9 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Which left field selections have failed?

Other than Hannan name me one player from regular VFL team who has retained his place?

1 hour ago, Copuchas said:

I was born 5 months after our last premiership, I think I understand the dynamics.  I have seen many false dawns.  I happen to concur with Goodwin and McCartney on the brand of football that wins finals - replay the 2000 GF if in any doubt.   The ultimate driver of memberships, sponsors, prime TV slots etc etc is sustained success.    That will only come from a club culture and brand of football that holds up.  Read the Neitz comments on where the club is headed if still uncertain.  

I am with you all the way, although I was born 6 months after the last premiership - 1 month more of MFC pain. I want sustained success, and although I love the  Dees players, it is the club/team which has my support. If/when this current list hits consistent finals-winning football, it will be on the back of team not individuals. 

I reckon we'll be roses this week with no wind to confound the coaches box.

"What the [censored] is this fast air blowing in from one side?? How do we defend against it?? Someone get a meteorologist in here!!"

3 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

150 games in and we are still having this conversation.

I felt that last year was a good start for Jack. But really? A 150 game player being dropped to the two's for non performance? This is getting tiresome.

Something must have happened in the last 24 hours to get Goody's nose out of joint. If not, why was he not included in the initial set of omissions?

Maybe it relieved a little bit of the circus surrounding Jack. 

The Circle, I remember R1 2007 heading down to the MCG Friday night season opening game Melbourne V St Kilda a re-match of the final from 2006 which Melbourne won with a mix of old and new plus a kid in there ranks that could be anything, he ended up playing his career out at Fremantle sort off Peel Thunder really, one finished at Carlton the other is captain of our club today.

St Kilda went whack in front of 50,000 people and that sent our club spiralling downwards to places we all want to forget. 

We have our chance to inflict this back on St Kilda, with aging veterans on the way out and a few young potential stars.   We have seen snippets of light over this season and if we leave on Sunday afternoon with a win the opportunity to end what St Kilda started us on in 2007 and play finals again is a real possibility.  The flip side they could once again pull the shutters down on our season and have us all looking at another meaningless September.

Food for thought

We have scored 15 goals or more eight times in the first 14 rounds but not once in the last 6 games.

The league-wide average for scores per inside 50 sits at 47%. Against GWS we had 55 entries (more than the Giants) but scored from just 12. Of the 171 games played this year no team has been as inefficient once inside forward 50 as Melbourne was on Saturday in Canberra.

 

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Food for thought

We have scored 15 goals or more eight times in the first 14 rounds but not once in the last 6 games.

The league-wide average for scores per inside 50 sits at 47%. Against GWS we had 55 entries (more than the Giants) but scored from just 12. Of the 171 games played this year no team has been as inefficient once inside forward 50 as Melbourne was on Saturday in Canberra.

 

Our accurate kicking last week against GWS hid to some extent what was a woeful scoring performance.

As you say it has been the norm for several weeks. Perhaps our structures need to change

2 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Our accurate kicking last week against GWS hid to some extent what was a woeful scoring performance.

As you say it has been the norm for several weeks. Perhaps our structures need to change

I think a legitmae question is the game plan and/or the player's ability to play it.

No doubt an element is other clubs working us out tactically. One obvious way the Giants did was limiting the run and impact of Frost, Hunt and hibberd. We had relied on that run for much our forward attacks and bringing the ball in fast. Injuries have played their part. But interestingly in the last few weeks we have had Hogan, Watts and Gawn back (though Hogan was obviously out last week) 

Disfunctional forward line and no watts and hogan this could be interesting. 

18 minutes ago, CityDee said:

Disfunctional forward line and no watts and hogan this could be interesting. 

I feel like we've played our best footy when we have to lower our eyes - with a smaller forward line we will have no option but to do this.  I'm confident we can kick a winning score with the players we have.

On Watts - he is no different to Frost or Salem.  If you don't bring the intensity required, then you miss out.  Simple.  I know Salem and Watts are two of our best users of the footy, but they can't do much for us if they aren't getting their hands on it enough.  I like the message Goodwin is sending.

2 hours ago, Demon77 said:

Have I missed something?

He wasn't at training this morning. I was just hoping that he would still play, which Goody confirmed in his media conference today.

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I feel like we've played our best footy when we have to lower our eyes - with a smaller forward line we will have no option but to do this.  I'm confident we can kick a winning score with the players we have.

On Watts - he is no different to Frost or Salem.  If you don't bring the intensity required, then you miss out.  Simple.  I know Salem and Watts are two of our best users of the footy, but they can't do much for us if they aren't getting their hands on it enough.  I like the message Goodwin is sending.

I agree with you there Wiseblood, when our midfield is doing their job, they look to hit a free target and we spread really well in waves to move the ball fluidly into the forward line. Also agree that if any player doesn't bring the intensity required than they won't play, regardless if they are our most damaging ball users or not. Really hope they rip it a part in Casey this weekend.

I think one of the issues our forward line has had the last few weeks is that the delivery has been awful, like Jones blasting bypassing good short options and kicking to a 3 on 1 (against) in the square against GWS. The second issue is that our forward line hasn't put enough pressure to keep the ball in the forward half once it is won. I think that is why Goodwin is going with a shorter forward mix this week to emulate a teams like Adelaide and Richmond, whose mosquito fleet make it very hard on opposition defenses - leading to scores.

27 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I feel like we've played our best footy when we have to lower our eyes - with a smaller forward line we will have no option but to do this.  I'm confident we can kick a winning score with the players we have.

On Watts - he is no different to Frost or Salem.  If you don't bring the intensity required, then you miss out.  Simple.  I know Salem and Watts are two of our best users of the footy, but they can't do much for us if they aren't getting their hands on it enough.  I like the message Goodwin is sending.

Actually the blokes dropped, had more footy and played better than Jeffy and Hunt for example.

He also kept blokes in who got a lot of the footy but fumbled or turned it over, like Hibberd,  Tyson and the skipper ( who was not going to be dropped on his first game back anyway).

He also kept Pedersen in, who has gone backwards lately.

It is a brave and smart, or foolish selection this week by the match committee.

Edited August 11, 20178 yr by Redleg

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Actually the blokes dropped had more footy than Jeffy and Hunt for example.

He also kept blokes in who got a lot of the footy but fumbled or turned it over like Hibberd,  Tyson and the skipper ( who was not going to be dropped on his first game back anyway).

He also kept Pedersen in, who has gone backwards lately.

Which all goes to prove that we demonlanders have only the faintest idea of what is going on.

16 minutes ago, BigMacjnr said:

I agree with you there Wiseblood, when our midfield is doing their job, they look to hit a free target and we spread really well in waves to move the ball fluidly into the forward line. Also agree that if any player doesn't bring the intensity required than they won't play, regardless if they are our most damaging ball users or not. Really hope they rip it a part in Casey this weekend.

I think one of the issues our forward line has had the last few weeks is that the delivery has been awful, like Jones blasting bypassing good short options and kicking to a 3 on 1 (against) in the square against GWS. The second issue is that our forward line hasn't put enough pressure to keep the ball in the forward half once it is won. I think that is why Goodwin is going with a shorter forward mix this week to emulate a teams like Adelaide and Richmond, whose mosquito fleet make it very hard on opposition defenses - leading to scores.

He may have also paid attention to GWS running riot with both Patton and Cameron out of the side. 

The forward mix will be very interesting. To Weid or not to Weid.

T Mac is a dead eye dick but ultimately he's still learning the craft. Overly relying on one guy whose inexperienced (as a forward) seems dicey but if it forces our players into looking at shorter options instead of routinely bombing it on his head then I'm all for a shake up.

 

Goodwin says: 

"Our pressure's been high, our contested ball has been high, and we've been a really ferocious team around the contest," he said.

"With that has come some undisciplined acts, we understand that."

and he adds that our ferocity has dropped off...yes, since Bugg was suspended!

He might have gone over the top but he should have been backed for at least trying to be competitive.  Were the team warned after he was suspended?  Has that caused the drop off in intensity?

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Food for thought

We have scored 15 goals or more eight times in the first 14 rounds but not once in the last 6 games.

The league-wide average for scores per inside 50 sits at 47%. Against GWS we had 55 entries (more than the Giants) but scored from just 12. Of the 171 games played this year no team has been as inefficient once inside forward 50 as Melbourne was on Saturday in Canberra.

 

Sort of confirms my impression that we started going downhill after the Bulldogs game. By the time we played the Swans the players heads(and fans) were so high in the clouds that they started to suffer oxygen deprivation. The way the Swans out muscled and pressured us must have been a shock and other clubs have taken note.

Edited August 11, 20178 yr by america de cali

15 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Actually the blokes dropped, had more footy and played better than Jeffy and Hunt for example.

Only if you look at the last game. Over the last 3 or so games, that's not the case, Watts has been poor, Salem has been so-so.

If Hunt and Garland have a run of games where they fail to have much impact, then they would presumably meet the same fate. Goodwin and co. have shown already that they'll back players and support them in the short term, but that that support has its limits.

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

The Circle, I remember R1 2007 heading down to the MCG Friday night season opening game Melbourne V St Kilda a re-match of the final from 2006 which Melbourne won with a mix of old and new plus a kid in there ranks that could be anything, he ended up playing his career out at Fremantle sort off Peel Thunder really, one finished at Carlton the other is captain of our club today.

St Kilda went whack in front of 50,000 people and that sent our club spiralling downwards to places we all want to forget. 

We have our chance to inflict this back on St Kilda, with aging veterans on the way out and a few young potential stars.   We have seen snippets of light over this season and if we leave on Sunday afternoon with a win the opportunity to end what St Kilda started us on in 2007 and play finals again is a real possibility.  The flip side they could once again pull the shutters down on our season and have us all looking at another meaningless September.

I would prefer Essendon to make the finals over St Kilda.

We've started a bit of a rivalry with St Kilda (mainly media driven) and it would be nice to win that battle in terms of making the finals before them.

Edited August 11, 20178 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

When does the squad get finalised?

Just announced

Surprised to see Maynard out given the wrap he got from Goodwin and Matthews this week.

I/C: Angus Brayshaw, Sam Weideman, Josh Wagner, James Harmes

Emg: Jack Watts, Billy Stretch, Corey Maynard

In: Brayshaw, Hannan, Weideman, Wagner

Out: Salem, Frost, Watts, Maynard

Edited August 11, 20178 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Watts, Frost, Salem & Maynard out

Brayshaw, Wagner, Weideman &  Hannan in

1 minute ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Surprised to see Maynard out given the wrap he got from Goodwin and Matthews this week.

One too many inside mid?

Wagner, although ordinary can provide a bit of dash on the outside as well as providing an option in defence. But I reiterate, he's very ordinary.

Not sure what to think anymore, four changes made for the 3rd time in 4 weeks.