we had a bare cupboard of quality key backs.

If we could just find a way to entice some elite outside mids to come over.....

Lever a top 5 key defender? Turn it up. Adelaide offered him 300k a year, that shows how he was rated by those who saw him most.

Lever is not a key defender and we had just given up Howe for squat before getting an inferior version for massive overs. We messed up.

May costed a lot, but at least he is a good key defender.

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Watts the matter

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

Before injury and being treated like rubbish by Adelaide for not re-signing, Lever was a fantastic defender and would have been up near the best. Quite amazing given his age at the time. 

[faultydet 7,594]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Before injury and being treated like rubbish by Adelaide for not re-signing, Lever was a fantastic defender and would have been up near the best. Quite amazing given his age at the time. 

If I could like my post I would have.