23 minutes ago, JV7 said:

Couple of mates ran into Wagner out last night.. Said he's going to be dropped so there's one out. Goodwin obviously thinks he was that bad if he knows he's out already, assume White will join him

Game debriefs usually happen on a Monday and it isn't Goodwin's style to give that sort of demoralising feedback straight after a tough game. 

From what we now know of the 3 not-so-special K's recalcitrant behaviour Wagner would have known he got a game because Kent, Kennedy and Kennedy-Harris were suspended.  Afterall we needed midfielders and forwards on Friday night.  So it is not a surprise to see Wagner out and Hunt replace him down back next week.

So, more likely Goodwin told Wagner before the game that this was a one week selection and he didn't expect him to be a world beater, just go out do his best - which he did.  Not sure that is the same thing as 'being dropped' for being really bad. 

Edited July 1, 20178 yr by Lucifer's Hero

20 minutes ago, Demon77 said:

Another fascinating selection looms this week. Cripps , Murphy and Gibbs the only dangers for next weeks game in my opinion. Vince surely has to run with one of them now you would think.

Taking the kids to the school holiday clinic on Tuesday at MSAC, not that we could gauge anything from there but at least I can see who's limping or not. 

I hate this attitude. Yes they are their 3 best players. But consider:

-kreuzer beats gawn at the best of times. If max stinks it up like he did on Friday, this will go a long way to winning them the game. 

-the trio of weitering plowman marchbank is a good young hungry backline. Whoever plays forward out of tom mac watts hogan if fit is going to be double and triple teamed by these 3 given our lack of firepower

-kade simpson is a jet

-sam docherty will be the dual AA hbf at the end of the year. If he was ours we'd be putting him in brownlow contention.

-charlie curnow is going places

-matthew wright is always good for 2 or 3, even with jetta on him

-casboult can now kick in addition to being the best mark in the league.

I could go on. Carlton are 2 years away from being a serious serious threat if they can keep gibbs. They are doing great things under Bolton.

2 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

I hate this attitude. Yes they are their 3 best players. But consider:

-kreuzer beats gawn at the best of times. If max stinks it up like he did on Friday, this will go a long way to winning them the game. 

-the trio of weitering plowman marchbank is a good young hungry backline. Whoever plays forward out of tom mac watts hogan if fit is going to be double and triple teamed by these 3 given our lack of firepower

-kade simpson is a jet

-sam docherty will be the dual AA hbf at the end of the year. If he was ours we'd be putting him in brownlow contention.

-charlie curnow is going places

-matthew wright is always good for 2 or 3, even with jetta on him

-casboult can now kick in addition to being the best mark in the league.

I could go on. Carlton are 2 years away from being a serious serious threat if they can keep gibbs. They are doing great things under Bolton.

Settle down

J.Smith in,Maynard and Kent a possibility.Wagner out,possibility White. Forget about Casey Match. If Viney is out Petracca should take his place.Hogan also a possible to come in.

35 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

I hate this attitude. Yes they are their 3 best players. But consider:

-kreuzer beats gawn at the best of times. If max stinks it up like he did on Friday, this will go a long way to winning them the game. 

-the trio of weitering plowman marchbank is a good young hungry backline. Whoever plays forward out of tom mac watts hogan if fit is going to be double and triple teamed by these 3 given our lack of firepower

-kade simpson is a jet

-sam docherty will be the dual AA hbf at the end of the year. If he was ours we'd be putting him in brownlow contention.

-charlie curnow is going places

-matthew wright is always good for 2 or 3, even with jetta on him

-casboult can now kick in addition to being the best mark in the league.

I could go on. Carlton are 2 years away from being a serious serious threat if they can keep gibbs. They are doing great things under Bolton.

C'mon SOS. This is the demonland board.. Head back to the Carlton board please

Edited July 1, 20178 yr by JV7

39 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

I hate this attitude. Yes they are their 3 best players. But consider:

-kreuzer beats gawn at the best of times. If max stinks it up like he did on Friday, this will go a long way to winning them the game. 

-the trio of weitering plowman marchbank is a good young hungry backline. Whoever plays forward out of tom mac watts hogan if fit is going to be double and triple teamed by these 3 given our lack of firepower

-kade simpson is a jet

-sam docherty will be the dual AA hbf at the end of the year. If he was ours we'd be putting him in brownlow contention.

-charlie curnow is going places

-matthew wright is always good for 2 or 3, even with jetta on him

-casboult can now kick in addition to being the best mark in the league.

I could go on. Carlton are 2 years away from being a serious serious threat if they can keep gibbs. They are doing great things under Bolton.

Mate, all I'm saying is those 3 usually tear us up even when we have a full compliment in the middle. I don't care how good they will be in two years, I'm worried about Sunday. Stop the influence of those 3 and we go a long way to winning the game and the only thing I need to consider is that my footy club needs troops to fill the void but thanks for the rundown on the Carlton list.

I'm actually at Princess Park right now, watching my son play soccer, is that you hanging around the front door of Ikon Park in the long sleeve?

 

22 minutes ago, JV7 said:

C'mon SOS. This is the demonland board.. Head back to the Carlton board please

Lol

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

I hate this attitude. Yes they are their 3 best players. But consider:

-kreuzer beats gawn at the best of times. If max stinks it up like he did on Friday, this will go a long way to winning them the game. 

-the trio of weitering plowman marchbank is a good young hungry backline. Whoever plays forward out of tom mac watts hogan if fit is going to be double and triple teamed by these 3 given our lack of firepower

-kade simpson is a jet

-sam docherty will be the dual AA hbf at the end of the year. If he was ours we'd be putting him in brownlow contention.

-charlie curnow is going places

-matthew wright is always good for 2 or 3, even with jetta on him

-casboult can now kick in addition to being the best mark in the league.

I could go on. Carlton are 2 years away from being a serious serious threat if they can keep gibbs. They are doing great things under Bolton.

Jesus. How have this mob even lost a game this year? I think I'll plonk down some coin on them for the flag. 

Bizarre. The overrating of our list on this board is absurd... I post about the opposition's 10 best players and you think I am overrating them? 

Like us, their issue is their bottom 6 and their depth. Ours has managed to play reasonably well this year, fitting in to a good attacking gamestyle. Their bottom 6 is average (see N Graham) and they play a heavily defensive gamestyle which won't win them many games but is keeping them in the hunt. 

All I am saying is it would be foolish to underestimate them. You can bet Goodwin and the club view it the same way I do. 

Consider that your reaction to my listing of their top 10 is how every non dees supporter reacted to David King's article about us.

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Game debriefs usually happen on a Monday and it isn't Goodwin's style to give that sort of demoralising feedback straight after a tough game. 

From what we now know of the 3 not-so-special K's recalcitrant behaviour Wagner would have known he got a game because Kent, Kennedy and Kennedy-Harris were suspended.  Afterall we needed midfielders and forwards on Friday night.  So it is not a surprise to see Wagner out and Hunt replace him down back next week.

So, more likely Goodwin told Wagner before the game that this was a one week selection and he didn't expect him to be a world beater, just go out do his best - which he did.  Not sure that is the same thing as 'being dropped' for being really bad. 

Doubt that it's anything more than his own expectation 

Carlton's best players are playing well

They should never have been as bad as they have been - the quality of talent on their list is strong, but for whatever reason they have been unable to harness it

Under Bolton they are super organized defensively and are starting to learn how to score; they're not that different to us a couple of years ago except their senior players - Simpson, Murphy, Kruezer, Gibbs et al - are better than ours were whilst their young talent is probably at a slightly lesser level, albeit Weitering is an absolute jet

25 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Bizarre. The overrating of our list on this board is absurd... I post about the opposition's 10 best players and you think I am overrating them? 

Like us, their issue is their bottom 6 and their depth. Ours has managed to play reasonably well this year, fitting in to a good attacking gamestyle. Their bottom 6 is average (see N Graham) and they play a heavily defensive gamestyle which won't win them many games but is keeping them in the hunt. 

All I am saying is it would be foolish to underestimate them. You can bet Goodwin and the club view it the same way I do. 

Consider that your reaction to my listing of their top 10 is how every non dees supporter reacted to David King's article about us.

Who is underestimating them ?

29 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Bizarre. The overrating of our list on this board is absurd... I post about the opposition's 10 best players and you think I am overrating them? 

Like us, their issue is their bottom 6 and their depth. Ours has managed to play reasonably well this year, fitting in to a good attacking gamestyle. Their bottom 6 is average (see N Graham) and they play a heavily defensive gamestyle which won't win them many games but is keeping them in the hunt. 

All I am saying is it would be foolish to underestimate them. You can bet Goodwin and the club view it the same way I do. 

Consider that your reaction to my listing of their top 10 is how every non dees supporter reacted to David King's article about us.

You're right to say we shouldn't be underestimating them, but you ended your post with "I could go on" - I don't think you could, tbh. You listed their best players and each week it's the same.

Carlton is well-drilled and plays generally quite consistently, but still continues to be driven by the same core players of Murpy, Gibbs, Cripps, Kreuzer, Simpson and Docherty. If those players play well, Carlton can beat us with ease.

28 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Bizarre. The overrating of our list on this board is absurd... I post about the opposition's 10 best players and you think I am overrating them? 

Like us, their issue is their bottom 6 and their depth. Ours has managed to play reasonably well this year, fitting in to a good attacking gamestyle. Their bottom 6 is average (see N Graham) and they play a heavily defensive gamestyle which won't win them many games but is keeping them in the hunt. 

All I am saying is it would be foolish to underestimate them. You can bet Goodwin and the club view it the same way I do. 

Consider that your reaction to my listing of their top 10 is how every non dees supporter reacted to David King's article about us.

Point is lose one or two of Gibbs,Murphy,Simpson,Crisps and maybe Kreuzer and they're cooked.Most of these are mature,elite seasoned bodies that we don't have atm.Yes Docherty etc are good but not much without the aforementioned. Huge gap between their worst and best. Given our plethora of injuries (now the worst in the AFL) and the availability of ALL their guns this game is problematic.I actually believe a win against the Blues would be a monumental result but given current circumstances sadly ,unlikely. March bank May miss but small consolation.That said, our future is so much brighter. No comparison.

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

-matthew wright is always good for 2 or 3, even with jetta on him

 

Whilst I agree on most of your assessment that Carlton are building many dangerous things, I don't believe this one. Jetta is a gun at his job and no one (that is a reasonable match up for him) is good for 2 or 3 goals against him. No one. 

On 7/1/2017 at 10:09 AM, big_red_fire_engine said:

I will do this on the assumption that Viney and Bugg are the only forced outs and those at Casey duplicate their form of last week. 

In: Hogan, Garlett, JKH, Kennedy

Out: Bugg, White, Viney, Stretch

 

I am updating this assuming Tyson also wont get up and after Casey's game.

In: Hogan, Garlett, Kennedy, Maynard, Smith

Out: Bugg, White, Wagner, Viney, Tyson

 

Are we certain that both Viney and Tyson won't get up for next week? If Viney hasn't snapped the tendon, does he play through the pain?

Tyson may have only got a bad impact knock to his knee, and is on crutches to keep the recovery process as smooth as possible.

Id be very shocked if Hogan doesn't play, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Jeffy be right for the game.

Watts is 50/50 too.

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Bizarre. The overrating of our list on this board is absurd... I post about the opposition's 10 best players and you think I am overrating them? 

Like us, their issue is their bottom 6 and their depth. Ours has managed to play reasonably well this year, fitting in to a good attacking gamestyle. Their bottom 6 is average (see N Graham) and they play a heavily defensive gamestyle which won't win them many games but is keeping them in the hunt. 

All I am saying is it would be foolish to underestimate them. You can bet Goodwin and the club view it the same way I do. 

Consider that your reaction to my listing of their top 10 is how every non dees supporter reacted to David King's article about us.

No, i'll betyuh that's not right, positive.......

32 minutes ago, GawnWithTheWind said:

Are we certain that both Viney and Tyson won't get up for next week? If Viney hasn't snapped the tendon, does he play through the pain?

Tyson may have only got a bad impact knock to his knee, and is on crutches to keep the recovery process as smooth as possible.

Id be very shocked if Hogan doesn't play, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Jeffy be right for the game.

Watts is 50/50 too.

Viney out for a month they are saying this morning on the footy shows. Tyson not being mentioned so would be a chance. 

Did Smith do his case any good at VFL yesterday?

And the same for the KKK guys.

Still no word on Tyson? 

22 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Did Smith do his case any good at VFL yesterday?

And the same for the KKK guys.

All named in the bests but granted on a day they were  flogged.

Casey Demons Maynard Smith Kennedy-Harris Kent Kennedy Trengove

Jay Kennedy-Harris 1 goal 15 kicks 10 handballs 25 disposals 2 marks 8 tackles 107 dream team points

Ben Kennedy 1 behind 11 kicks 19 handballs 30 disposals 12 tackles 119 dream team points

Dean Kent 1 goals 1 behind 18 kicks 9 handballs 27 disposals 4 marks 4 tackles 104 dream team points

Joel Smith 9 kicks 12 handballs 21 disposals 8 marks 3 tackles 83 dream team points

 

Edited July 2, 20178 yr by big_red_fire_engine

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

You're right to say we shouldn't be underestimating them, but you ended your post with "I could go on" - I don't think you could, tbh. You listed their best players and each week it's the same.

Carlton is well-drilled and plays generally quite consistently, but still continues to be driven by the same core players of Murpy, Gibbs, Cripps, Kreuzer, Simpson and Docherty. If those players play well, Carlton can beat us with ease.

Fair enough

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I am updating this assuming Tyson also wont get up and after Casey's game.

In: Hogan, Garlett, Kennedy, Maynard, Smith

Out: Bugg, White, Wagner, Viney, Tyson

 

I like these changes, that's as good as we can hope for really.

If indeed they go with Maynard and Kennedy the total players used will go to 36.

Makes it even more remarkable what the boys have been able to achieve so far when history shows successful teams use  less than 30 players in a season.

FWD

Syd: T McDonald, Petracca, Pedersen, Hunt, Melksham (MID), Hannan,

Carl: Hogan, T McDonald, Pedersen, Garlett, Melksham (MID), Hannan,

MID

Syd: Viney, Oliver, Tyson, Lewis, Gawn, Neal-Bullen, Stretch, Harmes, Bugg (FWD)

Carl: Oliver, Tyson, Lewis, Gawn, Petracca, Neal-Bullen, Harmes, Kennedy-Harris, Kent (FWD)

DEF

Syd: O McDonald, Frost, Hibberd, Jetta, Vince, White, Wagner, 

Carl: O McDonald, Frost, Hibberd, Jetta, Vince, Hunt, Stretch

 

If Garlett and Hogan get up, we will have a more than enough to win against Carlton given the right mindset.