On 26/07/2018 at 04:17, Gorgoroth said:

Frost coming towards the wing instead of tracking Hawkins through the middle.

The whole last few minutes were atrocious. In the time Gawn went off, the leaders should have had time to get things set up right and convey what needed to be done.

There has to be a degree of self accountability as well though. The leaders shouldn’t expect to have to explain to Frost that you either need to go with Hawkins or cut off the next option; getting stuck in the middle helps nobody. That’s just one example The majority of the mistakes I’ve noticed were just wrong choices in the heat of the moment. It’s don’t think you can blame that on leadership.

  On 26/07/2018 at 09:05, Nasher said:

There has to be a degree of self accountability as well though. The leaders shouldn’t expect to have to explain to Frost that you either need to go with Hawkins or cut off the next option; getting stuck in the middle helps nobody. That’s just one example The majority of the mistakes I’ve noticed were just wrong choices in the heat of the moment. It’s don’t think you can blame that on leadership.

There was no leadership from any "Leaders" so .... Yes you can.

 

  On 26/07/2018 at 08:58, Fork 'em said:

Lets face it , they cannot hit enough targets to run a clock down anyway.
So we kick torps in hope instead.

 

Unfortunately you are probably right

Also if we were smart, with a 5 goal lead in the last quarter, you can take minutes out of game during the last 15 minutes. Then the last 2 minutes would probably not have been a problem. 

  On 26/07/2018 at 09:05, Nasher said:

There has to be a degree of self accountability as well though. The leaders shouldn’t expect to have to explain to Frost that you either need to go with Hawkins or cut off the next option; getting stuck in the middle helps nobody. That’s just one example The majority of the mistakes I’ve noticed were just wrong choices in the heat of the moment. It’s don’t think you can blame that on leadership.

No, Frost should have known better. But the moment Max went off it gave them 1 minute to instruct and to set up properly.  Not sure any of that happened.

  On 26/07/2018 at 07:48, KLV said:

Remember stkilda beating us with a goal in literally the dying seconds of the game a couple of a seasons ago, I distinctly remember the club talk of the learnings from that game. They were able to demonstrate the ‘learnings ‘ and protect their narrow lead shortly after, with that amazing win over west coast in Perth -tommy Mac kicking that miraculous goal over his head. Remember him not stopping to celebrate but instructing team mates demonstratively, what to do to protect the narrow lead.

they forgot the learnings 

First thing i thought of after the initial shock of losing last week. (Although that took about an hour to subside)

  On 26/07/2018 at 10:02, Gorgoroth said:

No, Frost should have known better. But the moment Max went off it gave them 1 minute to instruct and to set up properly.  Not sure any of that happened.

The first lesson every Melbourne coach and player should learn is not to count on Frost to know anything. The best approach is to treat him like an athletically-gifted manchild, or else some kind of football-playing robot.

Give him simple instructions and he'll follow them to the best of his absurd athletic ability. Fail to explain things clearly enough though and Sambot will proceed to beat Tom Hawkins in a one-on-one marking contest, but then bolt down the field and hoof it directly to a nest of cats for no reason whatever because his programming has gone haywire.

Edited July 26, 20186 yr by Chook

The more I play and watch sport, the more I think that the difference between the good and great is decision-making.

  On 26/07/2018 at 03:48, MSFebey said:

Yeah I missed it too, until I saw the replay of it a couple of nights ago and Tom Mc telling the umpire about Gawn bleeding, fair to say they all went it to panic mode.

 

  On 26/07/2018 at 03:56, daisycutter said:

yeah, so many mistakes and lack of common sense in those last 2 minutes

the more i watch it the more i see

This is what Goody was getting at, about us playing more big games from here on in.   Our composure will start to grow the more we play for sheep-stations.

Lack of composure spreads thru the team and effects all...    Just like someones lack of effort or courage spreads thru, bringing down the teams mojo.

 

The whole last Qtr,,, and a bit in the 2nd, if I recall correctly, the team lacked composure.   both same ends.

  On 26/07/2018 at 11:05, Rogue said:

The more I play and watch sport, the more I think that the difference between the good and great is decision-making.

Good decisions are useless if you can't hit the target.

 

Edited July 26, 20186 yr by Fork 'em

  On 26/07/2018 at 12:50, Fork 'em said:

Good decisions are useless if you can't hit the target.

 

If you can't hit targets you're not good.

  On 26/07/2018 at 07:04, Win4theAges said:

School boy stuff really,  a years worth of learning in 2 minutes, lets hope we learn from all our mistakes from that last quarter.

Players, Coaches and everyone involved with the MFC.

Goodwin’s favourite response at press conferences “we’ll learn from that’

How was Geelong allowed to perfectly execute a ‘set play’ from the kickout with 40 seconds to go???? 

The blame doesn’t just fall on the players!

 

 

  On 26/07/2018 at 23:32, Big Carl said:

Goodwin’s favourite response at press conferences “we’ll learn from that’

How was Geelong allowed to perfectly execute a ‘set play’ from the kickout with 40 seconds to go???? 

The blame doesn’t just fall on the players!

 

 

It's not the first time that's happened to us or we've done it to others in the last few years. Talk is soooo cheap in football

  On 26/07/2018 at 06:20, Fork 'em said:

You can't practice that sort of intensity.
It comes down to plain football smarts, and we're the dumbest club out there.

 

Wrong, intensity is a creation and execution ideal for the training track.

BS.
You reckon they're gonna push themselves as hard on the track as they do the last 2 minutes of big stakes close game.
Don't think so.
The performance managers wouldn't even allow it.

Edited July 27, 20186 yr by Fork 'em

  On 26/07/2018 at 05:54, Moonshadow said:

So, why the f... don't they practice these scenarios at training? I said this on another thread.

I've been to training a number of times over the last 12 mths and this is clearly not practiced. Defenders on forwards at the end of training (exhaustion) with 2 points up or down and heap the pressure on them with a real countdown clock. It's easy to talk about what went wrong, but they also need to practice.

It's not like we haven't been in these situations in real games ?

Happening once is bad luck maybe. But the club has a pattern - falls clearly at Goodwin's feet, and poor on field direction.

We don't have a Hodge/Selwood/Hurn/Kennedy type leadership standard so necessary in tight situations, let alone the team giving back a 29 point lead .

I've been banging on about this for a long time but our decision making when we take a mark is atrocious.

If you are going o play-on then play-on straight away, otherwise get right back behind the mark (far enough so you can kick back over the man on the mark and not on an angle) and give yourself space to take a kick without any pressure.

Too often in that last quarter we rushed the ball when there was no need and didn't use our full seven seconds.

  On 26/07/2018 at 11:05, Rogue said:

The more I play and watch sport, the more I think that the difference between the good and great is decision-making.

Especially under pressure. 

  On 26/07/2018 at 07:04, Win4theAges said:

School boy stuff really,  a years worth of learning in 2 minutes, lets hope we learn from all our mistakes from that last quarter.

Players, Coaches and everyone involved with the MFC.

We have dropped so many close games after hitting the front late and nothing changes.

What makes you think we'll do things any different from here WW? 

The way I see it we just hit P for panic every time a game is on the line with minutes to go.

I've never seen us stack the backline and go man on man yet.  We just seem to play the same manic attacking game and bomb it long.

What's the definition of insanity again....I can only deduce that this club must be completely mad!  Not unlike this ol' fella....

 

  On 26/07/2018 at 12:50, Fork 'em said:

Good decisions are useless if you can't hit the target.

 

FE that's been my bugbear at this club for decades.  We have Fritschkrieg and to a lessor degree Salem/Big M from middle going inside forward and that's about it.

Although I have noticed Clarry getting a little more adventurous / effective? here.

I'll say it again for the millionth time...if Goody trains and drills the shizen heusen on this and makes 'preference' selections based on who plays each role at a similar level but generally opts for the player who is more accurate by foot (and uses it more often effectively on game day), it should (in theory) start taking us to another level all together. Both on the scoreboard and our ability to protect a lead and ice close games against rated opponents.

He should make it part of the whole team/club mantra... If you can hit targets and do so regularly... your  chances of playing (or retaining your place) improve markedly.

Two/three players, fairly similar in other abilities / defensive aspects but one gets the nod as he has the ability to hit more targets under many different scenarios (real pressure/perceived pressure/squeezed through traffic on 45s etc) by foot.  Same for scoring.

And the measurement for doing so is at the coach's fingertips and readily available.  Kick Ratings are already well and truly a factor in every AFL club's pro stats arsenal...no excuses.  The same method should also be used at the trade selection table when deciding to go after exisiting AFL players (eg, Gaff vs XYZ player etc...provided the difference is meaningful enough)...

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-20/who-is-the-best-kick-in-the-afl-the-results-may-surprise-you

Edited July 27, 20186 yr by Rusty Nails

  On 26/07/2018 at 23:32, Big Carl said:

Goodwin’s favourite response at press conferences “we’ll learn from that’

How was Geelong allowed to perfectly execute a ‘set play’ from the kickout with 40 seconds to go???? 

The blame doesn’t just fall on the players!

Of course it is the players. 

40 seconds to go and the players don't set up properly, don't get back behind the ball and don't chase their opponents down the center and you want to blame the coach?

I can understanding blaming the coach for not moving Frost to Hawkins 1-2 goals earlier, but not for the last 40 seconds. 

  On 27/07/2018 at 14:47, Rusty Nails said:

We have dropped so many close games after hitting the front late and nothing changes.

 

I've never seen us stack the backline and go man on man yet.  We just seem to play the same manic attacking game and bomb it long.

 

 

Against Eagles last year in Perth we nearly lost that through Stacking the backline in the final play from the re-start Eagles easily cleared from the bounce. Its not always the way to go  especially in centre clearances .

  On 26/07/2018 at 23:32, Big Carl said:

Goodwin’s favourite response at press conferences “we’ll learn from that’

How was Geelong allowed to perfectly execute a ‘set play’ from the kickout with 40 seconds to go???? 

The blame doesn’t just fall on the players!

 

 

I hate giving Robbo credit but he was right when he wrote this on Monday (small quote not full article)

By the time Melbourne gets its act together it will be the best educated team in the competition. After every damning loss coach Simon Goodwin says his players “will learn from that’’. They will, but frustrations have reached boiling point. 

 

  On 27/07/2018 at 14:47, Rusty Nails said:

We have dropped so many close games after hitting the front late and nothing changes.

What makes you think we'll do things any different from here WW? 

The way I see it we just hit P for panic every time a game is on the line with minutes to go.

I've never seen us stack the backline and go man on man yet.  We just seem to play the same manic attacking game and bomb it long.

What's the definition of insanity again....I can only deduce that this club must be completely mad!  Not unlike this ol' fella....

 

Trying too stay positive Rusty?

Carbon copy of last year this game. Destroyed Geelong in the 3rd last week too though, and we all know what happened there.

Got to go on with it.