Hogan & Watts are locks, who will be our 3rd tall? Weideman, Pedo or Tim Smith?

Pedersen to start Weed by the end

It could be Vandenberg. 

5 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

It could be Vandenberg. 

Could be.. strong hands and loves tackling.

Given the fierce competition for spots, I don't see games being gifted to anyone just to get them more experience. I think Weed and Pedo will be competing on form. Vanders, Trac or Trenners are also options as mid-sized forwards who can play tall and that choice will likely depend on team structure and form as well. Going with 3 talls is really only an option because Watts is so versatile.

If Garland hits some form again, I wonder whether he might be another possibility. He didn't do too badly there when he was inch hitting a couple of years ago. He can certainly bring some defensive pressure.

5 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

 

If Garland hits some form again, I wonder whether he might be another possibility. He didn't do too badly there when he was inch hitting a couple of years ago. He can certainly bring some defensive pressure.

Garland was a forward in his younger days and did a good job when moved there for a game or two a few years back.

i wouldn't see him as a permanent forward, rather as a "surprise" forward. I think it was in a game against Collingwood (???) he took everyone by surprise and kicked  3 or 4.

Watts is too versatile, skillful and valuable as a link player between defence and attack and mid field play maker to be wasted as a tall forward. I nominate Vandenberg be the third tall to support Hogan in his role as a roving key forward and one from Weed (in time), Pedo, Hulett or Smith as stay at home strong forwards who can feed the crumbers and deny the opposition easy exits..

Three tall forwards was a Balme innovation in 1994 when we were blessed with Schwarz and Lyon as key tall forwards complemented by Pike in a forward pocket who could lead, take a pack mark, add toughness at ground level and kick goals. Vanders is our best bet in that role today.

45 minutes ago, Dee Dee said:

Garland was a forward in his younger days and did a good job when moved there for a game or two a few years back.

i wouldn't see him as a permanent forward, rather as a "surprise" forward. I think it was in a game against Collingwood (???) he took everyone by surprise and kicked  3 or 4.

Think it was against Essendon in Rd 10 of 2012. He kicked two or three. It was a low scoring game and our first win of the year.  I think Essendon were 8w & 1L at the time and either top or close to. We started their decline, which may have been co-incidental with the PEDs starting to backfire. What a magnificent win that was.

What is incomprehensible is, we beat them in 2012 and 2014 against the odds, but lost in 2015 and 2016 when we were big favourites. Hopefully that is the past.

Good call.   I reckon we can look forward to a big impact from AVDB in 2017.   Was massively impacted by injury last year.   In my mind we have 3 effectively additional recruits for next year in this category, AVDB,Salem and Brayshaw 

We need a backup for Max in the ruck so I think Pedo gets the nod as third tall. 

Max is a weapon not just for his ruckwork but also for his marking around the ground and his clever positioning and assistance to the littlies at his feet.

There are few other ruckman who are in the same league. Most just need neutralising that can be shared by Watts, Pederson and the stay at home tall.

A forward line needs three permanent talls to function to its maximum potential so I see Pedo as back up rotation from the bench with Max and the other tall forwards. Think of it as a five man tall team rotation.

I am a fan of Vanders up forward. He is 190+ cm, can mark well and is very physical and can rotate through the midfield. I think Watts will do some ruckwork like last year.

42 minutes ago, tiers said:

Watts is too versatile, skillful and valuable as a link player between defence and attack and mid field play maker to be wasted as a tall forward. I nominate Vandenberg be the third tall to support Hogan in his role as a roving key forward and one from Weed (in time), Pedo, Hulett or Smith as stay at home strong forwards who can feed the crumbers and deny the opposition easy exits..

Three tall forwards was a Balme innovation in 1994 when we were blessed with Schwarz and Lyon as key tall forwards complemented by Pike in a forward pocket who could lead, take a pack mark, add toughness at ground level and kick goals. Vanders is our best bet in that role today.

So Watts has finally found his niche as an AFL footballer and you want to move him????

something toughened him up last year and I recon it was stints in the ruck.

No move required. That is exactly how he played in 2016. That he sometimes ends up close to goal as a finisher does not alter his role. He knows where to go for maximum benefit and sometimes that can lead him to fill gaps in the forward line. He also fills gaps in the backline. That's what a link player does.

Apart from the centre bounce he plays no position. He plays a role.

3 hours ago, Bobby Clark said:

Hogan & Watts are locks, who will be our 3rd tall? Weideman, Pedo or Tim Smith?

Yes. Probably. 

Our resident brother of might give us an update as they are starting him off as a defender but I think Dec Keilty has to be a chance in the back up ruck role. He's more athletic than Pedda and stronger than Watts or the Weed. 

I enjoy Watts in the back up ruck role but don't think it's sustainable long term. So early in the year it will come down to Weed or Pedda as the best forward, but later in the year they might look for the best ruck to free Watts up.

2 hours ago, tiers said:

No move required. That is exactly how he played in 2016. That he sometimes ends up close to goal as a finisher does not alter his role. He knows where to go for maximum benefit and sometimes that can lead him to fill gaps in the forward line. He also fills gaps in the backline. That's what a link player does.

Apart from the centre bounce he plays no position. He plays a role.

Sorry but this is plain wrong. He most definitely was the second tall. 

The Bear for most of this year. Weid can do the job eventually (I reckon fact he could be the Roughy to Hogan's Buddy in the end) but he isn't there yet.

8 hours ago, binman said:

Sorry but this is plain wrong. He most definitely was the second tall. 

He definitely plays a lot of the game as a tall forward, rotating the lead up role with Hogan. However, he seems to have a license to move into defence whenever he feels there is a need. Obviously he plays the backup ruckman when required. I don't think it is a simple as saying he plays the second tall.

10 hours ago, chook fowler said:

I am a fan of Vanders up forward. He is 190+ cm, can mark well and is very physical and can rotate through the midfield. I think Watts will do some ruckwork like last year.

I seem to remember him, recurited as mature age, being listed as 188cm in his first season. I note you are correct Chook, he is listed on the site as 191 now. How did he grow 3cm in his mid 20's??

Edited December 19, 20168 yr by FlashInThePan

I reckon that a tall forward plays as a target for the midfielders. Either leading towards a team mate for a pass or standing under the ball in the middle of a pack to grab a mark, make a contest for the crumbers or restrict an easy exit.

Jack Watts dominant pattern of play was none of the above. He delivered into the forward line more than he received as a target. His ability to find space in the midfield between the arcs, win the ball and deliver into the forward line was his strength.

Just being tall and playing in the forward line does not a tall forward make.

Will Mitch Hannan be played exclusively as a lead up forward, or will he also rotate through the midfield/wing?

 

52 minutes ago, tiers said:

I reckon that a tall forward plays as a target for the midfielders. Either leading towards a team mate for a pass or standing under the ball in the middle of a pack to grab a mark, make a contest for the crumbers or restrict an easy exit.

Jack Watts dominant pattern of play was none of the above. He delivered into the forward line more than he received as a target. His ability to find space in the midfield between the arcs, win the ball and deliver into the forward line was his strength.

Just being tall and playing in the forward line does not a tall forward make.

That might have been how a tall forward played in 1979. Not now. All roam up the ground and play super mobile. Think nick reiwoldt. Even hogan played up the ground alot. And there are suggestions he will do even more of that next year.

All modern teams have both their talls play high and often as a link man. It creates space for the over the back goal rhat is a hallmark of footy atm.

This strategy is why traditional stay at home forwards like hawkins and cloke are struggling. It is also why tall forwards have to now be aerobic beasts.

Hogan and watts came 1st and 2nd in our goal kicking this year. Why? Because they were our two tall forwards.

As for watts playing down back, again even hogan found himself down there at times but rather than liscence to go there the general strategy is for watts to play a loose man down back for the last 3-4 minutes of almost every quarter. A very clever and effective strategy given how cool under pressure he is.

 

Edited December 19, 20168 yr by binman

14 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

It could be Vandenberg. 

Yes, if he plays like he did against Gold Coast late in the year. He single handedly got us back into the game with 3 big goals when we were looking down and out.

I reckon we won't recognise our forward line by round 11 next year. Tim Smith, Hannan and Johnstone look very able options to make our forward line very difficult for oppopsition teams to cover.

Hogan, Watts and Weideman and the three certainties, but Weideman might not get a go until a few rounds in. Considering previous training reports have had him practicing repeat leading and the when/where stuff, surely they are grooming him to be a regular. It looks like Goodwin wants to play really quick moving footy so Weideman's lighter frame might be a good fit, when he develops a tank. 

After those three the variations are endless: Kent, Garlett, Vandenberg, Tim Smith, Hulett, Joel Smith, JKH, Trengove, Pederson, Hannan, Harmes, Johnstone etc...