Jack Watts

[Sir Why You Little 36,744]

19 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

As it should be, if any of this hearsay is actually true

He would have played earlier if it wasn't

coach was making a statement

[old55 23,047]

2 hours ago, Akum said:

Bont has been left out of both Dogs' JLTs so far & there's no problem there. At this time of the year, nobody really cares why.

There was no 'problem' with Watts until for some reason best known to themselves, the club leaked (for the first time since the advent of PJ) that he was being disciplined.

Most clubs would have dealt with this internally.

It's not a valid comparison.  Bont has had an injury, that's why he's been out and everyone knows that.  Everyone knows Jack is not injured and saying he is would come unstuck. 

[old55 23,047]

28 minutes ago, sue said:

I wouldn't employ you as a spin doctor then Nutbean.    I'm sure a decent PR team could come up with some more convincing BS than that.  The club chose not too, which is perhaps a plus. Time will tell.

I've heard this theory - give me an example of what YOU might have said.

[binman 42,148]

No spin required. Tbe club have handled wattgate pretty well in my book.

My only knock is goody should have got on rhe front foot and been clear from tbe get go (ie prior to the first jlt game) watts was not selected because of training standards. There was always going to be speculation because watts stirs strong emotions and that would have calmed things a bit

[sue 9,068]

19 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I've heard this theory - give me an example of what YOU might have said.

Well I'm no spin quack, but if I couldn't dodge the question completely (unusual) how about:  No truth in those rumours, Watts is in great nick and given his great form last year we reckon we can leave playing him till later in the JLT and try out some other  players who are more on the fringe.

Of course the best answer will depend on the exact question asked.  I expect whatever I invent, you can think of a different question needing a different answer.  I'd rather not spend the day pretending to be a spin doctor - it may ruin my few remaining moral fibres.

[old55 23,047]

2 minutes ago, sue said:

Well I'm no spin quack, but if I couldn't dodge the question completely (unusual) how about:  No truth in those rumours, Watts is in great nick and given his great form last year we reckon we can leave playing him till later in the JLT and try out some other  players who are more on the fringe.

Of course the best answer will depend on the exact question asked.  I expect whatever I invent, you can think of a different question needing a different answer.  I'd rather not spend the day pretending to be a spin doctor - it may ruin my few remaining moral fibres.

Yes that's a lie. Everyone inside the club would know it's a lie.  leoncelli36 showed that the club leaks a little so the lie would be exposed and we'd be deep in the doo-doo.

I think telling a limited truth is the best policy - I think the club has managed a very tricky situation really well.

[binman 42,148]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

No spin required. Tbe club have handled wattgate pretty well in my book.

My only knock is goody should have got on rhe front foot and been clear from tbe get go (ie prior to the first jlt game) watts was not selected because of training standards. There was always going to be speculation because watts stirs strong emotions and that would have calmed things a bit

I think the pr people call this getting out in front of the story

[watchtheeyes 1,416]

Just because I've somehow managed to avoid contributing to this topic despite 28 pages of banter, I thought I might give my 2 cents.

There's been a lot of conflicting stuff on this subject. There have been plenty of comments made by track watchers, not just Saty, about how good Watts has looked on the track, but then the club took the action it did. It didn't gel.

The article just put up on melbournefc.com.au quoting Jonesy prompted my new thought. At the end of last year, the club recognised his contribution and challenged him to go to a new level, hoping he could take a step up in to the elite category. At the start of pre-season Watts came back with the same level of intensity as he exhibited in pre-2016, this would be supported by his own words on camp... but to the club, this wasn't enough. The level that Watts returned at was great, or very good.. but the benchmark set was elite. It was his benchmark, entirely his to own.

For another player, if they had returned in the same way as Watts, it might've been fine.. They might've even played in one of the JLT games. But for Jack, in 2017, the level required was at the very top. Only set for the elite.

If this theory is to be believed, and given he is now supposedly at the level... then it is cause to be very excited about what he can produce in 2017.

Edited March 8, 2017 by watchtheeyes

[sue 9,068]

12 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Yes that's a lie. Everyone inside the club would know it's a lie.  leoncelli36 showed that the club leaks a little so the lie would be exposed and we'd be deep in the doo-doo.

I think telling a limited truth is the best policy - I think the club has managed a very tricky situation really well.

I don't disagree that limited truth telling is often the best policy.  But I disagree that just because it is a lie and the truth may be out there, that spin doesn't often work.  Either that or I've slept through about 50 years of elections.

[old55 23,047]

10 minutes ago, sue said:

I don't disagree that limited truth telling is often the best policy.  But I disagree that just because it is a lie and the truth may be out there, that spin doesn't often work.  Either that or I've slept through about 50 years of elections.

And how's spinning/lying working out for the political class?

[Gator 17,261]

21 minutes ago, watchtheeyes said:

Just because I've somehow managed to avoid contributing to this topic despite 28 pages of banter, I thought I might give my 2 cents.

There's been a lot of conflicting stuff on this subject. There have been plenty of comments made by track watchers, not just Saty, about how good Watts has looked on the track, but then the club took the action it did. It didn't gel.

The track watcher you're referring to thought Viney was below average last preseason and therefore didn't include him in his round 1 best 22.  Naturally, it was poor insight and Viney had his best year.

People put too much emphasis on amateur "track watchers".  I've been to training plenty of times myself and while reports are fun to read no real relevant insight into training standards is gleaned.  They're best for "who trained, who didn't and who is in rehab".  I'd never read anything more into them than that.

[watchtheeyes 1,416]

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The track watcher you're referring to thought Viney was below average last preseason and therefore didn't include him in his round 1 best 22.  Naturally, it was poor insight and Viney had his best year.

People put too much emphasis on amateur "track watchers".  I've been to training plenty of times myself and while reports are fun to read no real relevant insight into training standards is gleaned.  They're best for "who trained, who didn't and who is in rehab".  I'd never read anything more into them than that.

While I certainly rely on other dlanders to inform me of training behaviour given I live in Sydney, it was only a part of my assessment. I've been trying to make sense of it myself, and reading between the lines, posited the above theory.

By no means is it more right or wrong than any other theory, it's just that.. a theory. 

[Grapeviney 9,584]

1 hour ago, sue said:

But I disagree that just because it is a lie and the truth may be out there, that spin doesn't often work.  Either that or I've slept through about 50 years of elections.

The overuse and reliance on spin is one of the main reasons people are turning off the major political parties and flocking to straight-shooters such as Trump and Hanson. They're sick of the cliches and rehearsed lines and want plain-speaking politicians who mean what they say.

I've worked on both sides of the news fence (journalist and spin doctor) for 20+ years and like Fifty-5 reckon the club has handled it well. Only thing I would have done differently would have been, as Binman said, to come clean in week 1.

The alternatives would never have cut the mustard.

You can't pretend he's injured when he's in full training. You can't pretend you're giving fringe players a shot when you're selecting close to a full-strength side, and you can't pretend you're trying new things when it's clear the only new thing you're trying is not playing Watts. That would have been farcical.

The media commentary has been pretty subdued all things considered. Had we tried to cover it up, and then been exposed, then we would have had a full-blown PR crisis on our hands and endless speculation and articles. So far, the only place that's happened has been on here, which is to be expected. 

[Gator 17,261]

58 minutes ago, Grapeviney said:

The overuse and reliance on spin is one of the main reasons people are turning off the major political parties and flocking to straight-shooters such as Trump and Hanson. They're sick of the cliches and rehearsed lines and want plain-speaking politicians who mean what they say.

I've worked on both sides of the news fence (journalist and spin doctor) for 20+ years and like Fifty-5 reckon the club has handled it well. Only thing I would have done differently would have been, as Binman said, to come clean in week 1.

The alternatives would never have cut the mustard.

You can't pretend he's injured when he's in full training. You can't pretend you're giving fringe players a shot when you're selecting close to a full-strength side, and you can't pretend you're trying new things when it's clear the only new thing you're trying is not playing Watts. That would have been farcical.

The media commentary has been pretty subdued all things considered. Had we tried to cover it up, and then been exposed, then we would have had a full-blown PR crisis on our hands and endless speculation and articles. So far, the only place that's happened has been on here, which is to be expected. 

You have rare sense.

Alas, it still won't be enough for some.

[daisycutter 29,438]

with all the injuries, they are probably begging jack to play now......haha

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,222]

Next....

[Lucifers Hero 39,063]

4 hours ago, watchtheeyes said:

Just because I've somehow managed to avoid contributing to this topic despite 28 pages of banter, I thought I might give my 2 cents.

There's been a lot of conflicting stuff on this subject. There have been plenty of comments made by track watchers, not just Saty, about how good Watts has looked on the track, but then the club took the action it did. It didn't gel.

The article just put up on melbournefc.com.au quoting Jonesy prompted my new thought. At the end of last year, the club recognised his contribution and challenged him to go to a new level, hoping he could take a step up in to the elite category. At the start of pre-season Watts came back with the same level of intensity as he exhibited in pre-2016, this would be supported by his own words on camp... but to the club, this wasn't enough. The level that Watts returned at was great, or very good.. but the benchmark set was elite. It was his benchmark, entirely his to own.

Agreed, Jones comments put it in a new light. 

All the comments from the club had been that Watts had not met his KPI's so has not been selected.  Some people on this forum have interpreted the club's comments to mean he has slackened off, not done the work or came back for the preseason underdone/unfit.  And a great hue and cry has broken out on here as a result of those interpretations.   None of those interpretations have been substantiated.

Jones has made it clear Jack has not met the KPI's where the benchmark was raised to 'the next step' for Jack and go beyond what he achieved in 2016.  

Not getting to the next level is different to slackening off etc

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[jumbo returns 6,707]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He would have played earlier if it wasn't

coach was making a statement

You don't know the ins and outs

No-one does...but, I suppose it's never bothered the haters in the past

[Gator 17,261]

So instead of not training at the required "intensity" for a "few months" apparently he hasn't gone to a "new level" based on today's Nathan Jones interview.

The fantasy world some live in is incredible and driven by idolatry.  They'd convince themselves of anything if it suited their cognitive bias.   

PC egalitarian on display at its best.

Edited March 8, 2017 by ProDee

[Sir Why You Little 36,744]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

You don't know the ins and outs

No-one does...but, I suppose it's never bothered the haters in the past

Who said i was a hater?

remove the rose glasses Jumbo

JW got away with being in 3rd gear for years because the club was rubbish. 

Now Goodwin expects and demands more

[jumbo returns 6,707]

47 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Who said i was a hater?

remove the rose glasses Jumbo

JW got away with being in 3rd gear for years because the club was rubbish. 

Now Goodwin expects and demands more

Yes, and so he should

But, back to my point.....we, me, you, every poster, does not know the full story

Fantastical Ramone like frenzy....much ado about naught

[old55 23,047]

16 hours ago, ProDee said:

They'd convince themselves of anything if it suited their cognitive bias.   

Never a truer word said

[Gator 17,261]

32 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Never a truer word said

Took you a while to come up with that.

Wasn't worth it.

[ManDee 7,124]

20 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

The overuse and reliance on spin is one of the main reasons people are turning off the major political parties and flocking to straight-shooters such as Trump and Hanson. They're sick of the cliches and rehearsed lines and want plain-speaking politicians who mean what they say.

I've worked on both sides of the news fence (journalist and spin doctor) for 20+ years and like Fifty-5 reckon the club has handled it well. Only thing I would have done differently would have been, as Binman said, to come clean in week 1.

The alternatives would never have cut the mustard.

You can't pretend he's injured when he's in full training. You can't pretend you're giving fringe players a shot when you're selecting close to a full-strength side, and you can't pretend you're trying new things when it's clear the only new thing you're trying is not playing Watts. That would have been farcical.

The media commentary has been pretty subdued all things considered. Had we tried to cover it up, and then been exposed, then we would have had a full-blown PR crisis on our hands and endless speculation and articles. So far, the only place that's happened has been on here, which is to be expected. 

Oh my!

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

https://newrepublic.com/article/139025/trumps-lies-destroy-logic-well-truth

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-02/trump-supporters-will-still-vote-for-him-even-if-he-lies/8320100

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2017/feb/18/donald-trump-first-month-of-lies-video

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-speech-fact-check-lies-claims-joint-address-congress-jobs-immigration-pipeline-a7604861.html

Just for fun search  -Trump Lies - 104 million hits. or Pauline Hanson,

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/thefeed/article/2016/09/15/10-times-pauline-hanson-got-the-facts-wrong-her-maiden-speech

http://www.australianetworknews.com/pauline-hanson-lies-uncovered-everyday-australians-fact-check-racist-leader/

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely - Baron Acton  - 

Politicians lie, all of them.

[hardtack 10,434]

7 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Took you a while to come up with that.

Wasn't worth it.

At least he didn't see fit to start an entirely new topic in which to make his point.

Watts is playing tonght, so he obviously has met the coaches requirements - perhaps this topic can now be closed?