6 hours ago, beelzebub said:

What's Oscar worth ? 

Could be as much as $10 each if he learns how to spoil.  

20 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

No doubt we should chase him.  I'm always a little skittish when it comes to trading high draft picks, but I think we're in a position now where our list is young enough that we can add these types of players and not miss a beat.

Other clubs will be interested, but I know we would have the salary cap room and the obvious position down back for him that we might be able to coax him down.  Hopefully the club are right into him at the minute.

I think we still need to be at the high end of the draft this year...we missed last years early crop and will have a few ageing mids (lewis, Vince & Jones) to replace over the coming years.

4 minutes ago, rjay said:

I think we still need to be at the high end of the draft this year...we missed last years early crop and will have a few ageing mids (lewis, Vince & Jones) to replace over the coming years.

That's the only thing that doesn't sit well with me either.  We do have a decision to make, though, in terms of addressing a few needs.  Do we go for a potential star in May, or do we look to fill with someone like a Marcus Adams - a bigger player from the VFL/SANFL/WAFL through the draft, or even picking up someone on the cheap?

We probably say it every year, but it's a crucial off season for us.  There is still plenty of water to go under the bridge but we have some gaps to fill and we may need to get a little creative in doing it.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

That's the only thing that doesn't sit well with me either.  We do have a decision to make, though, in terms of addressing a few needs.  Do we go for a potential star in May, or do we look to fill with someone like a Marcus Adams - a bigger player from the VFL/SANFL/WAFL through the draft, or even picking up someone on the cheap?

We probably say it every year, but it's a crucial off season for us.  There is still plenty of water to go under the bridge but we have some gaps to fill and we may need to get a little creative in doing it.

 

 

Ultimately it comes down to the confidence in oscar to develop quickly enough to reach that level. 

Im not sold on the idea he will even be as good as his brother let along Steven may but the club would know better

6 hours ago, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

He's a key position player and the captain of the club, so I don't think a combination of 2nd and 3rd round picks with NQR's like Kent, Watts etc. will get it done.

Gold Coast would ask for our first pick (10ish) and a starting midfielder.  They'd ask for Salem and hopefully you could get away with Tyson.  I agree he's better than what we've got right now but are Frost and the McDonald's developing that poorly to give Pick 10 and Tyson for a 26 year old?  

I really like May as a player and he has some real mongrel, but with Vince and Lewis almost done, and our only Ruck/Forward (Pedersen) 30 as well, I'd have other priorities.

Some good points

33 minutes ago, Abe said:

Ultimately it comes down to the confidence in oscar to develop quickly enough to reach that level. 

Im not sold on the idea he will even be as good as his brother let along Steven may but the club would know better

All good points there Abe.  The market will also determine our interest - if clubs are flinging around silly money then we may need to rethink our approach.  I don't want to a club that pays overs and sets that precedent for the players who are already there.  We aren't a Manchester United who can throw around money and it doesn't matter.  

However, we do need some further quality on the list, so if May is happy to play for us and it's for the right price then sign him up.  I just don't want us to go overboard and we find it hard to sign some of our younger players going forward.

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I think we still need to be at the high end of the draft this year...we missed last years early crop and will have a few ageing mids (lewis, Vince & Jones) to replace over the coming years.

With free agency & the ease with which out of contract players get to their preferred destination I'm not too worried about this.

Unless we have a top 5 pick, which is unlikely, I would be more than happy to trade this for the right price. We've got talented youth all over the ground, we need more ready to go guns to elevate us into the finals.

Once we are there we can look to top up certain areas through free agency and trading, building the team around our already strong core of Hogan, Hunt, Oliver, Viney, Tyson, Petracca, Brayshaw, the McDonalds, Frost, Salem, Weideman. That is such a strong bunch of young players that we need the experienced bodies around them now.

I'd also like to see us go after a quick, goal kicker to help Garlett (Kent is not doing it for me atm).

1 hour ago, Abe said:

Ultimately it comes down to the confidence in oscar to develop quickly enough to reach that level. 

Im not sold on the idea he will even be as good as his brother let along Steven may but the club would know better

God help us if we are 'needing' Oscar to do so. Fine if he does, but geebus what nutjob of a club doesn't look beyond.

Steven May for MFC pick 10. Yes. Offer him a 5 year deal.

There's an extra $2mill in SC next year according the article in The Age about Norf's offer to Dusty. How in hell can they hope to land Kelly and Dusty?

$2mill could us help land May and a mid such as D Smith, the Rabbit or Whitless from GWS

May is a 26 yo key defender who is a Captain of his Club.  Some guys here believe he is the answer to our defensive problems, yet believe that we could get him for a 2nd rounder & a de-list in Kent.  

GC would want our first rounder plus a Tyson or maybe our 3rd rounder for the points.  I would also estimate that May would not want a penny less than $2.8 to $3 million over 4 years.  Must say I'm a little concerned about the 193 cm.

Purely based on priorities, it's a NO from me, I want the 200 cm forward/ruck and 2 x quick, skilful, precise kicking outside mids. 

 

I'd try trading our 2018 first rounder for him. 

And @goodwindees, no, we don't need to trade one of our 5 young mids (you need 8-10 decent mids to compete for a flag) to attract May. You convince May to come over and then you have the leverage. Picks will do the trick, but you don't touch our mids or our spine. 

Second rounder at tops. May isn't very good.

20 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Didn't Hurley recommit to the Bombers last year? Pretty sure he's tied up 

Absolutely but we were into him prior to this last summer . 

9 hours ago, goodwindees said:

May is a 26 yo key defender who is a Captain of his Club.  

 

That would be co-captain with Tom Lynch who appears more likely to take the key role.

2 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Second rounder at tops. May isn't very good.

who at melbourne is a better full back ?

He'd be great but I don't think he'll actually leave, plus I think the price might be very high which some have pointed out could cost us in terms of either planning to replenish the older guys or cost us one of the younger guns. 

What about a free agent hit with Jackson Trengrove from Port? As far as I know he hasn't re-signed and would cover not only the key back spot but also offer ruck support if needed. I also think he'd play much better with the zone defense we're using, compared to May who's better just staying on the bigger guys.

19 hours ago, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

He's a key position player and the captain of the club, so I don't think a combination of 2nd and 3rd round picks with NQR's like Kent, Watts etc. will get it done.

Gold Coast would ask for our first pick (10ish) and a starting midfielder.  They'd ask for Salem and hopefully you could get away with Tyson.  I agree he's better than what we've got right now but are Frost and the McDonald's developing that poorly to give Pick 10 and Tyson for a 26 year old?  

I really like May as a player and he has some real mongrel, but with Vince and Lewis almost done, and our only Ruck/Forward (Pedersen) 30 as well, I'd have other priorities.

Agree.

If we think that Oscar is going to make it, then is May really #1 priority?

I'm less confident that Brayshaw is going to make it now and Vince and Lewis are near the end.  I think midfield class is a greater priority.

I'm less confident about Weid and Ruck-Fwd than I am about TMac, OMac and Frost in KPD.  I think that's #2 priority ahead of KPB.

im not sure who the player will be...as it comes down to desirability mixed with availability but I do hope we are looking around with great endeavour . Its a BIG hole back there !!

22 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Demonland the day after a win:

The premiership is ours!

Demonland the day after a loss:

Trade everyone!

(Closely followed by 14 pages of arguing with each other about the order in which to trade - and who is the 'softest' of our players)

 

 

You're talking about a certain group of posters who are like that on this forum.

Many of us knew that last week's game was a response win and the following game against North was going to be just as important, if not more so.

 

22 hours ago, binman said:

Surprise, surprise. A poster responds to your puerile offer of $10 to a poster to find 'one strong attribute that Oscar has to his game'.  A poster responds with not one but two 'strong attributes' - one percenters (which is actually a goods stat in terms of assessing a players effort level) and endurance, which is an obvious strength of OMac. And you derisively reject both points. Classic case of confirmation bias if i ever saw one.

OMac played well last week and was ok this week. And i watched both games. His effort, spoiling, ability to run back with the flight of the ball and not give away a free, his ability to play his part in a zone defense, his work ethic and his team first attitude are all strong attributes that Oscar brings to his game. You can give my $10 to Demonland.

 

If you were to go and look up what acts are included in the "one-percenter" stat, you will find that it's ridiculous and doesn't give a true indication of a player's worth.

There are four actions that count toward a one-percenter: Knock-ons, spoils, smothers and shepherds. Now I can say right now that rarely have I seen Oscar smother the ball from someones kick or shepherd. Which leaves two actions left.

Now if you go and look at what constitutes a 'spoil' in a marking contest as well as a 'knock-on', you will see how ridiculous these isolated stats are and what indeed is counted as both a spoil and a knock-on. A spoil that is recorded on a stats sheet is extremely limited in that it doesn't take into account things like who's advantage the ball is kicked to, whether or not the forward fumbled a mark, whether the defender fumbled a mark, how effective the spoil was etc etc.

I'm talking about real, identifiable attributes. Not wildly inconsistent isolated stats that rarely take into account the wider context of the unfolding play.

 

You might think all those other qualities that you've listed are his 'strong points'. 

I would say they are minimum requirements for a defender playing at this level. The top level. AFL.

Maybe you're part of the soft Melbourne supporter group who are really easily pleased by bare minimums due to the fact that we've been below par for the last decade in nearly every facet of the club. It's not surprising that some supporters get excited by individual play that would otherwise be considered bare-minimum by any decent club's standard. This is not the amateurs. It's the elite. And if we want to compete in this environment, you simply can't be happy with bare-minimum.

 

Edited May 23, 20178 yr by stevethemanjordan

13 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

There's an extra $2mill in SC next year according the article in The Age about Norf's offer to Dusty. How in hell can they hope to land Kelly and Dusty?

$2mill could us help land May and a mid such as D Smith, the Rabbit or Whitless from GWS

Who is the rabbit?

12 minutes ago, CatFishPig said:

Who is the rabbit?

Coniglio. Italian for rabbit 

2 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

He'd be great but I don't think he'll actually leave, plus I think the price might be very high which some have pointed out could cost us in terms of either planning to replenish the older guys or cost us one of the younger guns. 

What about a free agent hit with Jackson Trengrove from Port? As far as I know he hasn't re-signed and would cover not only the key back spot but also offer ruck support if needed. I also think he'd play much better with the zone defense we're using, compared to May who's better just staying on the bigger guys.

Great call, RaBe! 

Apparently he wants to stay at Port but Port may value the high compensation draft pick they will get for him and let him go.  http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/port-adelaides-mr-fixit-jackson-trengove-could-face-an-afl-freeagency-dilemma/news-story/4d3f0472ae39ab356ddfa29d8bdcb128

The article mentions Demons, Essendon and North as clubs who might make an offer he can't refuse but then Hawks and Cats also need a key defender so there may well be a bit of competition for Trengove.

I would love to see us be on the receiving end of attracting a good FA. 

And I reckon he is almost as good as May and as you say offers an on-ground ruck option.  He would also be our second tallest player behind Gawn.  And we desperately need talls around the ground.

With the CBA we have the sal cap to substantially front end his contract and we keep our draft picks.

I say get him!

Edited May 23, 20178 yr by Lucifer's Hero

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

I'm talking about real, identifiable attributes. Not wildly inconsistent isolated stats that rarely take into account the wider context of the unfolding play.

You might think all those other qualities that you've listed are his 'strong points'. 

I would say they are minimum requirements for a defender playing at this level. The top level. AFL.

Maybe you're part of the soft Melbourne supporter group who are really easily pleased by bare minimums due to the fact that we've been below par for the last decade in nearly every facet of the club. It's not surprising that some supporters get excited by individual play that would otherwise be considered bare-minimum by any decent club's standard. This is not the amateurs. It's the elite. And if we want to compete in this environment, you simply can't be happy with bare-minimum.

 

Honestly, you seem to have a significant problem with the English language, and in particular the meaning of words. 

Who said anything about bare minimums or minimum requirements? Until this post you did not mention anything about  bare minimums or minimum requirements and nor did I. 

You challenged posters to give an example OMac's 'strong attributes'. Note you didn't say 'elite attributes', 'above average attributes' or anything similar. You used the phrase 'strong attributes'. 

Clearly he has a number of strong attributes. Otherwise he would not have been drafted by an AFL club, not would he be in the second year of an AFL career, playing regularly for a team that is on the improve and hoping to make finals. or for that matter a key player in back 6 that kept the premiership favorites - and highest scoring side in the league - to 10 odd goals on their home ground in near perfect conditions.  I agree the qualities I listed as his 'strong points' are minimum requirements for a defender playing at this level. Strong attributes in other words. It makes no sense at all to suggest to he has no strong attributes. Plain silly.

Similarly you stated he was not AFL standard. Despite the fact he is playing AFL and continues to get selected to play AFL senior football. And don't give me nonsense about not having other options. if he was not at AFL standard he would have been de-listed after his first season and if he had somehow avoided that fate would not be selected in the seniors this year. Again plain silly.

Now to be clear i have not made similarly silly, black and white, definitive statements about OMac. He has a long way to go. We do need another defender and in particularly a really good defender like May or Lever. If we got one i believe (but will not state as fact as you seem so keen to do) he would remain in the team and be a very important tall running defender. 

But how about we agree to disagree and leave it there on the OMac topic. I think the one thing we can both agree on is we are not going to convince the other person our position is the correct one. 

For mine, this season has highlighted some areas we need shore up. The issue is that each year there are only a certain number of players coming out of contract and that are gettable. While the MFC will try to fill all of the deficiencies you can't be too picky about the priorities unless of course you are Hawthorn or Geelong and you have a leading reputation of performance and culture over a long period of time. So we need some of the following to become an elite and serious finals team not in any order of priority.

We need a decent back up ruck or decent forward / ruck that can ruck all day if we have injuries

• the cupboard is bare on our list (Spencer isn't dependable and King is a question mark). We can't have another year derailed like this one. We should poach a teams 2nd ruck like Preuss or rookie a more mature player at VFL level. If Spencer is injury prone there is no point having him on the list

We need talent and speed at the fall of the ball in the forward half

• Have liked Kent in the past but we should shore this area up by focusing on rookies next year e.g. Garlett, McDonald-Tipungwuti, Davey were all rookies

Any high quality established key back/key forward/midfielder would add to the list at the right age (not interested in mid range quality types for this category)

• Midfield: Lewis, Vince and even Jones aren't getting any younger. Brayshaw looks to have issues
• Forward: Weid might not make it and is atleast another 2 seasons away before he can be assured of starting in the 22
• Backs: Frost and OMac are showing some promise but are not guaranteed to make it

The reality however is that there isn't a large pool of high quality established players wanting to come to MFC or any club for that matter, so we need to consider any that might be interested. If we can get May interested then we go hard as he fits one of our needs. That would leave OMac or Frost to develop and compete for the remaining key defensive spots or be traded if they aren't up to it

Edited May 23, 20178 yr by Demons1858