Definitely overs but I'm thrilled to have Jake at the club! 

I'm backing that Josh Mahoney still has a few tricks up his sleeve over the remainder of the trade period that will see us advance back up this/next year's draft order.

 

Posters like @Nasher, @stevethemanjordan and @ProDee are three of many who have summed this up superbly.

We've just added the best young defender in the league to our list who is a proven commodity.  He instantly makes us better, and he not only beings on field talent but off field leadership as well.  I couldn't be happier to have him in our side and I trust Taylor to pull a few diamonds out of the rough to add to our list, much like he did we Hannan this year.

Onwards and upwards!

Even if we win a premiership the whingers will still whinge about what we had to give up to achieve it.

Way overs and when combined with the high salary it is much too high for a medium level performer. (By medium I mean this is the price that one pays for an elite performer and he is not that.)

Oh well let's hope he delivers .... MFC does not have a great history with high priced trades

Edited October 12, 20177 yr by Diamond_Jim

Keeping next years 1st round would have been ideal but its not that bad a deal.

Its basically Lever for pick 10 and around pick 40 when you add/include the points value and the other pics included.

Out -  10, 15ish (2018 1st)  & 60ish (2018 4th)

In - Lever, 35 & 50ish (2018 3rd).

Net result

out - 10 and pick 40ish (pick 6 equivalent points)

In - lever

WIN

Edited October 12, 20177 yr by Grimes Times

  On 12/10/2017 at 00:01, ProDee said:

For every top 10 pick in Oliver there's an Grant, Vickery, Butcher, Moore, Aish, Toumpas, Morabito, Conca, Gorringe, Gumbleton, O'Rourke, Morton, Buntine, Sumner, & Freeman.

These are the more recent top 10 fails (injuries included), but there are also plenty who are just solid foot soldiers.

Lever is the best young defender in the game with a decade ahead of him.  He's only going to get better.  He's fits into a perfect profile in that he's in the same age bracket as Viney, Hogan, Petracca, Salem, Oliver, Brayshaw, Hunt, Osca, ANB, Stretch, and Weideman.  That's a great core who'll grow together.

You've got to give to get and I'll take the certainty of Lever over the speculation of pick 10 and a future pick in the teens.  As we get better we'll also have other players keen to join the club.

But I ask you, how many recent top 10 draft picks have Adelaide, Sydney, and Geelong had since 2008.

Adelaide's last top 10 draft pick was in 2008.  They also got Brad Crouch in a mini draft.  So let's say two top 10 quality players in 9 years.

Since 2008 Sydney have had 2 top 10 draft picks, plus Heeney, who would have been.  Three in 9 years.

Since 2008 Geelong have had 1 top 10 draft pick.  One in 9 years - and that was pick 10 itself.

Let's throw in Hawthorn.  Since 2008 Hawthorn have had zero top 10 draft picks.  Zero in 9 years.

Melbourne ?

Ten in 9 years, including Hogan from the mini draft.

You can [censored] and moan about giving up pick 10 and a future pick in the teens, but we've had our time in the draft and it's now time to get proven quality players into the club and start making an assault on the ladder and competition.

It was a no brainer and I couldn't be happier.

A good analysis. the comparison is a useful exercise and provides perspective. Also agree that "as we get better we'll have other players keen to join.""

In any negotiated outcome, there are differences of opinion. A good outcome is one where both sides feel they have had a win or gained something from it. in order to get the outcome we wanted (get Lever) we had to trade. It could be better or worse, only time will tell, but to criticize Mahoney and the club for their efforts is unreasonable. If the Lever deal had fallen through, no one would have been happy. 

Mahoneys negotiating skills are particularly poor. He was in a commanding position in this trade, Lever could have gone to the draft Luke Ball style and Crows would have gotten nothing. If he stood firm on 10 + 27 they would have had no choice but to capitulate.

Likewise, telegraphing to the world that we didnt want Watts devalued his currency significantly.

Obviously the guys know what they are doing when it comes to talent and footy, they just need a decent business advisor to help them in doing deals.

  On 12/10/2017 at 00:01, ProDee said:

For every top 10 pick in Oliver there's an Grant, Vickery, Butcher, Moore, Aish, Toumpas, Morabito, Conca, Gorringe, Gumbleton, O'Rourke, Morton, Buntine, Sumner, & Freeman.

These are the more recent top 10 fails (injuries included), but there are also plenty who are just solid foot soldiers.

Lever is the best young defender in the game with a decade ahead of him.  He's only going to get better.  He's fits into a perfect profile in that he's in the same age bracket as Viney, Hogan, Petracca, Salem, Oliver, Brayshaw, Hunt, Osca, ANB, Stretch, and Weideman.  That's a great core who'll grow together.

You've got to give to get and I'll take the certainty of Lever over the speculation of pick 10 and a future pick in the teens.  As we get better we'll also have other players keen to join the club.

But I ask you, how many recent top 10 draft picks have Adelaide, Sydney, and Geelong had since 2008.

Adelaide's last top 10 draft pick was in 2008.  They also got Brad Crouch in a mini draft.  So let's say two top 10 quality players in 9 years.

Since 2008 Sydney have had 2 top 10 draft picks, plus Heeney, who would have been.  Three in 9 years.

Since 2008 Geelong have had 1 top 10 draft pick.  One in 9 years - and that was pick 10 itself.

Let's throw in Hawthorn.  Since 2008 Hawthorn have had zero top 10 draft picks.  Zero in 9 years.

Melbourne ?

Ten in 9 years, including Hogan from the mini draft.

You can [censored] and moan about giving up pick 10 and a future pick in the teens, but we've had our time in the draft and it's now time to get proven quality players into the club and start making an assault on the ladder and competition.

It was a no brainer and I couldn't be happier.

Well put.

And to all those bemoaning giving up first round draft picks, I give you the following -

Strauss, Blease, Cook, Toumpas, Tapscott, Gysberts, Petterd, Morton, 

I could go on but I`m sure you can see my point by now.

 

  On 12/10/2017 at 00:06, Diamond_Jim said:

Way overs and when combined with the high salary it is much too high for a medium level performer. (By medium I mean this is the price that one pays for an elite performer and he is not that.)

Oh well let's hope he delivers .... MFC does not have a great history with high priced trades

How is he not elite? Best intercept player in the game - something we do NOT have down back. Made All Australian 40 man squad. Future leader. Clean user of the ball.

  On 11/10/2017 at 23:19, ProDee said:

Rapt with this.

Three AA squad members now in our back 6 plus the improving Oscar, speedster Hunt and developing Frost.

Some outside speed and Weideman stepping up would help complete a very talented side.

I'm rapt too. Getting the deal done this early (comparatively for a standard trade fortnight) means we almost certainly have something else in the works. I reckon we're looking at packaging 2 or 3 second rounders to trade back into the first round this year. We'll then shop that first round pick around and if we fail to land anyone, take a top 20 pick to the draft. 

In terms of our list, our area of weakness is certainly our forwardline, but as Richmond have shown with their mosquito fleet, you can build a forward machine with speculative picks. For the moment, we need to keep building our engine room and adding that outside speed that you refer to.

Hogan, McDonald, Garlett, Petracca are locks for the forward half and in 2018 Hannan will be around about too. We need some more speed and a goal sneak partner for Jeffy. Is that going to be DJ? Who knows. I'm not sure we'll be able to play Hogan, McDonald and Weideman in the same side. Not enough forward pressure, but we'll see.

 

A reminder that we now have picks 27, 35 and 45 heading into this draft.

Given certain club's needs to obtain multiple draft picks for points for father/son or academy zone players, it's not out of the question that we won't once again make a play to get back into the first round.

So again, [censored] relax.

Given the percentage that cost us a spot in the finals, having Jake in the team would have saved some of those precious points scored against us. If we had made the finals, who knows what could have happened. We beat most teams in the top 8. We beat Adelaide, and should have beaten the Tigers (before we choked - in a game where Jake's skills could have stemmed the tide). So players like Jake make a difference, and lift the rest of the team.

This trade is costly, but you always get what you pay for. We're paying for 10 years of actual defence, and youngsters to one day learn from Jake and the others who have benefited from his presence.

The fact that Jake wants to be here shows we're on the right track. Bring on 2018.

Edited October 12, 20177 yr by RedButMostlyBlue

We grossly overvalue draft picks in the AFL. You go into the draft with normally less than a 50% draft of turning a first round pick into a 150 game player, let alone a superstar.

We have essentially bet against the draft, and secured a guaranteed young talented player who will impact games automatically.

It's a smart trade, and a huge win for our club.

Love it.

  On 12/10/2017 at 00:13, GawnWithTheWind said:

We grossly overvalue draft picks in the AFL. You go into the draft with normally less than a 50% draft of turning a first round pick into a 150 game player, let alone a superstar.

We have essentially bet against the draft, and secured a guaranteed young talented player who will impact games automatically.

It's a smart trade, and a huge win for our club.

Love it.

and what coin do we have to trade with next year as Lewis Jones etc etc come to the end of their playing careers.

Not as though we have a wealth of players we can offer up for trades

Rather than look it as 2 x 1st rounders, look at what number the picks are. So over two years it's a pick 10 and (arguably) pick 14 with a swap of later picks. And we get the best young defender in the game, recently in AA squad, massive leadership potential. 

 

Well done MFC.

Yet another quality player brought into the club in recent years.

I'm pumped about this.

No excuses for not playing finals next year.

 

 

 In addition to Lever, the Crows gave the Demons pick No.35 and their 2018 third-round selection. 

 

Didn't realise we got the extra third round pick next season.

  On 11/10/2017 at 23:53, ignition. said:

I'm not arguing that a club can not build a team using late picks and development.

But on that note look lets look at the premiers: Cotchin #2, Martin #3, Riewoldt #13, Rance #18, Ellis #15, Caddy #7, Rioli #15 (all first round picks). 

I'm arguing about currency. We have no Leverage, excuse the pun, to draft or trade a "star" in next years super-draft.

I'll repeat that I'm thrilled we got Lever. But Mahoney & co. could and should have played it better.

Remember the other year when we traded up from nothing picks with academy clubs and ended up with a high first rounder?

It is what it is, and we got what we want.

The onus is now on Jake and the rest of the players to ensure that next year's first round pick is as close to 18 as possible.

10 and 18 for Lever... not too bad.

I still cant shake the fact he looks like Sheldon Cooper's evil twin

Stoked for the club!! Not only have we brought in one of the best intercept / 3rd defenders in the game, he's only 21 and fits our core age group perfectly. The draft is a lottery and I reckon the deal is within the realms of a fair trade.

He should allow Oscar to focus on developing into a key defender, be the Astbury to Rance so to say.

Welcome Jake!

  On 12/10/2017 at 00:11, stevethemanjordan said:

A reminder that we now have picks 27, 35 and 45 heading into this draft.

Given certain club's needs to obtain multiple draft picks for points for father/son or academy zone players, it's not out of the question that we won't once again make a play to get back into the first round.

So again, [censored] relax.

Agreed.

Plus whatever we get for a Watts trade, presuming this happens. Think we are planning something else significant before trade period ends

  On 12/10/2017 at 00:02, MikeAlphaTango said:

Rapt to get Lever, we have some serious young talent now Lever, Hunt, Oliver and Petracca in the AFLPA Under 22 team.

We can revisit who won this trade in 5 years time.

A really sensible post and an insight into Mahoney's thinking.  As said earlier, they are backing in the talent there now, topping up, allowing Tom Mac flexibility and saying again - destination club..  This stat from MikeAlpha says we have pro rata 4 times as many good Under 22's than we should on average.

Mission accomplished. Beating yourselves up over picks or whatever is meaningless and not how business gets done in real life.

 

A key message there I reckon.

  On 12/10/2017 at 00:09, Bring Back Barassi said:

Mahoneys negotiating skills are particularly poor. He was in a commanding position in this trade, Lever could have gone to the draft Luke Ball style and Crows would have gotten nothing. If he stood firm on 10 + 27 they would have had no choice but to capitulate.

Likewise, telegraphing to the world that we didnt want Watts devalued his currency significantly.

Obviously the guys know what they are doing when it comes to talent and footy, they just need a decent business advisor to help them in doing deals.

Long-term it's better to do a deal. It's possible we may want something Adelaide has in the future and we don't want to make d*cks of ourselves. It's not swap cards or some gambling game at the casino.

We get a proven 21-year-old defender with a 10-year career projection for a couple of draft picks that may be hit and miss. And the better we get next year, the less valuable next year's first rounder becomes.

And as soon as Watts was mentioned anywhere as a trade, even within the confines of the trading period, other clubs would know we didn't really want him.

  On 12/10/2017 at 00:13, GawnWithTheWind said:

We grossly overvalue draft picks in the AFL. You go into the draft with normally less than a 50% draft of turning a first round pick into a 150 game player, let alone a superstar.

We have essentially bet against the draft, and secured a guaranteed young talented player who will impact games automatically.

It's a smart trade, and a huge win for our club.

Love it.

Nailed it.