POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 16

[Redleg 42,195]

33 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

 

If it's a behind when running into the goal post when holding the ball, then the correct decision was made in review, 

It isn't and it wasn't.

[Skuit 10,031]

9 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

While it's hard to gauge against a side like Freo, I think the midfield have been able to work out the clearance issues we were having a few weeks ago.  Last night we won the clearances 42-28, but this time it felt as though we weren't getting in each others way as much.  It felt as though we spread much better, giving us an outlet handpass that we could then use to run out of the stoppage.  It did help that Gawn was able to dominate Darcy and Apeness, but it seems as though we're working far better in there than previous weeks.

And there's reasonable wisdom in the contention that a gazillion points doesn't necessarily translate to a gazillion goals if a team had kicked straight, in that the ball is returned to the middle and there's less forward repeat points. But on this occasion I was so confident in our clearance ability against Freo and forward movement that I think if we'd kicked straight we could have put on 30.

Looking at the replay - I would say that at least 12 of the points were high-percentage shots or very easily missed open opportunities (not counting the high number of dropped marks in the fifty where he had clear hands to the ball in front position), whereas we didn't really score any low percentage goals. Got over the line after nearly mucking a few up and got given a couple of soft freebies (balanced in part by the Petracca review error an instance or two the other way). 

But if you take two thirds of those misses and add a quarter of the longer-shots that's an extra 12 goals right there alone. The conditions were bad but this was a complete annihilation in the centre - with all due respect for the poor opposition. In other circumstances, the clear equivalent of a 100-point win. We were effectively unlucky. 

[DEE fence 5,061]

2 hours ago, Skuit said:

And there's reasonable wisdom in the contention that a gazillion points doesn't necessarily translate to a gazillion goals if a team had kicked straight, in that the ball is returned to the middle and there's less forward repeat points. But on this occasion I was so confident in our clearance ability against Freo and forward movement that I think if we'd kicked straight we could have put on 30.

Looking at the replay - I would say that at least 12 of the points were high-percentage shots or very easily missed open opportunities (not counting the high number of dropped marks in the fifty where he had clear hands to the ball in front position), whereas we didn't really score any low percentage goals. Got over the line after nearly mucking a few up and got given a couple of soft freebies (balanced in part by the Petracca review error an instance or two the other way). 

But if you take two thirds of those misses and add a quarter of the longer-shots that's an extra 12 goals right there alone. The conditions were bad but this was a complete annihilation in the centre - with all due respect for the poor opposition. In other circumstances, the clear equivalent of a 100-point win. We were effectively unlucky. 

agree 100% was going to post similar- this game made me think we have improved over the last 3, opposition not withstanding. I liked that our radar was off but we didnt go into a funk. And our defense  worked well.

[loges 6,767]

10 hours ago, Pates said:

Thanks for those highlights Petraccattack, I'm really glad I wasn't able to watch this live. I would've been tearing my hair out. Some of those misses are just ridiculous.

But the bit of play that nails my belief that Lewis MUST be dropped started with him not wanting to properly shepherd, then lazily kick the ball in danger, and give up a 50 metre penalty that ends in a goal. Disgusting from a leader and unacceptable. 

Let's get our kicking boots on for next week.

Where Lewis is concerned a lot already have their kicking boots on.

[loges 6,767]

Any match review decision I thought they were supposed to be done within 24 hours of the game?

[Nasher 33,686]

Looking forward to this week’s edition of “All the Behinds (thanks to Haymes Paints)”.

[In Harmes Way 7,889]

6 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Looking forward to this week’s edition of “All the Behinds (thanks to Haymes Paints)”.

Might as well just watch the full replay Nasher, the “highlights” reel wouldnt be much shorter

[SFebes 4,884]

Busy weekend but a good much needed win. I like how they didn't throw in the towel after so many behinds, a common scene across the league, scoreboard pressure is important. They say the good players stand out in the wet, well take a bow Salem, Fritsch and Oliver - they are our 3 players streets ahead of the rest on our list skills wise.

I thought Hogans intent was there in Q1, unfortunately didn't get reward for effort. He and Tom need to stop jumping for the same ball.

Salem and Fritsch, serious foot skills that we we need so much of.

The selections all played their roles: Frost was solid and one thing I did notice was he always lowered his eyes and hit targets instead of his normal run and bomb it. Garlett was unlucky not to finish with 2 goals (poor decision by review) I'd take that from him every day of the week. It's his perceived pressure that is underrated and won't show up in the stats column, defenders knows he is there. While I haven't been a huge fan of Billy he played very well, provided zip and elusiveness and skills looked good, he deserved his spot after form at Casey.

It was clear that the players got a rocket, the defensive effort was certainly there, Petracca stood up and played a fantastic game, I hope he goes on with it now and strings some good games together until EOY, played more midfield and I think he plays that role much better than as a forward, just needs some more fitness. It was complete dominance and we should have won by 100+.

Lewis, hmmm.... Jones looks like the game has caught up with him this year, a bit like Ablett currently, looking for cheap handballs out the back of packs.

I like Joel Smiths desperation, but unsure if he's got any skills yet?

But, we still haven't beaten anyone, Freo are putrid and were without two of their best players. We defended better but we are still making the same mistakes, long bombs across the ground, 2m bullet handballs from Jones, Oliver and Viney, overhandballing, forwards jumping for the same ball. I'm not sure the Gawn resting forward works either, he's a very inconsistent kick, the mark always looks good but hes a worful shot on goal and I feel he's just getting in the way of Jesse and Tom. I just hope the bad bulldogs turn up next week, not the good ones. Still, I will take a 54 point win and wasnt that confident before the game.

re Darwin game, or even both NT games, if we look sluggish v Dogs (who we looked sluggish against earlier this year after Alice) then some serious questions need to be asked of the club, they aren't thinking of players' welfare either and these games can hider top 8 chances.

I was watching the game muted, so unsure how Ed Langdon went? Didn't really notice him too much?

 

 

[Deeoldfart 8,205]

15 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Lewis opted to try and hack the ball out of mid air rather than pick it up at least 3 times last night, being pinged for in danger the final time. Not sure if laziness or he just has an old man's back (or thought it was a better option given the conditions) but it stood out

It could be either Dr.G, but given the slippery conditions, it might also have been the old 'wet weather' tactic of just getting the ball forward at all costs.  If that is what it was, it clearly didn't work out as planned, but I'm prepared to give Lewis the benefit of the doubt on those transgressions.

[Dee Zephyr 19,333]

If anyone is concerned about recovery after the Darwin game, don’t be. The players ran rings around 10yr olds at the school holiday clinic at Goschs this morning. 

All players were in an extremely good mood after a winning weekend. Well organised clinic with lots of different activities and the all the kids present had a ball. Well done MFC!

Enough about the kids now, I needed a Monday footy fix. Managed to sneak a few questions to some of the boys. Apart from the obvious heat and humidity issues, they have recovered rather well and will be fine come Saturday ( let’s hope). 

Great to see some of the parents give a big welcome and good to see you back to AVB.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,895]

1 hour ago, Deeoldfart said:

It could be either Dr.G, but given the slippery conditions, it might also have been the old 'wet weather' tactic of just getting the ball forward at all costs.  If that is what it was, it clearly didn't work out as planned, but I'm prepared to give Lewis the benefit of the doubt on those transgressions.

Old Hawthorn tactic. Sam Mitchell did it in just about every game when under pressure. Move it on rather than try to pick it up and get tackled. Usually praised for his quick thinking.

Edited July 9, 2018 by america de cali

[DubDee 26,795]

5 hours ago, loges said:

Any match review decision I thought they were supposed to be done within 24 hours of the game?

Micheal Christian is currently spinning the MRO wheel.  He will be speaking at 3:30 today to fill us in

[Nasher 33,686]

1 hour ago, Deeoldfart said:

It could be either Dr.G, but given the slippery conditions, it might also have been the old 'wet weather' tactic of just getting the ball forward at all costs.  If that is what it was, it clearly didn't work out as planned, but I'm prepared to give Lewis the benefit of the doubt on those transgressions.

I thought the same. We’ve been known on here in the past to give the players stick for attempting to be too cute and overpossess the ball in wet weather footy before, so it bemuses me a bit that now we’re hanging it on a player for *not* possessing it in slippery conditions. I thought Lewis was just skipping the bit where he fumbled the clappers out of it like everyone else was.

Maybe I’m being too kind, but I thought he deserved benefit of the doubt too.

[What 18,810]

4. The smaller the better for Simon Goodwin

Yes, it was Fremantle, it was slippery, and the Demons only managed 13 majors. But 37 scoring shots from 78 inside 50s against the Dockers must make Simon Goodwin stick with two talls and plenty of crumbers in attack. The inclusion of Jeff Garlett and Charlie Spargo – playing together for the first time – brought intensity and pressure, the Demons laying a season-high 26 tackles in their forward 50. Clayton Oliver and Christian Petracca offered plenty as resting forwards, Bayley Fritsch impressed as a high half-forward and Jesse Hogan and Tom McDonald played where they should be – closer to home. Dropped duo Sam Weideman and Mitch Hannan will need to bang down the door in the VFL to force their way in. 

 

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-08/nine-things-we-learned-from-round-16

[John Crow Batty 8,895]

Lewis and Jones $2000 fines each and Hogan $1500 for mucking about against Freo.

[Axis of Bob 11,945]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

 

Maybe I’m being too kind, but I thought he deserved benefit of the doubt too.

I find that most people are so used to watching football that they don’t fully understand how difficult it is to play the game at this level. 

This is especially the case when the ball is slippery. The game is so fast that you need to be clean, otherwise you get hammered. So much so that having clean hands is probably the number one asset that recruiters will use to rule out potential draftees. Wet games are when you see low scores and slow ball movement.

But this sort of game is very difficult for a player because it’s slippery, but not enough that every ball is fumbled. We see it here and also the Hawthorn game earlier. You can’t win with a wet weather plan, but you are going to make a lot of mistakes. The margins are so small either way.

It’s like a Formula 1 race in the rain. If it’s fully wet then you can put on wet tyres. But if the track is only a little bit wet then you can’t use the wet tyres even though it’s easier to drive because the other cars on dry weather slick tyres, for all their difficulty in the conditions, will be so much faster over the course of the lap.

In slippery conditions you need to take the game on to win, but you need to appreciate that this will also result in more mistakes than usual.

 

[SFebes 4,884]

I'm no fan of Lewis but kicking it off the ground and gaining metres is a percentage play. Tigers do it very often, even their stars kick it forward or tap it on along the ground, they have done it for the last year. They aren't the most skillful side in the comp but they are definitely the most desperate and that tactic works well for them with the leg speed to follow the ball up.

[John Crow Batty 8,895]

4 minutes ago, SFebey said:

I'm no fan of Lewis but kicking it off the ground and gaining metres is a percentage play. Tigers do it very often, even their stars kick it forward or tap it on along the ground, they have done it for the last year. They aren't the most skillful side in the comp but they are definitely the most desperate and that tactic works well for them with the leg speed to follow the ball up.

Ben Brown won the game for North against the Bulldogs with a hack kick off the ground to a free player in the goal square the other week. Match winning play. If we used somewhat similar tactics against Collingwood in tight spots we would have fared a lot better IMO

Edited July 9, 2018 by america de cali

[Nasher 33,686]

5 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

I find that most people are so used to watching football that they don’t fully understand how difficult it is to play the game at this level. 

This is especially the case when the ball is slippery. The game is so fast that you need to be clean, otherwise you get hammered. So much so that having clean hands is probably the number one asset that recruiters will use to rule out potential draftees. Wet games are when you see low scores and slow ball movement.

But this sort of game is very difficult for a player because it’s slippery, but not enough that every ball is fumbled. We see it here and also the Hawthorn game earlier. You can’t win with a wet weather plan, but you are going to make a lot of mistakes. The margins are so small either way.

It’s like a Formula 1 race in the rain. If it’s fully wet then you can put on wet tyres. But if the track is only a little bit wet then you can’t use the wet tyres even though it’s easier to drive because the other cars on dry weather slick tyres, for all their difficulty in the conditions, will be so much faster over the course of the lap.

In slippery conditions you need to take the game on to win, but you need to appreciate that this will also result in more mistakes than usual.

 

The slight cynic in me thinks some just like bagging players. Lewis was on a hiding to nothing with that play - he probably took the view that it was moving away from him too quickly, he was surrounded by opposition, and the ball was slippery, therefore his situational awareness (and significant experience in the game) told him not to bother. It’s unfortunate that two of them resulted in turnovers (a mark at half back and a kicking in danger free), but there’s a big likelihood the alternative result wouldn’t have been any better. It’s easy to criticise the player for what actually happened when you get to invent the counterfactual, rather than the player who would be held responsible for it.

It’s a bit like those criticisms of Lewis over that “shepherd” that he didn’t lay. The word the umpires use for that type of shepherd is “BLOCK!”, preceded by a whistle and a point in the opposition’s direction. But again, we want to bag Lewis and we get to invent the counterfactual, so let’s run with it instead.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

The slight cynic in me thinks some just like bagging players. Lewis was on a hiding to nothing with that play - he probably took the view that it was moving away from him too quickly, he was surrounded by opposition, and the ball was slippery, therefore his situational awareness (and significant experience in the game) told him not to bother. It’s unfortunate that two of them resulted in turnovers (a mark at half back and a kicking in danger free), but there’s a big likelihood the alternative result wouldn’t have been any better. It’s easy to criticise the player for what actually happened when you get to invent the counterfactual, rather than the player who would be held responsible for it.

It’s a bit like those criticisms of Lewis over that “shepherd” that he didn’t lay. The word the umpires use for that type of shepherd is “BLOCK!”, preceded by a whistle and a point in the opposition’s direction. But again, we want to bag Lewis and we get to invent the counterfactual, so let’s run with it instead.

The only issue I have with Lewis is his lack of coolness. He has given away so many dumb costly free kicks, and he never learns.

Did he kick the ball off the ground too often? Yes. Is he as slow as the day is long? Yes. 

But if he is in the side for leadership, which he is, and he continues to do dumb things like elbowing players in the guts off the ball, giving away 50 meter penalties for umpire abuse, and clearly kicking in danger, then he is more costly than helpful.

I completely appreciate what he brings to the side, and he is an elite reader of the play, and he can kick the ball very well, but the core of his role in the side is constantly compromised by his hotheadedness. 

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-09/aflca-votes-round-16-big-max-goes-top-sixgoal-hawk-scores-10

Big Max on top of the ALFCA votes.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

3 minutes ago, Devil is in the Detail said:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-09/aflca-votes-round-16-big-max-goes-top-sixgoal-hawk-scores-10

Big Max on top of the ALFCA votes.

Great stuff.  He should almost be a lock for AA selection now, although Grundy is breathing down his neck and he has the added advantage of playing for a Collingwood side in top form.

Does anyone think Gawny is a smokey for the Brownlow, or will he struggle to poll votes?

[MurDoc516 1,529]

Our two way running wasn't really tested. We still played a really high line and got caught a few times out the back. Lucky for us Freo don't have a forward line and are also pretty terrible when it comes to being composed and making the right decision. Bulldogs will probably test us more, but i still think we will win that game. Still not confident about some of our future games.

[Willmoy1947 4,261]

18 minutes ago, Devil is in the Detail said:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-09/aflca-votes-round-16-big-max-goes-top-sixgoal-hawk-scores-10

Big Max on top of the ALFCA votes.

Round 16 top ten moments topped at NO 1, by the blindness of a free kick not being paid against a full forward, who every week puts his hands on the player he decides to use as a step ladder 

[Dee Zephyr 19,333]

37 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Great stuff.  He should almost be a lock for AA selection now, although Grundy is breathing down his neck and he has the added advantage of playing for a Collingwood side in top form.

Does anyone think Gawny is a smokey for the Brownlow, or will he struggle to poll votes?

I think he’s a massive chance for the Brownlow Wise.

I had a peek at the odds earlier. He’s on the second line of betting with Cripps at $7. If anyone likes odds of $7 surely it’s Max rather than Cripps you pick with your hard earned. Cripps is very good but one win for them?? That would be extraordinary if he can win it playing for that team.

Also Gaff $11.