Training - Monday 14 November, 2016

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Appreciate the considered response and that someone could see where im coming from. Im not saying he has a problem or potting the kid, just that i wish for his improvement to be as fast as it can be, because he could be absolutely elite and i believe key to our improvement. He is capable of moments not many in the league can produce. This is what we need more of  and I actually love him to bits.

However, you can bet that there are players in the league in his bracket who are doing extra (and he may be too, I dont know). Whether that is Parish, Mills or Dunkley, thats what he is competing against, no point glossing over it.

We've all seen that the natural talent isnt always enough (sylvia says hello). We've been burnt before so i proceed with caution. The OP is a valid point. As someone who has never been able to get rid of it, I have immense respect for anyone who has.

Judging by the responses i must have struck a nerve? 

I don't think you struck a nerve as such, just that it's still too premature in his career and even this pre-season to be making judgement calls on his ability to run out a game.  Even last season he started the pre-season on a modified program after only being drafted in late November, so this is his first real crack at it.

I agree that running out games and building his tank is something he really needs to work on, but there is plenty of time for him to do that.  As I said in my earlier post, we might just need to be a little more patient than we'd like to be. 

[dieter 3,325]

17 minutes ago, DaisyDeeciple said:

I am a huge wrap for Oliver the player, and while he deserves a night off, I have to say he was loaded when I saw him at Garden State in Flinders Lane. Didn't chat to him but there was a strong breeze on the dance floor, wasn't mucking up otherwise and there was a bit of mutton dressed up as lamb there to make sure he wouldn't fall over.  

Also heard from a Wang man who was on North's list in Barrasi's  time that Mr O had a 'psycho' reputation with trainers and staff and coaches up north, that he needed constant affirmation and attention. I love the man's skills, apart from his Maloney-like bombs, and I'm just wandering why nobody but us rated him as a draft pick.Sounds like he might have a bit of 'shock therapy' to deal with before he becomes a real player.

[daisycutter 29,894]

21 minutes ago, dieter said:

Also heard from a Wang man who was on North's list in Barrasi's  time that Mr O had a 'psycho' reputation with trainers and staff and coaches up north, that he needed constant affirmation and attention. I love the man's skills, apart from his Maloney-like bombs, and I'm just wandering why nobody but us rated him as a draft pick.Sounds like he might have a bit of 'shock therapy' to deal with before he becomes a real player.

well given the number and quality of staff these days at an afl club (and mfc in particular) i don't think there is much chance he won't get enough nurture and attention. whole different world than what he would have faced in a junior country club.

[monoccular 17,653]

5 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Quick question, promise I'm not stirring the pot.

Billy Stretch vs Oscar McDonald. 

We've noticed in pictures Billy is looking a lot thicker and stronger through the upper body which has been backed up by Satyricon who has been told Billy has put on 4kg over the off-season. And I disagree that it's from 'eating more' only. Clearly he ha worked incredibly hard as well.

Billy is noted for his professionalism in the way that he trains. Not everyone on the list shares that trait. Oscar has come back from the off-season and looks like he is in pretty similar physical condition from an upper body perspective to last year, and one would think that increasing his upper body strength would be a priority considering his position and the lack of KPB we have on our list.

I want to know how much of this comes down to how hard the individual works during the off-season? I'm completely aware that not everyone finds it easy to put muscle mass on but I'm also accutely aware that if you're an animal in the way that you approach your training, it happens. Fyfe is an example. Our own Billy another. I also know that players have individualised programs but I do imagine both Billy and Oscar (as well as a host of others) need to be bigger and stronger next year.

Maybe I'm assuming coaches will say something they shouldn't. But I find it interesting that Billy is the only one who looks to have visibly changed his body shape over the off-season, given he is said to be one of our most professional and elite trainers.

 

 

Are you perhaps suggesting a similar program as the former Downlow medalist Jab undertook in his pre Downlow season? ?

[tiers 2,875]

At the 2015 family day at Luna Park, Brendon MacCartney explained to me that it now takes 5 years to develop an AFL footballer. Even though some might show show great promise in their first and second years they still need the time to develop with multiple pre-seasons and conditioning.

In his first season, Clarry has shown that he has the footy smarts to find the ball, dispose of it to advantage and hunt opponents. Speed, strength, tank and conditioning will follow gradually over the years. Do not expect too much too soon - give him time to develop properly.

The same applies to Gus, Trac, Oscar, Hunt, Salem, Jesse and Weid who would all suffer under the weight of unfair expectations. They are entitled to expect only encouragement and praise from us.

 

 

[Skuit 10,031]

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I think it's a more than valid point that you made and I was a bit disappointed as well. We know Weid's didn't have a huge tank before being draft and he was running well and put a gap to Clarry and never ended up too far from Salem. The trade off for Oliver battling is that big Sam is running well.

We also know Oliver had a long season starting the first NAB challenge game and going all the way through until being our best in the Casey VFL grand final in late September. So he's only had about 6 weeks and he deserves a mental and physical break in that time. He can do a lot between now and March to improve and it may have just been an off day.

Last year Brayshaw came off a big first year injured and then struggled with more injuries and his weight and lost most of the season really. This off season he got things together and seems to be in far better condition. Hogan is looking fit. Petracca is training instead of  rehabbing a foot/knee injury. I think these kids are on the right track and Oliver will get there too.

A perfectly measured response. Oliver worked his ass off just to get on our list and then ready himself for competitive AFL where he showed what he's worth. Had a massive first season coming from a long way back. So basically returning for his first proper pre-season without much of a break. Compare him then to other such players. And I don't doubt for a second  his commitment to the club and improving his game.

[dino rover 714]

10 hours ago, A F said:

As a guy who's six foot six and had trouble putting on muscle as a teenager, I'd say it's a lot easier to put muscle on a smaller frame than it is a much larger frame.

When I got to my early 20s, I started being able to put muscle on a bit more and now in my late 20s it's even easier. I suspect Oscar is struggling with his frame in a similar way. Doesn't mean he's not a lot stronger though. I used to be able to bench 95kg as a teenager and much to my annoyance it barely showed.

Being "cut" or defined and looking good and being strong are different arent they?

Compare body builders and weight lifters

Darker skin seems to show definition more than light if definition is in anyway relevant

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Churs for the replies.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Wasn't expecting Weid to begin bulking yet. He's been relaxing after just playing in a Casey grand final a number of weeks ago

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,049]

10 hours ago, tiers said:

At the 2015 family day at Luna Park, Brendon MacCartney explained to me that it now takes 5 years to develop an AFL footballer. Even though some might show show great promise in their first and second years they still need the time to develop with multiple pre-seasons and conditioning.

In his first season, Clarry has shown that he has the footy smarts to find the ball, dispose of it to advantage and hunt opponents. Speed, strength, tank and conditioning will follow gradually over the years. Do not expect too much too soon - give him time to develop properly.

The same applies to Gus, Trac, Oscar, Hunt, Salem, Jesse and Weid who would all suffer under the weight of unfair expectations. They are entitled to expect only encouragement and praise from us.

 

 

I've always preferred that we recruit footballers and turn them into athletes, rather than recruit athletes and try to turn them into footballers. It seems intuitively more likely that the first option has a greater chance of success. The ability to recruit Category B rookies is really where the "athletes who might become footballers" prospects belong.

[dpositive 1,819]

Crikey

I have never played at elite level, but have played a variety of sports with various levels of finals involvement.

its also a long time since I was 20 and so maybe it's not appropriate to comment but I always was(and still am) eager to keep playing (practising) to keep my condition.

I watched elite sports folk and went outside trying to emulate them (that's what changed most I now know I can't and haven't got the seemingly unlimited capacity I had). I would practice until I was exhausted and only then would I warm down and fuel up etc. This was all done within a context of performing all work and chore requirements while also maintaining social contacts. Social contacts were with fellow pretend athletes as we participated in physical contests.

i appreciate that the intensity and volumes of activity of our players are required to perform are way beyond mine but I find it hard to believe that any player would require a complete break unless injured or rehabilitating.

While I understand the need for rest and recreation leave from the rigours of work, and how a complete break can reinvigorate and revitalise, and how the risk of burnout or over exertion can be harmful, I hope that our players are being monitored to ensure they are building and tapering (and resting) to meet team performance requirements.

These blokes should be the fittest they will ever be and motivated to be involved in improving skill,fitness, endurance, reaction  and most importantly the ability to perform all these activities instinctively at the highest level when exhausted.

[hemingway 7,633]

10 hours ago, tiers said:

At the 2015 family day at Luna Park, Brendon MacCartney explained to me that it now takes 5 years to develop an AFL footballer. Even though some might show show great promise in their first and second years they still need the time to develop with multiple pre-seasons and conditioning.

In his first season, Clarry has shown that he has the footy smarts to find the ball, dispose of it to advantage and hunt opponents. Speed, strength, tank and conditioning will follow gradually over the years. Do not expect too much too soon - give him time to develop properly.

The same applies to Gus, Trac, Oscar, Hunt, Salem, Jesse and Weid who would all suffer under the weight of unfair expectations. They are entitled to expect only encouragement and praise from us.

 

 

Interesting. Clearly takes some years for a young player to develop. This is true with most if not all sports. A distance runner takes at least 5 years or more of interrupted training and competition before he or she hits their peak.

The problem for an AFL player is that there is greater injury risk and impact on game time. Also, the possibility of chronic injury problems and wear and tear increases from year to year.

What am i saying? I guess there is a intersecting point on the graph between the 5 year development point when theoretically a player hits their peak, and the period of time a player has left in the game due to injury etc. Many players are either on the decline or out of the game after 7-10 years.

It highlights the importance of the role of coaches, medical and preparation staff. It also raises other issues, such as whether or not it is sensible to recruit young players with preexisting injuries. It is also important to get the balance right between putting muscle on or bulking up, and maintaining the right ratio between body weight and athleticism. Too much muscle and weight puts pressure on joints. I suspect that someone like Oscar McDonald may have longer in the game than a Petracca.  Of course, it is problematic, but it is all about balance and maintaining a gradual individualized development plan for each player that takes into account a players own physical make-up and attributes, Injuries are going to happen, so having a list with high quality depth is paramount. And top quality staff. Hopefully, we now have a footy club with these things in place.

[Chris 2,892]

15 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I hope Collingwood's mountain has an active volcano at its peak.

Keep running lads, nearly there!

I don't, that would ruin my winter skiing!