Tim Smith v Cam Pedersen

[dworship 3,342]

3 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

My last ever post on this .......

If you reckon Smith is a better forward than Pedersen I'm pretty much speechless. I suppose if he improves on his 4 senior games & racks up 80 odd matches like Pedo did you will be proved right.

Anyhow at Casey in 2018 Smith played 15 games for 12 goals while Pedersen had 17 games for 32 goals. 

And we can now flag this thread as a fabulous example  of flogging a dead horse......

Loved Pedo as a person who got the absolute best out of himself and although he was a square peg in a round hole, he managed to engage, encourage and support on the field  the younger guys coming through. He can go on with the rest of his life knowing he did all he could  and considering how he came to us from NM I'd think he was enormously thankful of his time at the MFC. I believe that showed in everything he did. Having spoken to him a number of times I believe he would be appalled at the lack of support for Smith and I know he thinks Smith has had a terrible run at it due to injury. 

As far as your assertions go, I don't place much value on quotes of stats that don't have an underlying analysis of the circumstances. Eg, How often was Smith coming back from an injury vs Pedo who was at peak fitness when playing for Casey?

[Dr.D 1,771]

Well I agree with the initial poster. Pedo when given the chance was a good player for us. And when guys like Watts and Hogan were dancing around the contest getting games I just wanted Pedo to play. Was never really given a fair go in the last couple of seasons by the coaches but there's no doubt Pedo is twice the player of Tim Smith. 

[monoccular 17,429]

On 1/1/2019 at 3:51 PM, Mach5 said:

 

Mate, Smith is a better forward than Pedersen, and the coaching dept had informed Pedersen his future on the list depended on his ability to perform as a defender, so they obviously agreed.

Both probably not up to it, but Smith a better forward. Not much else to it.

 

On 1/1/2019 at 8:39 PM, Cranky Franky said:

My last ever post on this .......

If you reckon Smith is a better forward than Pedersen I'm pretty much speechless. I suppose if he improves on his 4 senior games & racks up 80 odd matches like Pedo did you will be proved right.

Anyhow at Casey in 2018 Smith played 15 games for 12 goals while Pedersen had 17 games for 32 goals. 

I don’t  see how one can say that Smith “is a better forward than Pedersen”: sure he may become one but is entirely an unknown quantity at this stage.

But Pedersen has run his race,and Smith is still in the running.

And I do agree that this whole thread is anything other than comparing like with like, which at least to me makes it fairly meaningless  

 

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Pedersen was cooked. Smith is poo. Hope TMac and Weid play full seasons next year and we don’t have to worry about fringe battlers who might or might not get a call-up.

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

1 hour ago, Radar Detector said:

Pedersen was cooked. Smith is poo. Hope TMac and Weid play full seasons next year and we don’t have to worry about fringe battlers who might or might not get a call-up.

Pedo was definitely cooked. I haven't given up on T.Smith yet he played a great game against Adelaide and also against Carlton. His kicking and consistency are a major problem.

[puntkick 325]

4 hours ago, Radar Detector said:

Pedersen was cooked. Smith is poo. Hope TMac and Weid play full seasons next year and we don’t have to worry about fringe battlers who might or might not get a call-up.

Speaking of Lewis ?

[Mach5 4,767]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:41 PM, monoccular said:

 

I don’t  see how one can say that Smith “is a better forward than Pedersen”: sure he may become one but is entirely an unknown quantity at this stage.

But Pedersen has run his race,and Smith is still in the running.

And I do agree that this whole thread is anything other than comparing like with like, which at least to me makes it fairly meaningless  

 

I just did.

He’s tougher, harder, more selfless, has more impact on contests, etc.

Of course this appraisal is all based on both of them at this precise point in time, irrespective of mid-term past performance. 

However Pedersen made a career out of getting cheap touches and goals, Smith has done the opposite.

[Cranky Franky 2,061]

2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

I just did.

He’s tougher, harder, more selfless, has more impact on contests, etc.

Of course this appraisal is all based on both of them at this precise point in time, irrespective of mid-term past performance. 

However Pedersen made a career out of getting cheap touches and goals, Smith has done the opposite.

Sorry I can't let the last comment go so I'm reneging on my "last ever post on the matter"

The fact is Smith has done a total of SFA while Pedersen built a career out of hard work & being a totally selfless team player, crashing packs & working his backside off as an undersize ruckman.  In 2018 he dominated at Casey & was probably our best player over the finals series.

By contrast Smith did practically nothing in 2018 & very little in 2017.  I watched him in the Casey finals where he was almost embarrassing, trying to take speccies, missing easy goals and being a wasted space in the ruck.

 

[Radar Detector 1,347]

13 hours ago, Mach5 said:

However Pedersen made a career out of getting cheap touches and goals, Smith has done the opposite.

Not made a career?

[Deemania since 56 6,639]

On 1/2/2019 at 12:00 AM, dworship said:

flogging a dead horse

Obviously into sadism, necrophilia and bestiality. Flogging a dead horse or not, it is an opinion worthy of attention, not abuse.

[Mach5 4,767]

8 hours ago, Radar Detector said:

Not made a career?

Entitled to your opinion, but I think Tim has consistently made a contest, whereas Cam has consistently looked for cheapies, throughout their respective careers, however long they’ve been.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

On 12/20/2018 at 4:38 PM, Cranky Franky said:

Anyhow its all over now but I reckon it was a shocking decision.

You'll find Pedo will go down in MFC history as the better player and will be remembered more fondly. But list wise, would it be right to have 2 backup KPFs? Probably not... so if you take out one, do you keep the 31 year old or the 27 year old? Simple decision really.

I reckon another issue he might have had was what Taylor wanted to do. It's still surprising to me that in a year where we traded away all our top picks, we still ended up drafting so heavily. Jason must have had a real love for the guys we took, particularly Hore, Bedford and Nietschke who were all unheralded and taken late. I know he said he was interested in Hore from a while back but didn't have the spots to fit him in. Had we not wanted one of those kids, maybe there'd been room for Pedo?

 

[praha 11,240]

I think it's important people remember back to Pederson's first season at Melbourne when he was seen as one of the worst recruits to the club in a long while. A lot can change in a preseason and speaking with certainty that Smith cant contribute is shockingly shortsighted. 

[DV8 2,271]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:41 PM, monoccular said:

 

I don’t  see how one can say that Smith “is a better forward than Pedersen”: sure he may become one but is entirely an unknown quantity at this stage.

But Pedersen has run his race,and Smith is still in the running.

And I do agree that this whole thread is anything other than comparing like with like, which at least to me makes it fairly meaningless  

 

And I suspect the availability of Frost and Lever, as well as Preuss & May virtually guaranteed, there was no toss of coin required in my mind.

Even if I loved the player Pedo had become for us, when we needed him to.

 

In the 2nd half of this season Lever will be ready to be selected to play footy.

This will give us an abundance of key tall's...  some spare.  IF May and Lever play together in the run home in defence... we'll have options for that other tall player.

And some could slot forward, if our regulars were to be injured... or out of form.

 

I have an inkling we will try to get more speed into our front half for the 2019 season, and going forward.  

... but these quick players have to tackle, jeffy !

.

[The Chief 697]

On exposed form, the level of faith being placed in Weideman to be a successful key forward in 2019 is interesting.  

[Gator 17,357]

12 hours ago, The Chief said:

On exposed form, the level of faith being placed in Weideman to be a successful key forward in 2019 is interesting.  

It's the exposed form that has me excited.

For players who played at least 10 games in 2018 Weideman averaged the 11th most contested marks in the competition.  In his last 5 games he took 13 contested marks at 2.6 per game.  That average over the course of a season would have placed him equal second with Jack Darling and bear in mind three of those games were finals.

When a guy is a 196cm 21 year old and has 24 disposals, 7 marks, and kicks 3 goals in his club's first final in 12 years there's a bit to be excited about.  To show you can perform on the big stage in front of 90,000+ is significant.

I spoke with Brendan McCartney back at the end of 2016 and he said Weideman would be as good as Hogan.  I didn't believe it at the time and he still may not reach Hogan's level, however, I no longer think it's a pipe-dream.  Weideman is very athletic, takes some marks Hogan can't (and vice versa), and like Hogan he's a very smart decision maker.

He doesn't turn 22 until the end of June.

My prediction: 38 goals in 2019.  More in subsequent years.  

[P-man 13,366]

I was and am a Pedo fan as I think most here are, and he wasn’t always treated fairly at the selection table, but his time was up.

[Skuit 10,031]

Sometimes a thread persists at the top of the list, a thread you reasonably expect would have disappeared into the internet ether at some earlier stage. But there it is, when you open Demonland, still at the top of the list. And finally you succumb, and open the thread again, and gain absolutely nothing from doing so. Long live Pedders.

[Biffen 12,943]

I've started a GetUP petition and written to the minister.

I'll fix this.

# Free the Pedo.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Ethan Tremblay

[Mach5 4,767]

On 1/12/2019 at 8:55 AM, ProDee said:

It's the exposed form that has me excited.

For players who played at least 10 games in 2018 Weideman averaged the 11th most contested marks in the competition.  In his last 5 games he took 13 contested marks at 2.6 per game.  That average over the course of a season would have placed him equal second with Jack Darling and bear in mind three of those games were finals.

When a guy is a 196cm 21 year old and has 24 disposals, 7 marks, and kicks 3 goals in his club's first final in 12 years there's a bit to be excited about.  To show you can perform on the big stage in front of 90,000+ is significant.

I spoke with Brendan McCartney back at the end of 2016 and he said Weideman would be as good as Hogan.  I didn't believe it at the time and he still may not reach Hogan's level, however, I no longer think it's a pipe-dream.  Weideman is very athletic, takes some marks Hogan can't (and vice versa), and like Hogan he's a very smart decision maker.

He doesn't turn 22 until the end of June.

My prediction: 38 goals in 2019.  More in subsequent years.  

Weideman is also a much better kick for goal. Distance not a problem, nor is the odd ball drop or sewing machine kicking action. 

A lot to like about the Weid.

[layzie 33,805]

Have to back the FD in on this one. It's a good question though, although I hope it doesn't get bumped throughout the year when/if Smith plays.

[deanox 9,922]

On 1/10/2019 at 11:41 AM, Dappa Dan said:

You'll find Pedo will go down in MFC history as the better player and will be remembered more fondly. But list wise, would it be right to have 2 backup KPFs? Probably not... so if you take out one, do you keep the 31 year old or the 27 year old? Simple decision really.

I reckon another issue he might have had was what Taylor wanted to do. It's still surprising to me that in a year where we traded away all our top picks, we still ended up drafting so heavily. Jason must have had a real love for the guys we took, particularly Hore, Bedford and Nietschke who were all unheralded and taken late. I know he said he was interested in Hore from a while back but didn't have the spots to fit him in. Had we not wanted one of those kids, maybe there'd been room for Pedo?

 

I thought we still had another list position? Or did we fill it?

[deanox 9,922]

On 1/12/2019 at 8:55 AM, ProDee said:

It's the exposed form that has me excited.

For players who played at least 10 games in 2018 Weideman averaged the 11th most contested marks in the competition.  In his last 5 games he took 13 contested marks at 2.6 per game.  That average over the course of a season would have placed him equal second with Jack Darling and bear in mind three of those games were finals.

When a guy is a 196cm 21 year old and has 24 disposals, 7 marks, and kicks 3 goals in his club's first final in 12 years there's a bit to be excited about.  To show you can perform on the big stage in front of 90,000+ is significant.

I spoke with Brendan McCartney back at the end of 2016 and he said Weideman would be as good as Hogan.  I didn't believe it at the time and he still may not reach Hogan's level, however, I no longer think it's a pipe-dream.  Weideman is very athletic, takes some marks Hogan can't (and vice versa), and like Hogan he's a very smart decision maker.

He doesn't turn 22 until the end of June.

My prediction: 38 goals in 2019.  More in subsequent years.  

 

9 hours ago, Mach5 said:

Weideman is also a much better kick for goal. Distance not a problem, nor is the odd ball drop or sewing machine kicking action. 

A lot to like about the Weid.

Apart from one on one physical-strength meeting, Hogan's elite-level strengths are his mobility and aerobic capacity which were exposed as a 17 yo, and therefore made him a "certainty" as far as KPFs go.

While visible as a junior, Weid's potential "elite" level attributes (things like his aerial marking and goal kicking) required development to enable display at AFL level. Similarly, I think there were minor question marks over his athleticsm and agility, especially with the ankle injury.

It's feasible to think those with closer knowledge would be able to better predict the end development.  If he keeps developing the way he did on the last rounds of 2018 it will be exciting.