18 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

Isn’t that Gawns account? I reckon he is just stirring the pot!

Definitely stirring the pot. Gawn would be well aware of all the dees fans that follow him. 

13 minutes ago, faultydet said:

I reckon he may simply be saying it's their final drink before heading home.

People look too deep into things sometimes.

He says on the 73 page of a thread devoted to one player on a forum devoted to one club...

 

 

Someone of quality (this word is in the eye of the beholder) needs to be traded,we need the currency. Overall I didn't think Watts did enough,but he is not the only experienced player in the same boat.

It is telling that the club has put on the mfc website the AFL article where Goodwin puts the trade Jack story  http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-10-02/-watts-cycle-hasnt-changed-goodwin

Note: the issue is no longer about 'failing expectations' it is about 'being in a rut'.

But it has not put up this AFL article where Jack states his love for the club: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-03/i-love-the-club-watts-not-keen-to-leave

Articles usually go up on club websites within a few hours of the AFL issuing them eg The Lever story is on the mfc website so there is no reason why the Jack story isn't there.

 

I'm not liking how our club is handling this.  If they put up one side of the story they should put up the other.  It seems the club is reluctant to do that.  I think supporters should be provided access to Jack's position whether the club likes it or not.

15 minutes ago, rpfc said:

He says on the 73 page of a thread devoted to one player on a forum devoted to one club...

 

 

Lols, said on the 300th thread devoted to said player.

I feel fro Jack right now, whatever your views are of  him as a footballer should not discredit his loyalty and his desire to continue with the MFC.

It seems from a far that Goodwin is playing a poor mans Russian roulette and surely deep down he wants Jack to stay.  There are very few better players in the AFL with ball in hand and I highly doubt we can trade him for someone with greater skills. I believe Watts will stay, cop his medicine and big PS and be a better player for it.

To let him go now is just crazy.

This is all getting tackier than a midday soap. ( Mfc that is ) 

"Survivor" seems like a battle of chess giants by comparison.

Watts has a contract. Supposedly the door is open and welcome. Jack doesn't want to go anywhere. The End

But it's not. Why's this even being talked about still ?

Agendas,motives and bullshlt being laid bare

Quite frankly im not overly impressed with this club just at the present.

And I thought it only the teens thatv"mucked up" this time of year !!

 

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

You forgot the fact that he still refuses to compete to an acceptable physical level

And the fact he STILL doesnt put both hands up in a pack marking contest.

Or the fact he still applies almost zero forward pressure.

Or the fact he still tackles like a fairy.

 

If you are going to quote "just the facts", you need to make a better effort at not cherry picking the facts that suit one side of an argument.

We cannot allow the "good bloke" argument to keep players on our list.

No mention of good bloke.  

so on the basis of your theory, if we only look at flaws

Vince should be gone. Turnovers. Poor tackle.  Poor discipline. 

Garlett should be gone. Tackles like a fairy.  Inconsistent. 

Tyson should be gone. Turnovers. Going backwards. Lacks pace. 

BTW forgot the fact that he rucked for 5 weeks, to bigger and stronger rucks in 2017. Watch the Geelong game. 

More Facts ...

Watts stands up when others go missing.

Watts kicks straight when others don’t. 

Watts wins games when others can’t. 

 

36 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Those of us who disagree would argue that 'Trading Watts = Standards Lifted' is an oversimplification and one last act of scapegoating Watts for the ills of the past.

"He has done nothing for 9 years" some cry - but will they give Weideman the benefit of the doubt for his two underwhelming years? Of course.

"Hadn't shown anything before 2016" is another call to the heavens and yet those some Dees supporters would argue that until 2014 the club was an absolute shambles and couldn't develop a Polaroid.

The standards at the beginning of the season that were not met should be the fundamental and only point of argument for moving Watts on. They definitely can be - but I would plead with Goodwin to run that bus over Kent, JKH, and the other two delistees who were apart of that midseason drinking session.

Let's share that love around, because it doesn't sit well with me that there is one singular sacrificial lamb on the altar of 'standards.'

I agree with some of your post. In reality only Goody knows the reasons. But as he has been put up for trade you would have to imagine he has burnt the trust of the coaching staff one too many times

2 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Lever coming, Watts likely going....  Gaff on the horizon too? And who knows what other players we are into.

Going to be a fun trade period for Demon fans,  bring it on.

I was looking forward to it. I had thought we were finally run super professionally, were culturally sound, and were becoming a destination club.

Then this - this has put the proverbial fire in the hole. It's been thoroughly amateurish - so much so, it reminds me of a period in this club's history that I never wished to experience ever again.

I can't see why Goodwin has taken to speaking publicly about this stuff. It's not cool. At the very least, that the club excitedly signed Watts up for 3 years not that long ago, plainly with the same level of knowledge of the player's skills, appetite for the contest, training standards and performance history as now, makes the club look absolutely negligent, or, if not negligent, malevolent.

I hope both parties can work together to bury the axe and sort this out amicably. I'm sweating on this in fact - I cannot endure being taken back to the Dark Ages. I've been there. For an eternity. It sucked.

 

 

Agree. It’s ugly. Just when are on the cusp. 

Standards. Rut. Inconsistency. 

Rubbish .  6-7 others would have to go or not be extended contracts. 

Goodwin can’t say salary cap pressures need a sacrifice. 

4 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

No mention of good bloke.  

so on the basis of your theory, if we only look at flaws

Vince should be gone. Turnovers. Poor tackle.  Poor discipline. 

Garlett should be gone. Tackles like a fairy.  Inconsistent. 

Tyson should be gone. Turnovers. Going backwards. Lacks pace. 

BTW forgot the fact that he rucked for 5 weeks, to bigger and stronger rucks in 2017. Watch the Geelong game. 

More Facts ...

Watts stands up when others go missing.

Watts kicks straight when others don’t. 

Watts wins games when others can’t. 

 

Please quote where I said we should only look at flaws?

 

Its Goodwin who is unsatisfied with Watts' flaws. It makes zero difference what the rest of us think. It's no more than a discussion point.

 

Vince will be gone this time next year.

Garlett plays to a higher standard than Watts consistently

Tyson commits to a contest, and performs at a level that has him being picked every week when fit.

 

Every player has flaws. Our coach sees Jack Watts' flaws as terminal. That's the difference.

20 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

I Hope you do just that trac, idle threat.

Jees, glad i don't make any stupid statements, in the spirits of the moment......

Rare for someone who wants to stay here.  Loyalty is a 2-way street too.

When I think of a hypothetical MFC flag, I think of Watts and his vindication; nothing else.

 

We are not privy to inside knowledge about training habits and the like, but unless we get a guaranteed win out of it, nah for me.

This is disgusting!!! 

Watts didn't set the world on fire but he was very good in some games before his injury and was one of the only players who can remotely hold his head up after the Collingwood game in round 23, if our players could hit a 20m pass he would've had 3-4 goals.

If Goodwin wants to trade him and he doesn't want to go, fine, we resigned him last year!! Treat an honest club servant with respect. 

If we think we can trade him then talk him up in public! We have hurt his value with what both our captain and coach have come out and said. He is a valuable player which is why some clubs at the pointy end this year want him. 

Im disgusted by our club in this. If you hurt  our reputation in terms of treating players fairly we will get bitten in the long run. 

Wattsy could still be good for us next year. We have burnt his trade value and burnt his loyalty and love for the club in public, this is Goodwins first major mistep and he needs to get it together quickly.

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It is telling that the club has put on the mfc website the AFL article where Goodwin puts the trade Jack story  http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-10-02/-watts-cycle-hasnt-changed-goodwin

Note: the issue is no longer about 'failing expectations' it is about 'being in a rut'.

But it has not put up this AFL article where Jack states his love for the club: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-03/i-love-the-club-watts-not-keen-to-leave

Articles usually go up on club websites within a few hours of the AFL issuing them eg The Lever story is on the mfc website so there is no reason why the Jack story isn't there.

 

I'm not liking how our club is handling this.  If they put up one side of the story they should put up the other.  It seems the club is reluctant to do that.  I think supporters should be provided access to Jack's position whether the club likes it or not.

It may be because Watts' comments came at a private function and not an official press conference, whereas Goodwin's comments were made while representing the club in an official capacity during an AFL branded show. Maybe.

On 10/2/2017 at 12:35 PM, fndee said:

I wrote to the Club re Jack and received this response

"Thank you for taking the time to contact the Melbourne Football Club.

As you can imagine, list management is one of the most critical and important aspects of all AFL Clubs and in such a competitive industry, decisions must be made with the Club's success as the main focus. 

At the end of the season, both Jack and the Club met to have a mature discussion about the future. Both parties agreed that after 9 years at the Club, the timing was right for Jack to explore potential opportunities for 2018. 

This does not mean Jack is leaving the Club. He is a contracted player and if we believe that after looking at all the options, the best thing is for Jack to remain at the footy club, then that will happen. Similarly, if a deal presents itself that satisfies both the Club and Jack, then we will explore that as an option during the trade period. 

The Club's number one priority is to improve our playing list and that will be the driving force behind any decision made in this area. 

As soon as any decision during the upcoming trade period is finalised, we will ensure that this is communicated to our supporters and members.

Thank you again for your support and we look forward to having you on board in 2018!"

Kind regards, 

Stephanie Breheny MFC

I don't particularly mind if Jack goes or stays.

But this whole situation is getting an awfully bad smell about it. And, I'm starting to feel distrustful of anything the club or Goodwin proclaims about this mess......and I don't like that.

Tell me if I'm wrong but originally, from what the club or Goodwin had said (or somewhere), I had the impression that it was Jack's decision to look elsewhere.

Then a couple of weeks later (and confirmed in the clubs letter above) it had changed to being a 'mutual' decision.

And now, what I'm hearing is that it's actually Goodwin's decision.

For a coach that wants his players to be hard at the contest, he's playing this like a '[censored]'. Certainly failing to stand up like the man he wants his players to be and take ownership and responsibility for this decision. Just to the same level that many on this forum are asking of Jack.

So Goody, get a good grip on them, man up, and tell us the truth. Honesty is not something that you can play with and decide to apply when it suits the circumstances. F**k with honesty and you can destroy a culture.

As for Jack, my opinion is that he's been hung out to dry by the club and coaches a number of times. His 'carefree' attitude (some would call it 'balanced' and 'healthy') seems to make it his own doing - either way, not sure if the way Jack has been treated is ever warranted. Roosy early on made comments about how badly the club had handled their 17 y.o. messiah. And in Roosy I trust!! He took us from being a basket case to almost respectable.

After all the attention that Jack has had to endure (tell me anyone that has had to endure anything like he has had to), is it any coincidence that the best football he has played for the mighty Dees was under a coach who managed to reduce the external attention on him - even though Roosy's defensive game style and slow movement of the ball didn't necessarily suit Jack's strengths.

I am pretty impressed that Jack hasn't just turned his back on it all. For those of you who say he lacks strength and courage, I think you look too shallow. To deal mentally with what he has had to over 9 years displays incredible inner strength.

One last thing, does anybody really know what they mean by "Jack came back underdone to preseason" - like I mean the facts - not the speculation. And what would be the measure that they would use to identify that Jack came under-done? 3km time trial maybe? Does anybody know? Do they get reported anywhere? I assume it must have been pretty awful. Or is that simplifying it?

Anyway, good luck to you Jack. Whether you stay or go. I admire your strength of character even though you can frustrate the bejesus out of me from time time (like most MFC players do).

But the 'new' coach and the club is starting to smell a bit like the good old days. And I'm a bit concerned.

8 hours ago, Ouch! said:

Lever coming to our club does squeeze out a tall player. How can it be any other way?? He is a tall defender.

I know we need depth, but when those players are more valuable on the market than at Casey as depth, then Watts is probably being identified by the club as having the most value to another club on the trade table that either isn't untouchable (Hogan, Gawn, TMac) or 'depth'.

Christ I would trade T Mac instead of Watts easy!!

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Christ I would trade T Mac instead of Watts easy!!

I wouldn’t, Tmac is just as accurate in front of goal, and can actually take a contested mark!

As long as he doesn't go on the bloody Footy Show, he can stay........

12 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Christ I would trade T Mac instead of Watts easy!!

Just for a laugh Picket, what would you trade each player for, if you were list manager?

 

take your time, as popcorn takes a while to cook.

14 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Christ I would trade T Mac instead of Watts easy!!

I wouldn’t go that far PF

I hope Wattsy stays on a one year agreement, but i sure as hell wouldn’t trade the T Mac

He will become our number 1 forward

Jesse will be further up the ground

33 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

I don't particularly mind if Jack goes or stays.

But this whole situation is getting an awfully bad smell about it. And, I'm starting to feel distrustful of anything the club or Goodwin proclaims about this mess......and I don't like that.

Tell me if I'm wrong but originally, from what the club or Goodwin had said (or somewhere), I had the impression that it was Jack's decision to look elsewhere.

Then a couple of weeks later (and confirmed in the clubs letter above) it had changed to being a 'mutual' decision.

And now, what I'm hearing is that it's actually Goodwin's decision.

For a coach that wants his players to be hard at the contest, he's playing this like a '[censored]'. Certainly failing to stand up like the man he wants his players to be and take ownership and responsibility for this decision. Just to the same level that many on this forum are asking of Jack.

So Goody, get a good grip on them, man up, and tell us the truth. Honesty is not something that you can play with and decide to apply when it suits the circumstances. F**k with honesty and you can destroy a culture.

As for Jack, my opinion is that he's been hung out to dry by the club and coaches a number of times. His 'carefree' attitude (some would call it 'balanced' and 'healthy') seems to make it his own doing - either way, not sure if the way Jack has been treated is ever warranted. Roosy early on made comments about how badly the club had handled their 17 y.o. messiah. And in Roosy I trust!! He took us from being a basket case to almost respectable.

After all the attention that Jack has had to endure (tell me anyone that has had to endure anything like he has had to), is it any coincidence that the best football he has played for the mighty Dees was under a coach who managed to reduce the external attention on him - even though Roosy's defensive game style and slow movement of the ball didn't necessarily suit Jack's strengths.

I am pretty impressed that Jack hasn't just turned his back on it all. For those of you who say he lacks strength and courage, I think you look too shallow. To deal mentally with what he has had to over 9 years displays incredible inner strength.

One last thing, does anybody really know what they mean by "Jack came back underdone to preseason" - like I mean the facts - not the speculation. And what would be the measure that they would use to identify that Jack came under-done? 3km time trial maybe? Does anybody know? Do they get reported anywhere? I assume it must have been pretty awful. Or is that simplifying it?

Anyway, good luck to you Jack. Whether you stay or go. I admire your strength of character even though you can frustrate the bejesus out of me from time time (like most MFC players do).

But the 'new' coach and the club is starting to smell a bit like the good old days. And I'm a bit concerned.

Terrific first post. Welcome

14 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

I don't particularly mind if Jack goes or stays.

But this whole situation is getting an awfully bad smell about it. And, I'm starting to feel distrustful of anything the club or Goodwin proclaims about this mess......and I don't like that.

Tell me if I'm wrong but originally, from what the club or Goodwin had said (or somewhere), I had the impression that it was Jack's decision to look elsewhere.

Then a couple of weeks later (and confirmed in the clubs letter above) it had changed to being a 'mutual' decision.

And now, what I'm hearing is that it's actually Goodwin's decision.

For a coach that wants his players to be hard at the contest, he's playing this like a '[censored]'. Certainly failing to stand up like the man he wants his players to be and take ownership and responsibility for this decision. Just to the same level that many on this forum are asking of Jack.

So Goody, get a good grip on them, man up, and tell us the truth. Honesty is not something that you can play with and decide to apply when it suits the circumstances. F**k with honesty and you can destroy a culture.

...

This is the part that bothers me too.

From Watts's past behaviour, it's always been crystal clear that he would never be the one to take the initiative to leave. I think he actually said when Roos came that he'd only leave if the club didn't want him.

This was why I've believed strongly that Watts must be gone because the coach (or coaches) gave him an unmistakeable indication that they don't want him. That's the only reason that Watts is actually talking to other clubs at all. And if the coach wants you out, you're pretty much out.

So I've found it uncomfortable that Goodwin was trying to give the impression that he's happy for Watts to stay, or that it's mutual. If he'd given Watts the option of staying, Watts, by past performance, wouldn't be talking with other clubs. Pure and simple.

So why does Goodwin seem to want to avoid taking responsibility for that? To me, all Watts is doing is trying to make sure everybody's clear that it's not his choice to leave. As he has a perfect right to do.

Goodwin seems to not only want Watts to leave, he wants Watts to take the responsibility for leaving.

That's what bothers me most. Especially when this all seems to be about being strong enough to stand up and be counted.

Great first post by the way, Chewy. Welcome to the loony bin.

 

 If you look up "much maligned" in the dictionary you see a picture of this guy. My two cents worth is I hope he stays, but will also be happy to see him leave and kick 30 odd as a 3rd tall/high half forward for any once else (probably except for the filth and the drug cheats), because I think that will be best for Jack, most of us hope/dream he can turn around another wasted season (by most measures) where is talent remains unfulfilled and next year he will take a game by the scruff of the neck and dominate like we've always hoped he would. But there are others that think that he's had plenty of chances, and burnt plenty of bridges.

The reason why Jack is so polarising is because he epitomises MFC since he was drafted, not quite there, living off hope and potential, dreaming the best is yet to come. This period has also caused other fans to be bitter about mistakes made, draft picks missed and gameplans exposed. Jack has been the whipping boy for them as much as he has been the beacon of hope for others.

I don't know what the right thing to do is, but I hope whatever happens, there isn't another thread like this next year, equally glass half empty, as it is glass half full.