Can we compete with the best?

[Gator 17,305]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

They certainly do to the MFC. 

This EXACT problem should have been addressed and sorted after Rounds 22-23 last year, once and for all

But clearly it hasn’t. 

 

That's far from certain. 

Port were smashed in the middle and 19 times out of 20 they lose that match.  And 10 points hardly constitutes anything worth worrying about.

Richmond are a better and more seasoned team.  That's not a mental issue.  They're just better.

The other losses early in the year are irrelevant.  Our game-plan, structure, and personnel is now different.  Holding on to those losses merely exposes a lack of understanding.

Jaded cuts slack to West Coast for losing to a flaky Essendon because they were sans two important players.  But Melbourne's own supporters don't cut the team slack for being sans McDonald and Viney early in the year.  They're just as important to us.

It's a long year and you should be smart enough to know that you shouldn't make cast iron assertions.  Plenty can and will change by year's end and not just for the MFC.

In rounds 7, 8, and 9 last year Richmond lost 3 games by under a goal.  Their equivalent WYL supporter would have been carrying on like a pork chop saying how mentally fragile they are.

Their side 10 weeks later was vastly different to their early year side.

Cast iron conclusions by supporters are usually based on a pile of hot dung.

Edited June 27, 2018 by ProDee

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

That's far from certain. 

Port were smashed in the middle and 19 times out of 20 they lose that match.  And 10 points hardly constitutes anything worth worrying about.

Richmond are a better and more seasoned team.  That's not a mental issue.  They're just better.

The other losses early in the year are irrelevant.  Our game-plan, structure, and personnel is now different.  Holding on to those losses merely exposes a lack of understanding.

Jaded cuts slack to West Coast for losing to a flaky Essendon because they were sans two important players.  But Melbourne's own supporters don't cut the team slack for being sans McDonald and Viney early in the year.  They're just as important to us.

It's a long year and you should be smart enough to know that you shouldn't make cast iron assertions.  Plenty can and will change by year's end and not just for the MFC.

In rounds 7, 8, and 9 last year Richmond lost 3 games by under a goal.  Their equivalent WYL supporter would have been carrying on like a pork chop saying how mentally fragile they are.

Their side 10 weeks later was vastly different to their early year side.

Cast iron conclusions by supporters are usually based on a pile of hot dung.

Who said i was making cast iron assertions on just this year. 

The same problem has bestowed the club for decades. THAT IS MY POINT. 

It’s not just this year, it is engrained into the club psyche. 

We don’t handle pressure. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

We've been able to win and compete some big games over the last 18 months.

The Crows in Adelaide, Eagles in Perth, Queen's Birthday, smashed Port at the G, had the Cats on toast until Gawn did his hammy....

No doubt we've also fallen short in some big games as well, but every side has form in that regard.  ProDee has pointed that out better than I could.  

To me, we have the ability to compete with any side in the competition.  It's just about better consistency and continuing to get more experience in to what is still a young list.  We're tracking fine.

[Gator 17,305]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Who said i was making cast iron assertions on just this year. 

The same problem has bestowed the club for decades. THAT IS MY POINT. 

It’s not just this year, it is engrained into the club psyche. 

We don’t handle pressure. 

Previous years and playing groups are utterly irrelevant.  Surely you're not that stupid. 

Hawthorn were the competition's easy beats for the first 30 plus years of their existence.  By your reckoning it should have stayed that way forever. 

You're funny.  ?

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

Just now, ProDee said:

Previous years and playing groups are utterly irrelevant.  Surely you're not that stupid. 

Hawthorn were the competition's easy beats for the first 30 plus years of their existence.  By your reckoning it should have stayed that way forever. 

You're funny.  ?

Is that the best you’ve got. 

You do know who mentored John Kennedy Snr, don’t you?

 That started “kennedy’s Commandos” back in the late 1950’s.....

 

Norman Smith....

Previous Years are part of our history, the last 54 being most inglorious

ignore them at your own peril

[Gator 17,305]

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Is that the best you’ve got. 

You do know who mentored John Kennedy Snr, don’t you?

 That started “kennedy’s Commandos” back in the late 1950’s.....

 

Norman Smith....

Previous Years are part of our history, the last 54 being most inglorious

ignore them at your own peril

You're illogical and funny.

Previous regimes mean nothing.

Fancy judging the 2018 MFC by the standards of the club in 1970.  Hahahaha

Take up "stand-up:".

Edited June 27, 2018 by ProDee

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

3 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You're illogical and funny.

Previous regimes mean nothing.

Fancy judging the 2018 by the standards of the club in 1970.  Hahahaha

Take up "stand-up:".

Why Bother....

i had the same discussions 10 years ago. 

I was actually right...

[hemingway 7,615]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

We've been able to win and compete some big games over the last 18 months.

The Crows in Adelaide, Eagles in Perth, Queen's Birthday, smashed Port at the G, had the Cats on toast until Gawn did his hammy....

No doubt we've also fallen short in some big games as well, but every side has form in that regard.  ProDee has pointed that out better than I could.  

To me, we have the ability to compete with any side in the competition.  It's just about better consistency and continuing to get more experience in to what is still a young list.  We're tracking fine.

Wise words. 

Many of us tend to be myopic and impatient when looking at our team and view results against our expectations which rise exponentially when we win or string a few wins together. Well it certainly applies to me if no one else. Rationality is diluted by our passion for our team and our impossible demand for constant success.  We celebrate success but find it hard to deal with failure.  We forget to look at the trials and tribulations that all teams and supporters experience over a season or many seasons. 

As the old saying goes we are never as good as we think we are (when winning) and never as bad as we think we are (when losing). 

Resujts are influenced by factors that include experience, injury, fatigue, form, skills, game plan and horrific umpiring.  We certainly need to acquire more players with the skills and strength of mind to win matches more consistently. We have a number of players that are not really up to it, players who are over the hill, lacking skills, and who are unable to have consistent form that makes a team formidable such as Richmond. 

[drdrake 3,163]

Prodee, respect the half glass full thinking you have for the 2018 side.  We will be proven right or wrong over the next 9 weeks.  Some on this site including me have lost any real confidence in the club to deliver and it will take a lot for us to change this.  Winning 6 out of the next 9 will certainly put a few of us back in our box and give us some belief in our club, but as it stands today our club has proved nothing in 2018 except beaten up on sides we should have.

[old dee 23,782]

13 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Wise words. 

Many of us tend to be myopic and impatient when looking at our team and view results against our expectations which rise exponentially when we win or string a few wins together. Well it certainly applies to me if no one else. Rationality is diluted by our passion for our team and our impossible demand for constant success.  We celebrate success but find it hard to deal with failure.  We forget to look at the trials and tribulations that all teams and supporters experience over a season or many seasons. 

As the old saying goes we are never as good as we think we are (when winning) and never as bad as we think we are (when losing). 

Resujts are influenced by factors that include experience, injury, fatigue, form, skills, game plan and horrific umpiring.  We certainly need to acquire more players with the skills and strength of mind to win matches more consistently. We have a number of players that are not really up to it, players who are over the hill, lacking skills, and who are unable to have consistent form that makes a team formidable such as Richmond. 

Rational thought Ernest what is wrong with you? I suspect you are not really a Dees supporter.

Seriously though after 54 years lots of us are a little impatient and I for one am running out of years. However I never thought we would be in a GF in 2018 let alone win one. However I am going to be seriously disappointed if we are still doing this next year.

Edited June 27, 2018 by old dee

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

2 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Prodee, respect the half glass full thinking you have for the 2018 side.  We will be proven right or wrong over the next 9 weeks.  Some on this site including me have lost any real confidence in the club to deliver and it will take a lot for us to change this.  Winning 6 out of the next 9 will certainly put a few of us back in our box and give us some belief in our club, but as it stands today our club has proved nothing in 2018 except beaten up on sides we should have.

^^ This 100%

[mauriesy 7,261]

52 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The same problem has bestowed the club for decades. THAT IS MY POINT.

You've got two choices ... look backwards with despair at the past, or look forward with optimism at where our group of players is going.

I prefer the latter, and I'm with ProDee. While I think great things in 2018 might be premature (although you never discount anything) it's still a stepping stone.

In 2019 and 2020 we'll see this team really arrive. Slashing your wrists in the meantime is, of course, your prerogative.

[Gator 17,305]

42 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Why Bother....

i had the same discussions 10 years ago. 

I was actually right...

Our culture pre Paul Roos and Peter Jackson was terrible, hence the club being in the doldrums.  That's not some mythical Norm Smith curse - booga booga - that's having the wrong people at the helm.

I believe we've now got the right people at the helm and a talented group of players, hence the past is irrelevant.

As I said, it's pure logic.  And you either have that or you don't.

?

Edited June 27, 2018 by ProDee

[Dr. Gonzo 24,197]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

They certainly do to the MFC. 

This EXACT problem should have been addressed and sorted after Rounds 22-23 last year, once and for all

But clearly it hasn’t. 

 

But those games were against middling to bottom teams

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

9 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Our culture pre Paul Roos and Peter Jackson was terrible, hence the club being in the doldrums.  That's not some mythical Norm Smith curse - booga booga - that's having the wrong people at the helm.

I believe we've now got the right people at the helm and a talented group of players, hence the past is irrelevant.

As I said, it's pure logic.  And you either have that or you don't.

?

Agreed 

but the past is not totally irrelevant, why, because onfield we still have the same problem - Stage Fright. Which is why this thread began. 

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But those games were against middling to bottom teams

Yes on paper. But they knew we have the soft underbelly when pressure is applied, and it still exists

[Gator 17,305]

26 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Agreed 

but the past is not totally irrelevant, why, because onfield we still have the same problem - Stage Fright. Which is why this thread began. 

 

I don't agree that we have stage fright.

Stage fright isn't belting Port's midfield in front of 45K rabid Port fans.

We didn't lose to Collingwood because of stage fright.  We just didn't play well.  That can still happen to young teams.

If you suffer from stage fright you don't methodically break hoodoos like we have over the last couple of years.

The number one contested team in the competition doesn't get stage fright.  A tough inside team that leads the competition in inside 50s and is top 3 in tackles and clearances doesn't get stage fright.

Outside down hill skiers get stage fright.

But a still young team is not immune to poor performances.  And it has nothing to do with poor regimes pre Paul Roos or stage fright.

[hemingway 7,615]

13 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I don't agree that we have stage fright.

Stage fright isn't belting Port's midfield in front of 45K rabid Port fans.

We didn't lose to Collingwood because of stage fright.  We just didn't play well.  That can still happen to young teams.

If you suffer from stage fright you don't methodically break hoodoos like we have over the last couple of years.

The number one contested team in the competition doesn't get stage fright.  A tough inside team that leads the competition in inside 50s and is top 3 in tackles and clearances doesn't get stage fright.

Outside down hill skiers get stage fright.

But a still young team is not immune to poor performances.  And it has nothing to do with poor regimes pre Paul Roos or stage fright.

i also don't think we have stage fright.

However, we still have player deficiencies that are exposed when our opponent comes out to play.  

We simply have some players who aren't good enough or don't play at a consistently high level for sufficient periods of time. 

In some cases, this may be due to inexperience or lack of maturity but we have a group of fringe players who don't cut the mustard.

To quote Captain Blood, "he's a good ordinary footballer."

We have a few.   

[drdrake 3,163]

As stated only the next 9 weeks will show us the answer to the topics question, if after that time the answer is no, we miss finals and really the season assessment will be a fail from a large percentage of our supporters.

Make no mistake we all want the answer to be yes and hope I'm proved wrong and I will be happy to cop my whack if I am, but unfortunately IMO we will not win the 6 out of 9.

[picket fence 17,071]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

We've been able to win and compete some big games over the last 18 months.

The Crows in Adelaide, Eagles in Perth, Queen's Birthday, smashed Port at the G, had the Cats on toast until Gawn did his hammy....

No doubt we've also fallen short in some big games as well, but every side has form in that regard.  ProDee has pointed that out better than I could.  

To me, we have the ability to compete with any side in the competition.  It's just about better consistency and continuing to get more experience in to what is still a young list.  We're tracking fine.

Give me a break 18 months?? Tracking Fine??

The year is 2018 the time is NOW!

We have succumbed to Geelong, Hawks, Collingwood, Port Adelaide, Richmond.

These sides have everything we haven't as mentioned above.

We have beaten No one in 2018! Dont give me Norf, or Essendrug, they were both playing shizen when we played them!

Until we unlock the style and game plan and personel that wins crunch games we shall remain perenial underachievers.

Not for one minute are we certs for a finals berth.

This is 2018, we still have not reached the consistency, outside run, and inside Class that make the Richmonds , Geelongs and West Coasts of this competition so good.

 

[Gator 17,305]

23 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Give me a break 18 months?? Tracking Fine??

The year is 2018 the time is NOW!

We have succumbed to Geelong, Hawks, Collingwood, Port Adelaide, Richmond.

These sides have everything we haven't as mentioned above.

We have beaten No one in 2018! Dont give me Norf, or Essendrug, they were both playing shizen when we played them!

Three of those losses were in the first five rounds when we were playing "shizen".  

I note you don't extend the same liberty to Melbourne as you do to Essendon and North when they were supposedly playing "shizen".  Even though we played North off a win..

You do realise Viney and Tom McDonald didn't play in those first 5 rounds ?  You do realise we're structuring our forward-line differently now ?  You do realise Brayshaw wasn't playing midfield then ?  You do realise we were getting caught out the back more then - still are, but those first few rounds were worse.  You do realise Salem was playing mid then and he's now gone down back ?

So many things have changed from those first 5 rounds.  How many sides do you think are playing the same as they were in rounds 1 or 2 ? 

Hawthorn have since lost to Brisbane and Geelong to Essendon.  As have West Coast.

This idea that there are these top teams who are "so good" is BS, friend.

 

[picket fence 17,071]

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

Three of those losses were in the first five rounds when we were playing "shizen".  

I note you don't extend the same liberty to Melbourne as you do to Essendon and North when they were supposedly playing "shizen".  Even though we played North off a win..

You do realise Viney and Tom McDonald didn't play in those first 5 rounds ?  You do realise we're structuring our forward-line differently now ?  You do realise Brayshaw wasn't playing midfield then ?  You do realise we were getting caught out the back more then - still are, but those first few rounds were worse.  You do realise Salem was playing mid then and he's now gone down back ?

So many things have changed from those first 5 rounds.  How many sides do you think are playing the same as they were in rounds 1 or 2 ? 

Hawthorn have since lost to Brisbane and Geelong to Essendon.  As have West Coast.

This idea that there are these top teams who are "so good" is BS, friend.

 

You do realise my friend that we have lost the last 2 with the inclusions as specified. And ex of Lever and possibly Garlett we have our best side in?

[Sir Why You Little 36,989]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I don't agree that we have stage fright.

Stage fright isn't belting Port's midfield in front of 45K rabid Port fans.

We didn't lose to Collingwood because of stage fright.  We just didn't play well.  That can still happen to young teams.

If you suffer from stage fright you don't methodically break hoodoos like we have over the last couple of years.

The number one contested team in the competition doesn't get stage fright.  A tough inside team that leads the competition in inside 50s and is top 3 in tackles and clearances doesn't get stage fright.

Outside down hill skiers get stage fright.

But a still young team is not immune to poor performances.  And it has nothing to do with poor regimes pre Paul Roos or stage fright.

Sections of our team are working very hard, but they are not in synch. 

Against the Filth the Midfield was smashed all day

Last Friday the Forward line was smashed all nighr

if it was only quarters i would agree with you, but it is for the entire game. 

Stage Fright, Soft Underbelly, same thing. 

We have suffered from it over many decades, and still do.

It is most galling now, because we have the most dominant ruckman in the comp, but we are still being beaten over 4 Quarters

9 weeks to go....

[sue 9,099]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sections of our team are working very hard, but they are not in synch. 

Against the Filth the Midfield was smashed all day

Last Friday the Forward line was smashed all nighr

if it was only quarters i would agree with you, but it is for the entire game. 

Stage Fright, Soft Underbelly, same thing. 

We have suffered from it over many decades, and still do.

It is most galling now, because we have the most dominant ruckman in the comp, but we are still being beaten over 4 Quarters

9 weeks to go....

Whatever one's view of our current failings or potential, 'many decades' of the past is not relevant since so many things have changed.  The only thing that is constant over those decades are the supporters, some of whom will never recover from MFCSS.  

[Gator 17,305]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

You do realise my friend that we have lost the last 2 with the inclusions as specified. And ex of Lever and possibly Garlett we have our best side in?

You do realise that a young team that hasn't played finals in 12 years isn't going to play to their best every round ?

In fact, no 2018 team.  

I mean, you do realise that, right ?

Edited June 27, 2018 by ProDee