Changes v Carlton

[Demons11 7,014]

21 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

why is it dumb... EPL teams do it all the time

It is part of list management. If it makes sense from a physiological viewpoint let's do it

EPL play 38 games in a season plus add in the other comps it's probably close to 60 games. 

Part of list management would not be to throw games when you have to win 

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Must bring in a tall target this week. Not a makeshift. Cannot rely on swinging players into the FF role at different stages. When we won a rare clearance last week, our first instincts were to bomb long, often to 3 on 1. Easy to pick off. Easy to set up against. Predicatable. Our strength was our ability to move the contested ball in a rolling maul like set up. Series of handball in close. That has been taken away. We are too many down in the mids. Need to adjust

[PaulRB 6,363]

1 hour ago, Vogon Poetry said:

It's impossible for us to pick the ins and outs this week because of so many injured players - Garlett, Hogan, Watts and Tyson all unknown.

But my philosophy would be to risk nobody in this game but play best available.  The following week against Adelaide I'd rest Oliver, Hunt, ANB, Harmes, Gawn Hibberd and anyone else who is sore.  With our outs Adelaide in Darwin is almost unwinnable and taking tired players up there significantly reduces our chances of winning the following week and risks injury to tired bodies.

We need to focus on the back end of the season starting with the PA game with an improving list and players who aren't spent.

The commercial risk is of course the NT Government is a significant sponsor.  This approach would not please them.

So, having recruited competitive kids, trained and built belief that they can beat anyone, having beaten the Crows already this year (at their home ground), and having to win at least 5 more in order to play our first finals series in a decade... you suggest we start throwing games.

That's just silly. 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

43 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

This is the dumbest thing I have heard.  Rest 6 players because you think they can't win.  The club would go into every game thinking they can win and you don't throw games 

Our objective is to win enough games to make finals and to have as many fit and able bodies available for selection.

I think we need to win 12 games, that's 4 more.  We need therefore to give ourselves the best chance to win 4.

We have a lot of exhausted and sore bodies on the list at the moment.  It's not coincidental that we have had a spate of injuries at a time we've played 4 games in 18 days.  On Friday we saw a lot of tired and fatigued players on the field.

There are 8 games to go and we have a 9 day break coming up followed by yet another 6 day break and a long trip to Darwin.  Adelaide will have an 8 day break.  Darwin has proven to be very taxing on bodies, it's hot and humid and we are playing a top team with depleted personnel.  Victory is most unlikely and the impact on our players with that schedule makes winning the PA game much harder.

Our most probably wins will come against Carlton, PA, NM, Saints, Brisbane and Collingwood.  We should manage our players to maximise our chances of winning 4 and hopefully more of those game.

That's the philosophy.  We are not in a position to know which players need a rest and my list was more by example and observation than anything else  but we need to identify which players are carrying injury and use the games against Adelaide and GWS to freshen up sore players and give ourselves the best chance of winning the remaining games and making finals.

Sorry if that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard.

[PaulRB 6,363]

4 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Our objective is to win enough games to make finals and to have as many fit and able bodies available for selection.

I think we need to win 12 games, that's 4 more.  We need therefore to give ourselves the best chance to win 4.

We have a lot of exhausted and sore bodies on the list at the moment.  It's not coincidental that we have had a spate of injuries at a time we've played 4 games in 18 days.  On Friday we saw a lot of tired and fatigued players on the field.

There are 8 games to go and we have a 9 day break coming up followed by yet another 6 day break and a long trip to Darwin.  Adelaide will have an 8 day break.  Darwin has proven to be very taxing on bodies, it's hot and humid and we are playing a top team with depleted personnel.  Victory is most unlikely and the impact on our players with that schedule makes winning the PA game much harder.

Our most probably wins will come against Carlton, PA, NM, Saints, Brisbane and Collingwood.  We should manage our players to maximise our chances of winning 4 and hopefully more of those game.

That's the philosophy.  We are not in a position to know which players need a rest and my list was more by example and observation than anything else  but we need to identify which players are carrying injury and use the games against Adelaide and GWS to freshen up sore players and give ourselves the best chance of winning the remaining games and making finals.

Sorry if that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard.

If we start believing in the excuses and adopting the strategies you're suggesting we may as well run up the white flag on this season now, cause we won't be there in September and certainly not in the last game. 

The AFL season is a marathon, more so now with an even competition. If we're ever going to taste real success it's because we've built resilience and strength by facing our challenges, rather than shirking from them as you suggest. 

If we push hard and accept no plausible excuses, then we may fall in a heap, but next year we'll be closer to a flag for the lessons we learnt from it. 

[whatwhat say what 22,756]

it's sounding relatively positive on both hogan and garlett to me

i'm still convinced tyson will be an out unfortunately

IN: hogan, garlett, kennedy-harris, kent
OUT: viney, tyson, bugg, wagner

B: Jetta - Frost - Hibberd
HB: Hunt - O. McDonald - Lewis
C: Stretch - Petracca - Neal-Bullen
HF: Hannan - T. McDonald - Melksham
F: Pedersen - Hogan - Garlett
Foll: Gawn - Oliver - Vince
I/C: Kent - Kennedy-Harris - White - Harmes

wagner and white i think you could throw a coin in the air as to who to leave out; i'd prefer white to come out as wagner at least got the ball (and promptly dropped the dolly mark) whilst white's kicking off one step repeatedly was driving me to distraction, but judging from another thread it sounds like wagner is being yo-yo'd this week?

our midfield is bereft of talent and depth without viney, jones and tyson in there, it's going to be a massive task to get up on sunday

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

2 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

If we start believing in the excuses and adopting the strategies you're suggesting we may as well run up the white flag on this season now, cause we won't be there in September and certainly not in the last game. 

The AFL season is a marathon, more so now with an even competition. If we're ever going to taste real success it's because we've built resilience and strength by facing our challenges, rather than shirking from them as you suggest. 

If we push hard and accept no plausible excuses, then we may fall in a heap, but next year we'll be closer to a flag for the lessons we learnt from it. 

Your recognition that we may fall in a heap suggests that you find this acceptable as long as we just push through it.  I happen to believe that we are a serious chance to do some damage in September if we can make finals with a fit list and that that experience will benefit us significantly more than being dumb and running the list into the ground and falling short.

What I'm suggesting is not running up the white flag but just trying to be smart and give us the best chance of success this year and in the future.

 

[PaulRB 6,363]

While our midfield has been decimated, we can draw some hope that we have a good number who can step in to play cameos or even more... I.e Hannam, Melksham, Garlett, Hogan, etc... 

with Jeffy and Hogan back... things may not be so bleak.

[PaulRB 6,363]

9 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Your recognition that we may fall in a heap suggests that you find this acceptable as long as we just push through it.  I happen to believe that we are a serious chance to do some damage in September if we can make finals with a fit list and that that experience will benefit us significantly more than being dumb and running the list into the ground and falling short.

What I'm suggesting is not running up the white flag but just trying to be smart and give us the best chance of success this year and in the future.

 

Your strategy is high risk low reward. This year we've beaten teams you'd have us "roll over to" in West Coast and Adelaide, while losing to teams that you erroneously assume we'd now beat in North and Saints, both of whom beat us earlier in the year. 

So aside from corrupting the winning culture of the club, holding us out to be mocked by the AFL community (remember our last tanking experience, yay!), your philosophy most likely would fail if the "evidence" of this year was to continue. 

So, still silly, in fact more so the more thought I give it.

Edited July 4, 2017 by PaulRB

[Demons11 7,014]

32 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Our objective is to win enough games to make finals and to have as many fit and able bodies available for selection.

I think we need to win 12 games, that's 4 more.  We need therefore to give ourselves the best chance to win 4.

We have a lot of exhausted and sore bodies on the list at the moment.  It's not coincidental that we have had a spate of injuries at a time we've played 4 games in 18 days.  On Friday we saw a lot of tired and fatigued players on the field.

There are 8 games to go and we have a 9 day break coming up followed by yet another 6 day break and a long trip to Darwin.  Adelaide will have an 8 day break.  Darwin has proven to be very taxing on bodies, it's hot and humid and we are playing a top team with depleted personnel.  Victory is most unlikely and the impact on our players with that schedule makes winning the PA game much harder.

Our most probably wins will come against Carlton, PA, NM, Saints, Brisbane and Collingwood.  We should manage our players to maximise our chances of winning 4 and hopefully more of those game.

That's the philosophy.  We are not in a position to know which players need a rest and my list was more by example and observation than anything else  but we need to identify which players are carrying injury and use the games against Adelaide and GWS to freshen up sore players and give ourselves the best chance of winning the remaining games and making finals.

Sorry if that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard.

We should be aiming for top 4, not just the top 8.  You play every game to win, not to win enough games to scrape into the 8.  

The players have a bye during the season to rest, they are there to play football not watch from the sidelines. 

[DemonLad5 1,642]

My best guess is that Watts is out. In that case 

In: Hogan, Garlett, Kent, Kennedy

Out: Viney, Bugg, White, Stretch 

If Watts gets up, Pedo gets dropped. T.Mac has been our most dangerous forward for a few weeks now 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

5 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

My best guess is that Watts is out. In that case 

In: Hogan, Garlett, Kent, Kennedy

Out: Viney, Bugg, White, Stretch 

If Watts gets up, Pedo gets dropped. T.Mac has been our most dangerous forward for a few weeks now 

Surely not Stretch, we need more run than ever before.

[deelete my account 1,194]

36 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Your recognition that we may fall in a heap suggests that you find this acceptable as long as we just push through it.  I happen to believe that we are a serious chance to do some damage in September if we can make finals with a fit list and that that experience will benefit us significantly more than being dumb and running the list into the ground and falling short.

What I'm suggesting is not running up the white flag but just trying to be smart and give us the best chance of success this year and in the future.

 

The NT game is really beginning to appear like it costs us more thsn 500k if it prevents us from making the 8 and takes a fitness toll on the list. Heck if it cost us top 4 then thats 1 prime time home final guarantee lost (How much $$?)

Edited July 4, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[DemonLad5 1,642]

18 minutes ago, Demon77 said:

Surely not Stretch, we need more run than ever before.

Just the 9 touches on Friday and I just feel like Harmes has offered more this year. Wagners 20 disposals keeps him in.

[loges 6,767]

So Watts taken off as a precaution against Dogs, scans showed no tear, just "tightness". is about to miss his third game Sheesh !

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

7 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Just the 9 touches on Friday and I just feel like Harmes has offered more this year. Wagners 20 disposals keeps him in.

I see where you're coming from, I don't think we have the luxury to drop players on the back of one bad game considering our circumstances. 

[DubDee 25,865]

Could this be Neal-Bullen's breakout game?  Put him in his preferred position - inside mid

I'd back him

[DemonLad5 1,642]

9 minutes ago, Demon77 said:

I see where you're coming from, I don't think we have the luxury to drop players on the back of one bad game considering our circumstances. 

So you'd be happy to keep White in? I'd like to see what BK can offer personally 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

32 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

So you'd be happy to keep White in? I'd like to see what BK can offer personally 

Not at all, we all know why he came into the team.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,828]

49 minutes ago, loges said:

So Watts taken off as a precaution against Dogs, scans showed no tear, just "tightness". is about to miss his third game Sheesh !

I just wish the club would come out and be transparent with Watt's injury. If he's going to miss 3 more weeks, then tell us he's going to miss 3 more weeks. Rule him out early if he's no chance to play this week.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

Just now, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I just wish the club would come out and be transparent with Watt's injury. If he's going to miss 3 more weeks, then tell us he's going to miss 3 more weeks. Rule him out early if he's no chance to play this week.

I'm currently at the holiday clinic at MSAC with most of the team here, might just get one of the kids to ask Watts.

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

1 hour ago, DemonLad5 said:

My best guess is that Watts is out. In that case 

In: Hogan, Garlett, Kent, Kennedy

Out: Viney, Bugg, White, Stretch 

If Watts gets up, Pedo gets dropped. T.Mac has been our most dangerous forward for a few weeks now 

Pedo will not get dropped.

[WA Demon13 39]

White is an OUT surely ...

[ChaserJ 5,096]

On 04/07/2017 at 3:11 PM, loges said:

So Watts taken off as a precaution against Dogs, scans showed no tear, just "tightness". is about to miss his third game Sheesh !

I thought that Watts exacerbated the injury during the training session prior to the West Coast game.

Edited July 5, 2017 by ChaserJ

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I just wish the club would come out and be transparent with Watt's injury. If he's going to miss 3 more weeks, then tell us he's going to miss 3 more weeks. Rule him out early if he's no chance to play this week.

 

7 minutes ago, ChaserJ said:

I thought that Watt's exacerbated the injury during the training session prior to the West Coast game.

Watts said on Fox prior to the Sydney game he wouldn't be playing this week, as ChaserJ says, there was an issue at training and they are treating it as a normal hamstring tear in terms of recovery.