On 23/05/2017 at 02:59, binman said:

Honestly, you seem to have a significant problem with the English language, and in particular the meaning of words. 

Who said anything about bare minimums or minimum requirements? Until this post you did not mention anything about  bare minimums or minimum requirements and nor did I. 

You challenged posters to give an example OMac's 'strong attributes'. Note you didn't say 'elite attributes', 'above average attributes' or anything similar. You used the phrase 'strong attributes'. 

 

Yeh, I challenged posters to give me a strong attribute that Oscar possesses. And I got two stats. One which I already rebutted because of how misleading it is and the other I didn't even bother with because of how nonsensical it was. 

A poster measuring Oscar's endurance against other players, based on the minutes he plays on ground ?! Even though he is a key defender. That is not a thing. It's a nonsensical correlation.

I maintain that at this level, Oscar doesn't possess one strong and consistent attribute. Frost for example is really fast. That is his strong attribute. Hibberd is a strong user of the footy and strong intercept player. D'you see? Maybe we have a different idea of what difines a strong attribute, because it seems you're telling me what I meant by it. Strong attribute = strength.

I'm happy to leave it there.

  On 23/05/2017 at 22:50, stevethemanjordan said:

I'm happy to leave it there.

I doubt you are

This feels to me like one of those topics that we heatedly argue about for ages, then he signs a long term deal with his current club in July. 

Surely he's not going anywhere.

I am not against going for Lever or May but overall I feel our list is actually reasonably well balanced and that a key defender is not as big a requirement as other Demonlanders. (If anything, I think we really lack some class and pace on the outside of the midfield, with Bugg and Stretch not providing sufficient line breaking ability we need.) So, for me it all comes down to price in terms of picks and contract.

While Oscar McDonald is struggling against strong key forwards, he is still developing and he will get stronger and increase his intensity in the contest with age and experience. I predict he will develop into a pretty good player over the next two years, but I admit there is a wide range of possible outcomes and it might not be by 2018.

IMO our difficulties in defence this season have been due in part to Gawn getting injured (and Spencer) and not having a tall ruckman coming back into the back 50 to contest in the air. At the same time, we have also had our key position (and tall flanker) depth tested severely, with Garland, Joel Smith, Hogan, Frost, Hibberd, Lumumba, Hogan, Tim Smith and Vandenberg all missing games or retired. Pedersen also had a limited preseason. With all the injuries, Tom McDonald, who has been the linchpin of our defence over recent years, has been used in the ruck and up forward. Thus, with Gawn and Spencer out, and Tom McDonald shifted, we haven’t really had a true sample of games to assess our defence.

The other point I would make is that the Bulldogs won the flag last year with Hamling, Roberts and Morris as their key defenders. While they had a great finals series, Hamling and Roberts were no name players until after they won the premiership and Morris was a 190cm injury riddled, 33 year old. With a good game plan and a strong midfield, key defenders are not that important to being a successful side.

It is our lack of pressure up the ground and our forward delivery that is the biggest concern. With bad forward entries and lack of pressure up  the ground, it allows the opposition back man to stroll out of our forward line, uncontested and delivery the ball with no pressure.

  On 23/05/2017 at 06:40, Demons1858 said:

Apparently May is "planning to start contract talks with the Suns in the next three to four weeks" and wants to focus on his performance.

As captain the Suns will offer him an attractive longer term deal. If the deal doesn't get done then and negotiations stall he is likely to be out the door.

I guess we will watch this space in a few weeks time ...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/gold-coast/gold-coast-cocaptain-steven-may-stalls-on-new-contract/news-story/378f5e68a64db5fff3519daf71271061

 

The Suns are going nowhere fast.

May will be 26 yrs old for season 2018 so he's got another ~6 years left in him. 

I think he'll want to play it back in Victoria, on the MCG in front of friends and family.

And in red and blue.

  On 24/05/2017 at 00:31, McQueen said:

The Suns are going nowhere fast.

May will be 26 yrs old for season 2018 so he's got another ~6 years left in him. 

I think he'll want to play it back in Victoria, on the MCG in front of friends and family.

And in red and blue.

May is from Darwin. I know he went to Melbourne Grammar, but I don't think the pull to Victoria is not a key factor.

  On 24/05/2017 at 00:31, McQueen said:

The Suns are going nowhere fast.

May will be 26 yrs old for season 2018 so he's got another ~6 years left in him. 

I think he'll want to play it back in Victoria, on the MCG in front of friends and family.

And in red and blue.

He mentions his upbringing in the NT in the article.

No one has greater involvement there than the MFC with 2 games and our Next Gen Academy in Alice Springs

Done deal !

Edited May 24, 20177 yr by Demons1858

  On 22/05/2017 at 03:53, Luther said:

A mature back up ruck would be nice.

At least we have our tall defence 'covered', they just need to improve a bit.

We have one of those in Spencer. Maybe what you mean is a mature back up to our back up ruck!

^

You're totally right.

I have no idea where Freo would be without Ethan Hughes.

 

 

LOL at Carlton with Kreuzer - 13 wins, 29 losses. Fantastic.

I'm hearing Hawthorn are now well and truly in the mix and the VERY early favourites to secure him.

If GC want to get near the offers that are being talked about, expect to see Ablett back in the hoops to free up some cap space.

Unrelated but the same source also said not to expect to see Brayshaw on the park this year. Long term prognosis positive, but not much to be gained by bringing him back with 3-4 weeks left in the season.

  On 22/05/2017 at 13:33, goodwindees said:

May is a 26 yo key defender who is a Captain of his Club.  Some guys here believe he is the answer to our defensive problems, yet believe that we could get him for a 2nd rounder & a de-list in Kent.  

GC would want our first rounder plus a Tyson or maybe our 3rd rounder for the points.  I would also estimate that May would not want a penny less than $2.8 to $3 million over 4 years.  Must say I'm a little concerned about the 193 cm.

Purely based on priorities, it's a NO from me, I want the 200 cm forward/ruck and 2 x quick, skilful, precise kicking outside mids. 

 

I'm with you. Frost and OMac are good defenders for mine. What they might lack against the bulls (Hawkins) they make up for in leg speed and endurance (Cameron, Kennedy, Riewoldt). 

Another key forward with 3-4 years of experience is vital whilst Weidemann and in all reality Hogan continue to develop. Even a 3-4 year forward is still developing a fair bit.

Agree with the quick outside mides/half backs as well.

  On 24/05/2017 at 05:22, HBDee said:

I'm with you. Frost and OMac are good defenders for mine. What they might lack against the bulls (Hawkins) they make up for in leg speed and endurance (Cameron, Kennedy, Riewoldt). 

Another key forward with 3-4 years of experience is vital whilst Weidemann and in all reality Hogan continue to develop. Even a 3-4 year forward is still developing a fair bit.

Agree with the quick outside mides/half backs as well.

I agree, beyond the reality of where the players are developmentally, I think there is a structural problem of pushing up high allowing free space for the opposition mids to win the ball then get out over the back...last week felt a little like Pagans Paddock.... not too much a scrawny kid can do on Brown when its been delivered on his [censored].

I don't like exposing our back line...but [censored] it - I've never coached a game of football in my life, and no nothing about systems... I am however a reluctant expert who righteously posts on forums such as this. 

Edited May 24, 20177 yr by Danelska

  On 24/05/2017 at 05:22, HBDee said:

Another key forward with 3-4 years of experience is vital whilst Weidemann and in all reality Hogan continue to develop. Even a 3-4 year forward is still developing a fair bit.

I don't disagree, but it's easier said than done with Collingwood, Carlton and Richmond all in that market and more desperate than us.  Who do you suggest we chase?

  On 24/05/2017 at 04:50, stevethemanjordan said:

^

You're totally right.

I have no idea where Freo would be without Ethan Hughes.

 

 

Right about what? I posted the graphic to highlight what a great defender May is, this being a thread about May and all. Remarkably since the start of 2015 he has missed 11 games and the suns have lost them all. Critical player for them as are the other players at the top of team's lists. Some pretty good players at the top of those lists. 

Oh wait, i see what you're getting at. OMac tops ours Go figure.. Who would have thunk it?  That Oliver lad seems to be pretty important also. 

Edited May 24, 20177 yr by binman

  On 24/05/2017 at 05:54, binman said:

Right about what? I posted the graphic to highlight what a great defender May is, this being a thread about May and all. Remarkably since the start of 2015 he has missed 11 games and the suns have lost them all. Critical player for them as are the other players at the top of team's lists. Some pretty good players at the top of those lists. 

Oh wait, i see what you're getting at. OMac tops ours Go figure.. Who would have thunk it?  That Oliver lad seems to be pretty important also. 

It's the most inane list I've ever seen, and if anybody draws any conclusions from it, they need to give it away. 

Captain Obvious can tell that Freo will win more games with Sandilands in, and the same applies to Jarrad Waite, but 50% of the players on that list weren't playing because they weren't selected.

  On 24/05/2017 at 06:27, mo64 said:

 

Captain Obvious can tell that Freo will win more games with Sandilands in, and the same applies to Jarrad Waite, but 50% of the players on that list weren't playing because they weren't selected.

So what you're saying is these stats have some validity. Teflects well on omac i guess

  On 23/05/2017 at 09:26, Wiseblood said:

Great logic.  We need key backs so we'll trade away the ones we have.  Brilliant.

List management at its greatest.  Get that blokes CV in now 

  On 24/05/2017 at 05:22, HBDee said:

I'm with you. Frost and OMac are good defenders for mine. What they might lack against the bulls (Hawkins) they make up for in leg speed and endurance (Cameron, Kennedy, Riewoldt). 

Another key forward with 3-4 years of experience is vital whilst Weidemann and in all reality Hogan continue to develop. Even a 3-4 year forward is still developing a fair bit.

Agree with the quick outside mides/half backs as well.

Neither Frost nor Oscar are gorilla minding generals of the back.

That the player we NEED , to stop us haemorrhaging goals down there.

I'd be more than happy to have May/Lever ,tMac, Hibberd, Jetta, Frost, Hunt as a backline

  On 24/05/2017 at 05:09, Captain_Jack said:

I'm hearing Hawthorn are now well and truly in the mix and the VERY early favourites to secure him.

If GC want to get near the offers that are being talked about, expect to see Ablett back in the hoops to free up some cap space.

Unrelated but the same source also said not to expect to see Brayshaw on the park this year. Long term prognosis positive, but not much to be gained by bringing him back with 3-4 weeks left in the season.

Damn Cats. Soon we'll be saying stop 15 of them and they have no one.

Ab-Wood-Danger: sounds like a Current Affair headline concerning an infomercial exercise-apparatus fad.

We may have better Leverage elsewhere 

  On 23/05/2017 at 23:58, Nasher said:

This feels to me like one of those topics that we heatedly argue about for ages, then he signs a long term deal with his current club in July. 

Surely he's not going anywhere.

Agreed.

... so that gives us a month or so to dream!

  On 24/05/2017 at 07:34, beelzebub said:

Neither Frost nor Oscar are gorilla minding generals of the back.

That the player we NEED , to stop us haemorrhaging goals down there.

I'd be more than happy to have May/Lever ,tMac, Hibberd, Jetta, Frost, Hunt as a backline

bb, l assume by 'gorilla' forwards you mean the solid types eg Buddy, Hawkins, Kennedy, Walker, Cloke.  These guys are around 195-197m, 95+kg and are getting older. 

The next gen are more likely to be the mobile, 200cm, lithe types eg Brown, Daniher, Scache, Moore, Lynch. 

So for mine the backline you outline will be too short.  The FF has kicked a bag on us in nearly every game this year in part because we are too short or our players don't have the leap. 

We need to structure up to compete with the 200cm forwards of the future.