26 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

30 years?

Sorry mate, but in that time we've had a Brownlow winning mid, AA players,  not to mention multiple B&F winners.

I don't disagree that Clarry has the tools to be as good if not better than those guys, but 'He is already the best midfielder we have had in the last 30 years' is crazy talk ....think before you post!

 

I did think before I posted.

The guys you named have him for longevity obviously.

None of them have had remotely anywhere as good a season as Oliver's 2017 and none had anywhere near the upside.

He is already better than any of them ever were in their best seasons.

8 minutes ago, Deestroy All said:

Fair enough. 

Out of curiosity, excluding Flower, of the mids you've named and Oliver, if you had to pick one of them at 20 years old, who would you pick?

It's a moot point isn't it? Comparing the past to the present when the guys are full time footballers with state of the art sport science behind them makes it difficult.

As I said before, not disagreeing that clarry may well become better than all of them, or that's he's ahead of where they could have been at the same age, but to just say he's already better than them isn't right IMO

 

9 minutes ago, Deestroy All said:

Fair enough. 

Out of curiosity, excluding Flower, of the mids you've named and Oliver, if you had to pick one of them at 20 years old, who would you pick?

Tingay, sliding doors though, this is if he didn't have that terrible accident, guy was a pure jet. Gerard Healy went ok too even if he did leave us. Oliver doesn't have a roof yet, that is pretty exciting.

well, it's 30 years since 87, i'd say since then our best mids have been, in order of what i think of as 'eras' of football before our current captain became our best mid:

- robbie
- brian wilson
- todd viney
- stephen stretch
- sugar healy
- glenn lovett
- stephen tingay
- andrew obst
- kevin dyson
- andrew leoncelli
- shane woewodin
- cam bruce
- stephen powell
- travis johnstone
- james mcdonald
- brent moloney
- brock mclean

i think that oliver can be significantly better than all of them

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

I did think before I posted.

The guys you named have him for longevity obviously.

None of them have had remotely anywhere as good a season as Oliver's 2017 and none had anywhere near the upside.

He is already better than any of them ever were in their best seasons.

Spoke to a mate a few years ago who's pushing 50 and is a demons tragic and asked him who the best midfielder of his life he can remember in red and blue. He's looking back to probably the mid-late eighties possibly... and he said Viney. But not Jack...

Since then he reckons Jack, Christian and Clarry are all likely to be the best in his time. It's exciting, yes... obviously... but it also sort of says a lot about our midfields over the last 30 years.

In the afl era, Melbourne has never had a midfield star but we have had some damm good players, Cam Bruce, Yze, Viney and Tingay, Jones would be at the top of my list. Oliver could go past them but hasn't done so by a long way yet, as a pure mid I haven't see a better start to a career so much so it is easy overlook how exceptional he has been for a 19 yo 30 something game player, his average games are better than his peers best games so far.

Edited August 3, 20178 yr by Garbo
Forgot jones

6 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

well, it's 30 years since 87, i'd say since then our best mids have been, in order of what i think of as 'eras' of football before our current captain became our best mid:

- robbie
- brian wilson
- todd viney
- stephen stretch
- sugar healy
- glenn lovett
- stephen tingay
- andrew obst
- kevin dyson
- andrew leoncelli
- shane woewodin
- cam bruce
- stephen powell
- travis johnstone
- james mcdonald
- brent moloney
- brock mclean

i think that oliver can be significantly better than all of them

Growing up, I wore number 7 (Brian Wilson) on my back, while my brothers had 2 (Flower), 3 (Gerard Healy) and 9 (Alan Johnson).

If we're going to include these guys in the conversation as best MFC midfielders over last 30 odd years, then Clarry - as good as he is - has a bit to go.

Willo won a Brownlow as a 20 year old centreman. Johnno was a 2-time B&F winner as a wingman (later a champion back pocket) with Robbie in the team. Heals was all silk and a fantastic goal kicker.

And Robbie, well, he remains a class above any Melbourne player, let alone midfielder, I've ever seen.

7 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

well, it's 30 years since 87, i'd say since then our best mids have been, in order of what i think of as 'eras' of football before our current captain became our best mid:

- robbie
- brian wilson
- todd viney
- stephen stretch
- sugar healy
- glenn lovett
- stephen tingay
- andrew obst
- kevin dyson
- andrew leoncelli
- shane woewodin
- cam bruce
- stephen powell
- travis johnstone
- james mcdonald
- brent moloney
- brock mclean

i think that oliver can be significantly better than all of them

If Brock McLean makes the list above, then surely players like Guy Rigoni and Paul Hopgood do as well. Did Flash play enough midfield to consider him as one?   Mentioning McLean in the same list as Jnr Mac, Stinger, Viney & Co is a huge insult to those genuine Melbourne mids.

Seriously McLean, you might as well throw in his mate Col Silvia as well.

Edited August 3, 20178 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

I was thinking More in terms of isolation over that last thirty years, so Robbie in his final year, Wilson in his twilight etc

McLean at his best - for about half a glorious season - was phenomenal 

12 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

well, it's 30 years since 87, i'd say since then our best mids have been, in order of what i think of as 'eras' of football before our current captain became our best mid:

- robbie
- brian wilson
- todd viney
- stephen stretch
- sugar healy
- glenn lovett
- stephen tingay
- andrew obst
- kevin dyson
- andrew leoncelli
- shane woewodin
- cam bruce
- stephen powell
- travis johnstone
- james mcdonald
- brent moloney
- brock mclean

i think that oliver can be significantly better than all of them

That's a pretty sad list.   I'd hate to see it compared to every other clubs best midfielders over the same period of time.

 

 

On 03/08/2017 at 8:28 AM, BAMF said:

Oliver vs Selwood at the same age.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=12&pid1=4166&fid1=O&playerStatus2=A&tid2=10&pid2=1725&fid2=O&type=A

Oliver beats him apart from frees received ?

No. Selwood also beats him for kicks and marks

He is Clayton Oliver.

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

He is Clayton Oliver.

I agree.

18 hours ago, DaisyDeeciple said:

Tingay, sliding doors though, this is if he didn't have that terrible accident, guy was a pure jet. Gerard Healy went ok too even if he did leave us. Oliver doesn't have a roof yet, that is pretty exciting.

Tingay's 94 was very good, not elite, but close. I think he was AA that year. And repped Victoria.

What accident are you referring to? I was young when he started so don't quite remember 

5 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

No. Selwood also beats him for kicks and marks

And ducks.

19 minutes ago, praha said:

Tingay's 94 was very good, not elite, but close. I think he was AA that year. And repped Victoria.

What accident are you referring to? I was young when he started so don't quite remember 

Bizarre accident where he fell backwards through a glass door and lacerated both his hammies and buttock. Had ongoing issues with hammies after that and was never the same player. Was a genuine fun but that shorted and limited his career. Happened with lots of our stars in the 90s

Edited August 4, 20178 yr by Lord Travis

43 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Bizarre accident where he fell backwards through a glass door and lacerated both his hammies and buttock. Had ongoing issues with hammies after that and was never the same player. Was a genuine fun but that shorted and limited his career. Happened with lots of our stars in the 90s

Nature of the club I reckon. Poor rehab and training facilities. Our best players always seemed injured. Jakovich goes out with a bad back and then retires...comes back for the Bulldogs 12 months later. Granted not the same player, and also he was a lazy trainer, but if he were at say a West Coast, he'd have come back at full strength and played 200 games. We were still an amateur club up until a few years ago. And by amateur I mean we struggled to make the transition from VFL to AFL. Oliver imo is the best talent we've had in my time following the club. Had he been at Melbourne in the 90s he'd be out every second week with hamstring problems.

Edited August 4, 20178 yr by praha

4 hours ago, praha said:

Nature of the club I reckon. Poor rehab and training facilities. Our best players always seemed injured. Jakovich goes out with a bad back and then retires...comes back for the Bulldogs 12 months later. Granted not the same player, and also he was a lazy trainer, but if he were at say a West Coast, he'd have come back at full strength and played 200 games. We were still an amateur club up until a few years ago. And by amateur I mean we struggled to make the transition from VFL to AFL. Oliver imo is the best talent we've had in my time following the club. Had he been at Melbourne in the 90s he'd be out every second week with hamstring problems.

Hi Praha, time difference missed your query, thanks LT, if I remember correctly there was nerve damage that could not be repaired I don't think it was a case of poor rehab to be fair.

11 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Bizarre accident where he fell backwards through a glass door and lacerated both his hammies and buttock. Had ongoing issues with hammies after that and was never the same player. Was a genuine fun but that shorted and limited his career. Happened with lots of our stars in the 90s

I thought it was his  left hand he lacerated and they removed some of his hamstring tendon to repair the damage... but it was a while ago now and my memory has never been that reliable.

the stories about how stinger did that falling thru the glass door are legendary

same with jako and how he did his back in

22 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

the stories about how stinger did that falling thru the glass door are legendary

same with jako and how he did his back in

please re jog my memory...

Has Clayton Oliver made Nate Jones redundant in the side?

Once he learns to take a few strides, off foot the opposition and kicks 50m to a leading forward he may make several of our players redundant!!!!!!

33 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Has Clayton Oliver made Nate Jones redundant in the side?

No, as Jones kicks the ball a fair bit. He's usually good for a goal or two as well. He's also versatile and can play outside or on a back flank if needed.

Different skill sets despite both being predominantly inside mids.

Zach Merrett set to be suspended and Martin on 2 fines. Could Oliver be a chance to Steven Bradbury the Brownlow?