On 23/08/2018 at 02:20, Wiseblood said:

Those asking to trade Jesse better not be the ones in the next few years who get stuck in to a player for lack of loyalty if they don't sign a contract.  

We can't be so blase in just wanting to ship a player off and then cry foul when another doesn't want to sign.  It works both ways.

Cant agree with this more. I think some people are thinking he may ask to be traded back to w.a in the future so get all excited now. Jesse will be coming into his prime as our team does. Which will mean better forward delivery. Did brisbane lions try and trade out lappin or power because they had black voss and acker?

Trade one of our best young players?? Wtf!

good lord DL is hard to read sometimes

  On 23/08/2018 at 01:18, rpfc said:

The more people we can throw through there the better for our depth. 

The notion of depth caters to a requirement of a 'tomorrow'  etc.. Its a little like a bird in the hand ,..two in bush etc.. You are always better off with Someone who can...as opposed someone who might...  Jesse  might make a Mid...others already ARE.

Im a bit over everything is for down the track..  we are actually in the here and now.  We need to play that way...imho

He’s 23yo for gods sake, who has gone through a hell of a lot, wait till he’s 25-26, with the way the young blokes are developing, he’ll be a superstar 

This is a question of curiosity. Why are so many prepared to put the player...before the club ??

Thats not to disrespect or dismiss the worth of anyone...but clubs win games/win premierships..  So says the great North Smith..and he knew a thing or two.  Maybe we listen to his words a bit more and the curse might lift ??

Im not the only one here suggesting a balanced reappraisal of his worth/position  to Melb is warranted.

These are professional footballers who whilst playing for a jumper are actually incredibly well remunerated.

He was brought in as the classic messiah /silver bullet type draft.  Getting him will fix everything.  He's but one player. At times very good, at others woeful in attitude. There may well be reasons for that but just like fitness..you cross that line  you better be focused....or go sort life out. Thats not said in nastiness...just maybe what some need to do..Other players have.

He struggles against better sides.. Arguably isnt helped by some coaching/selection  but what is..is. If he get nullified in games where his real footy ability would be real handy..what value that ??

Im not opposed to playing him down back @binman will recall we discussed this exact notion in other thread  only to be howled down by those ...you know...know it alls!!

I dont think he's ideal as a mid either...smart yes...slow to react at times.. that burns play. Hes a very talented footballer...i just dont know what his position is now at Melbourne.  Too many better coaches have figured him out.  Ours needs to too  and quickly .

Edited August 23, 20186 yr by beelzebub

  On 23/08/2018 at 08:09, beelzebub said:

This is a question of curiosity. Why are so many prepared to put the player...before the club ??

Thats not to disrespect or dismiss the worth of anyone...but clubs win games/win premierships..  So says the great North Smith..and he knew a thing or two.  Maybe we listen to his words a bit more and the curse might lift ??

Im not the only one here suggesting a balanced reappraisal of his worth/position  to Melb is warranted.

These are professional footballers who whilst playing for a jumper are actually incredibly well remunerated.

He was brought in as the classic messiah /silver bullet type draft.  Getting him will fix everything.  He's but one player. At times very good, at others woeful in attitude. There may well be reasons for that but just like fitness..you cross that line  you better be focused....or go sort life out. Thats not said in nastiness...just maybe what some need to do..Other players have.

He struggles against better sides.. Arguably isnt helped by some coaching/selection  but what is..is. If he get nullified in games where his real footy ability would be real handy..what value that ??

Im not opposed to playing him down back @Biffen will recall we discussed this exact notion in other thread  only to be howled down by those ...you know...know it alls!!

I dont think he's ideal as a mid either...smart yes...slow to react at times.. that burns play. Hes a very talented footballer...i just dont know what his position is now at Melbourne.  Too many better coaches have figured him out.  Ours needs to too  and quickly .

That's 9 posts on this topic now Beelzebub and while i respect your right to your opinion, i'm  sorry but you will never convince me, no matter how many more you post. Jessie has to stay - for the good of the club - in my humble opinion

 

 

  On 23/08/2018 at 07:52, beelzebub said:

The notion of depth caters to a requirement of a 'tomorrow'  etc.. Its a little like a bird in the hand ,..two in bush etc.. You are always better off with Someone who can...as opposed someone who might...  Jesse  might make a Mid...others already ARE.

Im a bit over everything is for down the track..  we are actually in the here and now.  We need to play that way...imho

He's a gun footy player - he can do whatever he wants on the field. Garry Lyon was the same - put him wherever and he will be great.

Getting back to the point of this misguided thread - the only time we trade him is if he requests a trade - you don't shop stars and he is one.

End of story.

  On 23/08/2018 at 06:20, Redleg said:

I would not want to lose Jesse, but if he indicated he wanted to go home and with FA approaching, I would ask for Freo's first pick and Cerra and Brayshaw or something similar and tell them do that deal or we will trade him to the Eagles.

We could then take a key forward with that pick and hope he comes up.

 

 

  On 23/08/2018 at 09:16, rpfc said:

He's a gun footy player - he can do whatever he wants on the field. Garry Lyon was the same - put him wherever and he will be great.

Getting back to the point of this misguided thread - the only time we trade him is if he requests a trade - you don't shop stars and he is one.

End of story.

End of story...and if he did then 'Reds' price is about right.

  On 23/08/2018 at 09:16, rpfc said:

He's a gun footy player - he can do whatever he wants on the field. Garry Lyon was the same - put him wherever and he will be great.

NO he cant...he gets 'minded' out of it. And thats the very point of much concern. Lyon could kick over 50 m ...just saying

Getting back to the point of this misguided thread - the only time we trade him is if he requests a trade - you don't shop stars and he is one.

End of story.

If said star is effectively incapable of delivering on that STAR ability....what is the value ??"Stars" arent untouchable

I very much doubt this is the end of this story. Cheers

  On 23/08/2018 at 08:09, beelzebub said:

This is a question of curiosity. Why are so many prepared to put the player...before the club ??

Thats not to disrespect or dismiss the worth of anyone...but clubs win games/win premierships..  So says the great North Smith..and he knew a thing or two.  Maybe we listen to his words a bit more and the curse might lift ??

Im not the only one here suggesting a balanced reappraisal of his worth/position  to Melb is warranted.

These are professional footballers who whilst playing for a jumper are actually incredibly well remunerated.

He was brought in as the classic messiah /silver bullet type draft.  Getting him will fix everything.  He's but one player. At times very good, at others woeful in attitude. There may well be reasons for that but just like fitness..you cross that line  you better be focused....or go sort life out. Thats not said in nastiness...just maybe what some need to do..Other players have.

 He struggles against better sides.. Arguably isnt helped by some coaching/selection  but what is..is. If he get nullified in games where his real footy ability would be real handy..what value that ??

Im not opposed to playing him down back @binman will recall we discussed this exact notion in other thread  only to be howled down by those ...you know...know it alls!!

I dont think he's ideal as a mid either...smart yes...slow to react at times.. that burns play. Hes a very talented footballer...i just dont know what his position is now at Melbourne.  Too many better coaches have figured him out.  Ours needs to too  and quickly .

Just pure garbage sorry.

  On 23/08/2018 at 09:33, beelzebub said:

If said star is effectively incapable of delivering on that STAR ability....what is the value ??"Stars" arent untouchable

I very much doubt this is the end of this story. Cheers

There's a lot of preciousness going around.  No One wants Jesse gone.

But we all want say a Josh Kelly, or a Whitfield, Shiel, or a Lachie Neale at this club.

 

If one of these players becomes available to us, at the right price, then what ?

Edited August 23, 20186 yr by DV8

Play him at CHB like David Neitz. The forwards are working a lot better without him, but he is incredibly talented. Our defence needs a monster. Why not?

Edited August 26, 20186 yr by Grapeviney
Thread merge

Agree.

could rotate him from chb to a forward flank position.

  On 26/08/2018 at 07:48, Dees2014 said:

Play him at CHB like David Neitz. The forwards are working a lot better without him, but he is incredibly talented. Our defence needs a monster. Why not?

He is our leading goal kicker and we were still the highest scoring side in the comp with him in it.  

Anyway, I don't know why we're worried about where Hogan plays right now.  We should be focused on finals and enjoying that.

His peak value will also be when he is a restricted free agent. So how about we all calm down and let this settle itself in time.

 

  On 26/08/2018 at 08:44, Wiseblood said:

He is our leading goal kicker and we were still the highest scoring side in the comp with him in it.  

Anyway, I don't know why we're worried about where Hogan plays right now.  We should be focused on finals and enjoying that.

Really mate? Check again ?

  On 26/08/2018 at 07:48, Dees2014 said:

Play him at CHB like David Neitz. The forwards are working a lot better without him, but he is incredibly talented. Our defence needs a monster. Why not?

When I watched him in the juniors he was a back. I was surprised when we drafted him and played him forward. Our defense would be much better with him there. He is really good down back. He may not want to play back though. 

  On 26/08/2018 at 08:44, Wiseblood said:

He is our leading goal kicker and we were still the highest scoring side in the comp with him in it.  

Anyway, I don't know why we're worried about where Hogan plays right now.  We should be focused on finals and enjoying that.

It is relevant because the trading period is coming up and discussions are starting. Some demon supporters are suggesting we don’t need hogan presumably because our winning record this year is much better when Hogan doesn’t play. 

I very much disagree with this. - hogan is much too good a player to contemplate trading, but we have to admit we need to think through better how we use him in the future. David Neitz early in his career played a lot at CHB, and the great Wayne Carey described him as the best backman he ever played on. Neitz himself says playing down back for extended periods eventually made him a better forward. 

The same may apply to Hogan. It is at least worth considering,. Hogan is a key part of the Dees bright future. 

Played ok without Hogan ??

 

  On 26/08/2018 at 08:47, Little Goffy said:

His peak value will also be when he is a restricted free agent. So how about we all calm down and let this settle itself in time.

 

his peak value to himself is when he is an RFA ... his peak value as a trade (form aside) is this year.

Witness the dilemna facing WCE re Gaff and whether they match the offer and then trade etc or take the compensatory pick.

  On 26/08/2018 at 22:53, Diamond_Jim said:

his peak value to himself is when he is an RFA ... his peak value as a trade (form aside) is this year.

Witness the dilemna facing WCE re Gaff and whether they match the offer and then trade etc or take the compensatory pick.

Yes. A very distinct difference.

I think something many need to step back from is any individual preferences for players.

Many simply want Jesse to be part of any Demon future...and then align an argument to suit.

I want the best possible team..best possible coaches etc.

This may include Hogan...it may not...it certainly doesn't HAVE to.

We've actually won a lot of games without Jesse.

We played ok yesterday.

I've no real preference...but very happy to entertain offers whilst his value is high.

It's about the club making sure it's always on the fastest escalator.

In 2017 most of our wins were without him. While that is not the case this year we have won two from two against top eight sides without him. Room for thought. 

Weid progressing nicely.